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and thne there is this...

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James

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It's a shame because there is stuff to enjoy in ROH in Cobb, Rush, Lethal, the Briscoes and a couple of others but they had to bring all the strange uncles and cousins along.

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Hell, I thought the Bully Ray/Flip feud was great... Last year. And it had a perfect finish in December. 

There is a lot of talent in ROH, but it's also becoming very clear just how much Cody and the Bucks star power covered up (not that the bad booking was hidden, exactly, but it mattered less.)

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Overall loved the show, didn't watch it live since I want to sleep at nights.

Production had issues all along the show and I agree that RoH's stuff suffered more due to that, but do you people really watch RoH shows? I thought this was probably their best producing show that I saw in a while. Which is not to say that it was great, but RoH's presentation is usually very bland/bad so this, in my opinion, was a minor improvement. Basically my point is that if you watch RoH regularly and enjoy their content then I don't really get how you could be underwhelmed by what they delivered.

Rumble, don't care. Muta was a bit surprise, but other than that it was whatever like it always is. I think they said something about winner getting RoH title shot so Kenny winning it made sense.

Cobb/Ospreay was fun and I'm glad that Cobb won, but at the same time I don't feel like Cobb is really reaching that next level.

I loved Rush/Dalton. Like, I get it, if you paid money to see Rush and you got only 30 seconds of him killing Dalton then you might have reasons to be upset about whole thing. But it continues to build up Rush as a top guy that can kill you if you make a mistake and continues building Dalton's story with him slowly turning heel.

Women's match was ok, I probably will forget it couple of days later, but it was relatively short and I didn't mind it. Post match angle I thought was also kinda okay, but it dragged too long. Should have happened faster.

Street fight was a mess, but thats what was expected considering who were involved with it. Haskins, Shane and Silas not being in Rumble also kinda gave away, at least to me, that this isn't going to be a simple 1vs1 match. On the positive side, good to hear that Flip's injury was a work.

Jr. three-way was high spots sprint and it worked, but I would have preferred Dragon Lee/Ishimori. Thou it looks like we'll still get and it probably will have more focus on some Dontaku card than it did here so maybe it's all good in the end.

4-way tag match was whatever honestly. I think it might be my least favourite match after the rumble. Two confusing angles at the end didn't help things either.

Loved Tanahashi/ZSJ, but I really hoped that Tanahashi would win. It would have nicely led to rematch at later date with some filler in between. But whats next now for both of them?

Naito/Ibushi was great. They had some weird stuff as others have mentioned, but it didn't really detract from the match. I wonder, maybe Ibushi/ZSJ comes out of this and eventually Ibushi/Ospreay for that UK show?

Liked RoH world title match, but probably would have liked it more if it was a bit shorter. Loved that Taven won in the end, was afraid that they'll be afraid to finally crown him due to massively pro-Marty crowd, but it was right decision and I'm interested to see in whats going to happen next.

Main event was great even if it is not clear whats next for Okada.

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Okada's end game is Naito I think. It'll be interesting to see how they get there, particularly in the G1. Do they quickly run it for Dominion and possibly do another at WK? It's the biggest match they have right now other than Ibushi/Okada now that Ibushi is one of their own.

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I had a good time, but that card was much longer than it had to be.  It really seemed like everyone was there for the NJPW guys because there was some real silence during some of the ROH offer matches.  But, crowd got to yell "Kaze Ni Nare", I got to see Jushin Thunder Liger one more time before he calls it quits, got the big surprise of seeing Muta in MSG before he finally hangs it up.  I'm guessing Enzo and Cass is a Bully Ray call, yeah it may get eyes on the product but Enzo has big time fuck you heat and he can't work, I can only imagine how long it is before he gets thrown out of the locker room of someone just beats the piss out of him for being terrible.

 

I was kind of disappointed I didn't see programs for the event.  They were selling a poster for the card and t's, but I was kind of hoping for a legit program and I didn't see it at the 3 or 4 merch stands I passed in the part of the building we were in.

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I haven't gotten around to watching Okada/White yet (or the ladder match but I wasn't really planning on watching that anyway especially after watching the video package for it, no interest here) but man ROH's stuff was pretty rough to watch. The NJPW matches were the good stuff though. Was surprised that Cobb won figured Osprey's push was gonna have him take both belts but glad this means we get Cobb in NJPW more, I'll take him over Elgin as beefy foreigner. The Bully Ray stuff went on way too long and it felt like time was crawling by which is hard to do for what should have been a crazy brawl. The women's match was fine probably too long and the after match stuff was a time drag too. Tag match was ok would have preferred a straight up match between the Briscoes and either LIJ or GoD. The Enzo/Cass stuff was weird like seeing Enzo getting punched full in the face though. The Jr Heavy match was fun but ultimately empty, liked Dragon Lee winning which should set up a rematch with Hiromu when he's back. ZSJ/Tana was good not as good as there previous matches but still a solid effort. Kota/Naito was pretty damn good I figured Kota was winning so I was prepared for Naito's loss so that didn't take anything down for me. 

NJPW needs to handle the broadcast production themselves for any possible future times they do big joint shows with RoH again. The missed shots throughout the show was pretty bad and the pacing of the show was not great. NJPW did good with their matches, RoH made things drag or their guys just didn't show me much. I do hope Bandido is in Best of the Super Jrs this year he's fun to watch. 

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Not directly related, but supposedly Bullet Club block part was actually a thing and lots of people showed up:

 

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Kind of a disaster of a show, honestly and, though not as long as Mania, the pacing was just really awful and I think the fact that ROH does WWE/Impact style story-telling is so incongruous with what ROH is still associated with historically. Like, in my head I still expect them to be a workrate indy like Rev Pro or something and instead they are a sports entertainment company doing sports entertainment things that occasionally has the most talented wrestlers in the world parachuting in for major shows. It's really schizophrenic.  

- Rumble wasn't as much fun as I wanted it to be. At least on the feed I had they dubbed Kaze Ni Nare out so that kind of killed it. Would it have killed them to have put Liger over? You can't get him for a match against Taven? Isn't Kenny King a heel anyway? Also, if you want to put Kenny King over just have him win strong. The dopey heel flukes his way into a battle royale win is so garbage. The Muta vs Liger face-off was wild, though. 

- Cobb vs Will was wild. Opspreay is one of the more oddly booked major stars in wrestling as he loses a lot. Cobb in NJPW is a great thing as he's a perfect fit and an upgrade over Elgin, at least morally and aesthetically if not in-ring. I find it amusing that the commentators avoid joking that he was literally an undead monster who ate people on a national wrestling show. 

- Rush vs Castle was perfect for what it needed to be tho quick, unexpected squashes also becoming an overused trope. Assume they are building to Rush vs Taven?

- Women's match was fine. First time seeing Klein and she has a good look at least. 

- I mean, I dug the Beautiful People back in the day and the entrance is always worth a watch but I dunno,. I mean, as Impact as shown with Scarlett and WWE has shown with Lacey and even Lana - there is a place for the somewhat throwback "sexy character" as a contrast/foil to the rest of the sports oriented women's roster. That is a story you can tell as long as the people doing the T and A stuff can back it up in the ring and as long as it doesn't veer into Russo Land. Very little hope about this, though, and with Velvet's relationship with Bully and Mandy Leon's assumed relationship with Delirious (at least as of a few years ago) it just is a really bad look to bring them in like this at this spot.  

- Six man was underwhelming though the ECW plunder brawl always gets over. The Flip/Bully story seemed over so this felt like a rehash. I'm kind of tired of the "Bully is a great heel" stuff though. He eats people up on the mic and, yeah, he sells and usually loses the big spots but it doesn't mean anything moving forward. Like, it's a bit of the Kevin Nash thing where he'll lose a match but it doesn't seem like the other guy really gets anything out of it and Bully is right back to his same schtick immediately after. I'm not doing  a great job explaining but it's something I noticed for years with him.  

- Junior three way was nuts and needed another five minutes. Dragon Lee winning makes me happy as it tells me Hiromu is coming home soon. 

- Tag four-way was good. PCO and King are great. It's another match that needed more time. GOD winning is...fine. They're a fine enough team. 

- I'm torn on Enzo and Cass. Okay - they are both terrible people. I mean, Cass basically got fired for harassing his ex and beating up a midget. Bad dude. Enzo is a like DDP if DDP did a lot of cocaine instead of yoga. Bad dude. Bad rapper. With the sexual assault allegation, I'm not gonna make some grand pronouncement. The case didn't move forward and I know there was a lot of stuff being floated around. Would I be shocked if he was guilty? Nope. Do I know he is? Nope and I'm cool with staying neutral on that. I don't blame anyone though for having a stronger side on this. So, they are awful people. However, it's wrestling. Awful people been drawing money for centuries. Awful people still allowed to work. Are they an over act? For sure. At their best, they were fun enough in the ring, too. I dunno...I'm not gonna condemn the company for bringing them in but I'd expect it to blow up in their face. And, not gonna lie, them against the Briscoes or against PCO and King sounds fun.  

- Zack and Tana was a bit underwhelming. I'm not sure Zack's stuff plays as well in the big arenas and at this point in the show people are getting tired and not really in the mood for technically proficient grappling. 

- Ibushi vs Naito was a masterpiece. Just such a crazy, beautiful match. Really wish it had been in a main event slot in Japan as I think the pathos and emotion would have been higher. Ibushi is such a strange, beautiful superstar. It feels like he connects on such a deeper level than a lot of wrestlers. I hope they run this match a few more times the rest of the year. 

- Taven's theme is a banger but not putting the belt on Marty one of the dumber moves in a long time. Ladder matches can also kind of go away for a while, too. I mean, you know the gimmick is played out when even the WWE managed to not have one this weekend. 

- Okada vs White was very good. A bit long, though. 

Full speed ahead to Naito vs Okada III at the Dome. Bet ya the other dome headliner is Tanahashi vs Ibushi too. 

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I can't imagine what a slog it must've been for the folks going to G1, hauling ass to Jersey City for JJSB3, and then doing a 7-hour Mania later that day. Getting tired just thinking of it.

Live the G1 highs were really, REALLY high (Naito/Ibushi, Cobb/Ospreay, juniors 3-way and a fun, chaotic, well-laid out Rumble), but I was seriously fading by the end. I'd been joking that it was like if Frank Goodman somehow got the book. I hope they come back down the line because it'd be a shame for guys like Rush where a 30 second squash amounts to his entire MSG experience. Ditto Castle, although he's obviously too banged up to have gone out there at all.

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I think the next Dome headliners are Kenny-Kota and Okada-Naito, I am stamping this prediction MON APR 8 19hr22 10 degrees celsius 2mph wind overcast

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Even if you only went to the three "big" shows this weekend, you got a 3.5 hour TakeOver, a 5.5 hour Supercard, and a 7.5 hour WrestleMania.

That's gotta cause some serious burnout. Even before your Bloodsports, Spring Breaks, Penis Parties, etc.

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14 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

I think the next Dome headliners are Kenny-Kota and Okada-Naito, I am stamping this prediction MON APR 8 19hr22 10 degrees celsius 2mph wind overcast

Kenny won't be crawling back until at least 2021 when Papa Khan decides to stop letting Tony burn money on a lark.

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Yeah I don't see Kenny being back for the next WK unless AEW is a colossal failure out of the gate or if the landscape of NJPW's outside company relationships drastically changes suddenly which I don't see happening either. Naito/Okada is probably gonna be the main and some combination of Kota, Tana and White will be there for the IC belt or maybe Osprey if he has a big break through this summer.

Does anyone else think Scurll might be the cause of a bidding war? I know he's probably a lock for AEW but I imagine RoH won't let him go easily and I wouldn't be surprised if NJPW and WWE make a play for him as well. I know the Elite guy believe in their goal but I do think that Marty is gonna get offers he wouldn't have before and atleast WWE will be able to offer him more guaranteed money than anyone else and that's gotta be a hard decision to make.

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Posted (edited)

If ROH wanted to try to convince Marty to stay, putting the title on him would have been a good start. The guy is the more over than anyone else in ROH. He'd still be a reason for Elite fans to watch and spend money on ROH. Matt Taven is fine as a wrestler, but boy is he bland. Nothing he does is memorable, and this version of the Kingdom feels like such a bush league act.

I don't know how hard Marty's decision will be. Adam Page got offered main roster money to be a focal point of NXT, and he turned it down. The Elite are going to make their money anyway. They seem like they rather do it their way, work with their friends, and be happy. From what gets reported, WWE sure seems like it can be a soul crushing environment. *If it were me, I'd avoid WWE like the plague.

*Yes, that was intentional.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie

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One issue is that his significant other is in WWE so that could be a factor. His size is an issue but if they threw main roster money at him to help anchor the UK brand or give him a similar deal that WALTER has I could see how tempting that is.

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1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Yeah I don't see Kenny being back for the next WK unless AEW is a colossal failure out of the gate or if the landscape of NJPW's outside company relationships drastically changes suddenly which I don't see happening either.

Your logic and reason has no place here pal, I've stamped it.

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2 hours ago, Raziel said:

Kenny won't be crawling back until at least 2021 when Papa Khan decides to stop letting Tony burn money on a lark.

Kenny can come back now. He and Jericho have it in their contract that they can work NJPW.

 

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17 hours ago, Rev Ray said:

I had a good time, but that card was much longer than it had to be.  It really seemed like everyone was there for the NJPW guys because there was some real silence during some of the ROH offer matches.  But, crowd got to yell "Kaze Ni Nare", I got to see Jushin Thunder Liger one more time before he calls it quits, got the big surprise of seeing Muta in MSG before he finally hangs it up.  I'm guessing Enzo and Cass is a Bully Ray call, yeah it may get eyes on the product but Enzo has big time fuck you heat and he can't work, I can only imagine how long it is before he gets thrown out of the locker room of someone just beats the piss out of him for being terrible.

 

I was kind of disappointed I didn't see programs for the event.  They were selling a poster for the card and t's, but I was kind of hoping for a legit program and I didn't see it at the 3 or 4 merch stands I passed in the part of the building we were in.

There was a program. Was considering getting it but I already have too much junk as it is.

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I have the feeling that Marty is going to WWE. While going to AEW sounds logical I wonder what his role there really would be. They got Kenny, Jericho, Cody and PAC. And it feels like they are building Page to be their new main guy. Then you got Bucks, Best Friends, Lucha Bros in tag division. And I'm sure that Pentagon and Fenix will get occasional single title shot as well. Point is that he might be midcard player in AEW while WWE might make him a main player in NXT.

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the DAVEs

dark women tag 2.25
Honor Rumble (incredibly long write up and then...) 1
Cobb-Ospreay 4
Rush-Castle no rating
WOH 2
Bully Ray Introducing Emzo D'Amore & Brig Cazz 1.5
jr 3-way 4
quad tag 3.5
Rev Pro 4
IC title 4.5
ROH ladder 3.5
IWGP HEBBYKYU 4.75

Generous on most. That makes Jay White's best match by my reckoning of both Dave's scores and my actual opinion.

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