Marvel - Everything Else - 2019

[Eivion]

3 hours ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Early Reviews are in. They are..... not good.

I've seen people ask how they did the Dark Phoenix story worse then Last Stand. That's bad.

Well considering the trailers made it obvious it was redoing the Phoenix story from the Last Stand opposed to the comics that isn't super shocking. I do suspect though that there is some bs hyperbole going on there. 

[odessasteps]

They should just end the Xmen Universe by having Phoenix wipe out the whole galaxy, like in that What If issue. 

[J.T.]

4 hours ago, odessasteps said:

They should just end the Xmen Universe by having Phoenix wipe out the whole galaxy, like in that What If issue. 

That would be the best ending visual ever and it would probably traumatize everyone who watched it.

Edited June 5, 2019 by J.T.

[Craig H]

4 hours ago, Eivion said:

Well considering the trailers made it obvious it was redoing the Phoenix story from the Last Stand opposed to the comics that isn't super shocking. I do suspect though that there is some bs hyperbole going on there. 

I don't think so regarding the bs hyperbole. They test screened the movie three times and after each time it scored as low as it possibly could. Each test screening lead to more editing and reshoots. The word from those screenings was that this was indeed the same thing as Last Stand.

Also keep in mind that Simon Kinberg, the writer on Dark Phoenix, also wrote Last Stand. This is also the first movie he's directing. From most accounts, he went back to what he already did. And Kinberg isn't the worst writer, but he's only written 2, maybe 3 good movies. Those are Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Sherlock Holmes, and Days of Future Past. His misses are giantic though, and those include xXx State of the Union, X3 Last Stand, Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter, Fant4stic Four (yeah, the ultra shitty newer one), X-Men Apocalypse, and now this.

I don't think there's any hyperbole here.

[Eivion]

40 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I don't think so regarding the bs hyperbole. They test screened the movie three times and after each time it scored as low as it possibly could. Each test screening lead to more editing and reshoots. The word from those screenings was that this was indeed the same thing as Last Stand.

Also keep in mind that Simon Kinberg, the writer on Dark Phoenix, also wrote Last Stand. This is also the first movie he's directing. From most accounts, he went back to what he already did. And Kinberg isn't the worst writer, but he's only written 2, maybe 3 good movies. Those are Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Sherlock Holmes, and Days of Future Past. His misses are giantic though, and those include xXx State of the Union, X3 Last Stand, Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter, Fant4stic Four (yeah, the ultra shitty newer one), X-Men Apocalypse, and now this.

I don't think there's any hyperbole here.

The hyperbole to me is worse than the Last Stand. I'm sure its bad, but I just can't imagine it being worst the the Last Stand which had so many damn misfires it wasn't even funny. I'm too afraid to actually watch it and confirm one way or the other personally. So is an brave on the board going to watch this?

[Craig H]

lol that's what I want to know. Who of us is going to go see Dark Phoenix? Surely one of us will be the canary in the coal mine.

 

[Brian Fowler]

I'll more than likely end up seeing it.

[EVA]

I saw an interesting interview with Matthew Vaughn recently where he said that, after FIRST CLASS, he wrote 2 more films as part of a trilogy, with DOFP as the finale.  Apparently, Fox loved the DOFP script so much (rightfully so), that they decided to make it as the 2nd film instead, despite Vaughn warning them that there would be nowhere to go after that.  It was a big reason why he walked away.

Turns out he was correct.

I want to see the script for that second movie now.

[Eivion]

That is interesting. I'm curious what the second film would have been. That said, I don't really think the issue was doing DOFP next. I would say the bigger issue was trying to do Apocalypse so early and keeping so much focus on the First Class crew instead of spending a full movie establishing the newbies.

[Casey]

17 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I still don't understand how Apocalypse gets ranked down with those two. I mean, it wasn't great, but it was on around the same level as First Class.

Anyway, this film had massive reshoots, got rescheduled, only to find out another superhero movie had nearly the exact same climax (Captain Marvel is the going theory) leading to them completely redoing the climax in a second round of reshoots...

So, I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not surprised it's not getting good reviews.

It's a shame though. It would be nice if the franchise could go out with a bang.

The ending to me is more reminiscent of Endgame.

[Matt D]

5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'll more than likely end up seeing it.

Hero

[Brian Fowler]

42 minutes ago, Casey said:

The ending to me is more reminiscent of Endgame.

Well, they at least allegedly dumped the entire climatic finish because it was too much like a different movie, and nobody has confirmed but it's believed to be Captain Marvel.

Basically Jean becoming a glowing energy field and destroying spaceships and what not

So if it does now resemble Endgame that's kinda hilarious

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, Eivion said:

That is interesting. I'm curious what the second film would have been. That said, I don't really think the issue was doing DOFP next. I would say the bigger issue was trying to do Apocalypse so early and keeping so much focus on the First Class crew instead of spending a full movie establishing the newbies.

In the interview, he made it sound like Tom Hardy would play a young Wolverine and the villain would have been Apocalypse with the third movie being DoFP. He also definitely sounded like Fox wanting to do DoFP first was why he left because movie executives have zero understanding of pacing and he didn't want to be a part of a trilogy where it would end as flatly as Apocalypse did.

And then of course he jumped right over to Kingsman so it's not like he didn't have a plan B in the waiting. It probably made it even easier for him to jump off of X-Men.

[AxB]

Kingsman 2 wasn't as disappointing as Kick-Ass 2. But it wasn't as good as Kingsman 1 either. What is it with Mark Millar franchise sequels?

[Craig H]

I liked Kingsman 2 quite a bit, but yeah, it was nowhere near as good as Kingsman. Kingsman is hard to top and it still surprises me when people say they haven't seen it. My reaction is always like, "oh shiiiit, you're missing out. There's a Freebird scene that's one of the most batshit insane things I've ever seen in a movie and there ending is...mind blowing."

[TheVileOne]

I love the first Kingsman but I found Kingsman 2 to be utterly awful. Like that scene with the tracking device, what the hell even was that? Why was Channing Tatum even in the movie? His character did next to nothing.

It's a good case of why you should quit while you're ahead instead of trying to make a franchise out of everything.

Anyway, Dark Phoenix is the worst X-Men movie of all time. Simon Kinberg should never be allowed to adapt another comic book movie ever again. He was allowed to butcher the Phoenix Saga not just once, but twice.

They were so secretive about the alien invaders and Chastain in the movie. They are named and revealed in a throwaway scene in a throwaway line. They have no development. I can't believe Jessica Chastain signed onto this knowing what the final product with this character would be. Such a waste. 

Here's what offends me about Dark Phoenix the most.

When Mystique and Beast are out in public, they take on their blue forms. The moment Mystique steps into the X-Mansion she transforms into blonde Jennifer Lawrence form. Why? Why is this Mystique no longer proud of her true form? Why does she feel she needs to assume a fake form in front of her students, her teammates and her lover?

She has a scene where she's alone with Beast and they are both in human form. Why? It's never explained. How is Beast able to transform from a human to a Beast at will whenever he wants? It's never explained, along with the fact that he still looks 20 years old 30 years later after First Class. 

Anyway, Disney never should've allowed this to be released.

Edited June 6, 2019 by TheVileOne

[Eivion]

6 hours ago, Craig H said:

In the interview, he made it sound like Tom Hardy would play a young Wolverine and the villain would have been Apocalypse with the third movie being DoFP. He also definitely sounded like Fox wanting to do DoFP first was why he left because movie executives have zero understanding of pacing and he didn't want to be a part of a trilogy where it would end as flatly as Apocalypse did.

And then of course he jumped right over to Kingsman so it's not like he didn't have a plan B in the waiting. It probably made it even easier for him to jump off of X-Men.

Honestly that doesn't sound much better, and I'm not a big fan of First Class so I'm kind of happy Vaughn left. I don't think things would have been much better with him around, just annoying and/or bad in different ways.

[The Natural]

18 hours ago, Craig H said:

lol that's what I want to know. Who of us is going to go see Dark Phoenix? Surely one of us will be the canary in the coal mine.

 

Great description!

I'm not going. I've only seen 4/12 X-Men films at the cinema. I either didn't fancy going or I was poorly.

Edited June 6, 2019 by The Natural

[Doc Townsend]

On 6/5/2019 at 11:37 AM, Craig H said:

lol that's what I want to know. Who of us is going to go see Dark Phoenix? Surely one of us will be the canary in the coal mine.

 

Most of us still watch WWE.  The only thing that keeps us from being the canary in the coal mine is that we've built up a tolerance to the gas.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Well, Dark Phoenix has a 22% on RT (and a 43 on Metacritic) on Opening Day. 

This seems like something I'll watch later this month when I can get a free ticket and it's rainy and I've got nothing to do.  And I'll probably still hate it.  

[Brian Fowler]

I'm not going to say it was particularly good, but any critic who writes it was worse than Last Stand or XO:W shouldn't be a critic.

[Eivion]

14 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'm not going to say it was particularly good, but any critic who writes it was worse than Last Stand or XO:W shouldn't be a critic.

So my suspicions about those comments being ridiculous hyperbole were accurate, then? 

[Brian Fowler]

1 minute ago, Eivion said:

So my suspicions about those comments being ridiculous hyperbole were accurate, then? 

It's not any worse than Apocalypse or First Class.

Actually, I liked it more than either of those two.

[Hail Sabin]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:12 AM, TheVileOne said:

I love the first Kingsman but I found Kingsman 2 to be utterly awful. Like that scene with the tracking device, what the hell even was that? Why was Channing Tatum even in the movie? His character did next to nothing.

It's a good case of why you should quit while you're ahead instead of trying to make a franchise out of everything.

Anyway, Dark Phoenix is the worst X-Men movie of all time. Simon Kinberg should never be allowed to adapt another comic book movie ever again. He was allowed to butcher the Phoenix Saga not just once, but twice.

They were so secretive about the alien invaders and Chastain in the movie. They are named and revealed in a throwaway scene in a throwaway line. They have no development. I can't believe Jessica Chastain signed onto this knowing what the final product with this character would be. Such a waste. 

Here's what offends me about Dark Phoenix the most.

When Mystique and Beast are out in public, they take on their blue forms. The moment Mystique steps into the X-Mansion she transforms into blonde Jennifer Lawrence form. Why? Why is this Mystique no longer proud of her true form? Why does she feel she needs to assume a fake form in front of her students, her teammates and her lover?

She has a scene where she's alone with Beast and they are both in human form. Why? It's never explained. How is Beast able to transform from a human to a Beast at will whenever he wants? It's never explained, along with the fact that he still looks 20 years old 30 years later after First Class. 

Anyway, Disney never should've allowed this to be released.

The Mystique answer is probably Jennifer Lawrence didn't want to do the makeup and at some point wanted her face in the movie. You could tell she didn't want to be in the movie but did it for the money or because her contract made her. You could also make the case she didn't want to be famous and because of Xavier everyone knows her blue face but they don't know her JLaw face so she was more comfortable in it with her Family. That last sentence might be giving Simon too much credit. 

The main issue people will have with the movie is the lack of action scenes and it's more of a dramatic movie with some action in it. 

[Brian Fowler]

Apparently the script originally had the aliens be Skrulls, and it might be that they were so secretive because they didn't know who they were going to be until late in the game.

And, can you imagine if this had come out on time last year and it had Skrulls and Jean blowing up an alien armada while glowing multiple colors of energy?