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NXT Takeover: New York - 4/5/2019

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3 hours ago, crazypook said:

A separate issue—I feel like I must be crazy, but I don’t accept Johnny as a baby face after the way everything has played out. Am I crazy? Did I miss something? Just because he got the drop on Ciampa when he tried to turn on him again? Or because of his injury/surgery? Are we supposed to just forget about Johnny being a dickhead for 6 months? He never apologized or actually turned or anything. I don’t get it at all.

I re-watched a couple matches this morning with a fresh mind and I still didn't like the main event because this. What exactly did Johnny do to not be a dick anymore? Nothing. It similar to Rollin's face turn, he didn't really do anything besides get screwed over by The Authority after taking every advantage that was given to him. And it's not like Johnny is a guy that's self absorbed and doesn't care about the fans he loves all that shit.

And I think the issue with Mauro's references are that 1, they're getting longer and he has to explain them and if you have to explain your reference, then it's a bad reference. Graves can drop a lyric or song title and it works fine because it's quick and if you get it, bonus and if not, it'll pass right by you without too much issue.

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5 hours ago, maciej said:

I don't follow wrestling twitter thaaaat widely I guess, and I'm not surprised that people liked this match more than me but I am genuinely a little shocked that the range of opinions stretches THIS far in the positive range.

Well, it's basically a full blend of two of the most divisive styles in wrestling, the PWG "Go Go Go" style and the WWE "overblown epic"

So I can see how that causes a divide. 

(Basically, it was a much faster paced version of a '00s HBK match, except with wrestlers who are actually good at doing that style.)

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4 hours ago, jaedmc said:

 

You might not like it. Riddle kind of falls into that Angle trap where he's clearly great at chain wrestling because of his background, but there's no real wearing down or limbwork. Instead it's a lot of just throwing bombs and fighting spirit, and the subs are put in for pops and false finishes. I think he german suplexes Dream on the floor like mid match. I may even be misremembering that, but the fact that I'm uncertain instead of going "Holy shit they did this german suplex on the floor spot" probably says more than any critique I can give.

 

I like Dream's character more, but Riddle impressed me with his athleticism (first time I've seen him wrestle in full)  I don't think jaedmc's comparing Riddle to Kurt Angle was a compliment (and I'm not disputing the comparison), but I actually think that's exactly why he could  (emphasis on "could") work on the main roster, especially if they go the frat bro/elite athlete heel version at first.

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Regarding Cole, I think his charisma, ability to cut one hell of a promo, and HBK-lite in ring ability will overcome any issues with his height.

That said, if he were as big as, say, Steve Austin or Bret Hart, then WWE would be sitting on a gold mine, but only if creative stays out of his way and just lets Cole be himself.

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I want to point out one hell of a line by Nigel during Pete / Walter when Pete was going for a triangle / finger break with Walter on the top rope. As soon as Walter starts to reverse it, and you know where it’s going, Nigel lets out this exasperated

“What have you done?!”

Then big ass top rope powerbomb.

line of the night.

 

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12 minutes ago, _MJ_ said:

I like Dream's character more, but Riddle impressed me with his athleticism (first time I've seen him wrestle in full)  I don't think jaedmc's comparing Riddle to Kurt Angle was a compliment (and I'm not disputing the comparison), but I actually think that's exactly why he could  (emphasis on "could") work on the main roster, especially if they go the frat bro/elite athlete heel version at first.

Sometimes that style works. I've enjoyed plenty of Angle matches. And I even enjoy Riddle to an extent. Sometimes it feels like it's "here's the spots that get pops in other matches let's put that in here", without it making a lot of sense or mattering. Both have tons of talent and aptitude for wrestling.  Riddle's bro character could maybe work in the same way that Angle's goofy stuff worked, in which he's silly but kills people because he's legit.

The only shortcoming I see with Riddle is talking. It feels like it's an effort for him to form sentences and follow what people are saying. that could possibly work if he leans into it and makes it apart of the act. 

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While I enjoy working something over or making something work in the context of a story, I buy Riddle's style for the many times he can make it look like he's a fighter who's legitimately finding an opening and throwing whatever he can on a guy. That could change as time goes on and I get more used to the spots he's throwing, but I dig it right now. 

Also helps that Riddle getting more frustrated and douching it up as the match went on provided plenty of narrative. 

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That’s probably the best WWE show ever.

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Oh and since we were talking about it way earlier in the thread - the wiki match time for the Tag Title match has been changed to 21 minutes

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I can see all of the reasons people loved the main. But I think that's the reason it didn't do much for me: I could SEE all of the seams and transitions. Nothing felt organic. Cole, especially, has a bad habit of kind of shuffling his way into position for the next spot, and there were so many little moments that stood out in a bad way, like Johnny conspicuously looking over his shoulder for the UE run-in right before they appear. It felt like two guys running through a stage play. The Ciampa moment at the end - even though I still liked seeing the emotion of it - reinforced that feeling.

On the other hand, I loved the shit out of the tag match, and it was super choreographed and convoluted as well. So what do I know.

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19 hours ago, jaedmc said:

Sometimes that style works. I've enjoyed plenty of Angle matches. And I even enjoy Riddle to an extent. Sometimes it feels like it's "here's the spots that get pops in other matches let's put that in here", without it making a lot of sense or mattering. Both have tons of talent and aptitude for wrestling.  Riddle's bro character could maybe work in the same way that Angle's goofy stuff worked, in which he's silly but kills people because he's legit.

The only shortcoming I see with Riddle is talking. It feels like it's an effort for him to form sentences and follow what people are saying. that could possibly work if he leans into it and makes it apart of the act. 

There's a sweet spot with Riddle as an Angle/RVD hybrid that could work really well on the main roster. Ridiculously athletic, legit mat background, goofy stoner (but one, unlike RVD, who can project menace and seems invested in winning rather than just showing off). I'm not convinced either Riddle or Creative can fully pull it off, but the pieces are all there. 

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Though I'm a big Shayna fan, I was hoping to see the title come off of her, but after watching the match and seeing the story told I'm glad she retained. She is completely neccessary as champ. She has the heel act down, and while there are some little things in her ring work that she could stand to adjust she's had a string of great performances. 

The match was great. Minus a few awkward timing issues that come with 4-ways everyone showed up and performed great.  A lot of good story telling mixed in with creativity, fast paced, and hard hitting. 

There was a comment made about a week ago where someone mentioned how Bianca looked out of place for her push (amongst some other disagreeable comments), and I cant see where they were coming from. Where else do you place an athlete and performer like her? Slumming it up with Aliyah/Borne/Conti and the rest of rookie class? Surely another few yrs of polishing and she'll be incredible, but she is undoubtedly a star and a solid worker who very much looked comfortable and legit among the other participants. Having her "biting at the heels" in the title picture has been the perfect spot for her so far. I'm just curious where she goes now as she ate the pin here and lost in her previous singles encounter. A call up? Are they going to pull the trigger for her 3rd attempt? 

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On 4/7/2019 at 7:54 AM, jaedmc said:

Dunn is a rare guy that doesn't stop acting when he's on the mat. Like he's always aware that the camera might be close up on his face so he always looks like he's in the fight. Lots of wrestlers fail at this small detail.

ACH is quite good at this as well.

 

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- War Raiders vs Black and Rico was incredible. One of the better tag matches of recent memory. It's kind of random that they've turned out to be such a good team despite having no history together and wildly disparate characters. The War Raiders are kind of underrated in the sense that they've been champs everywhere but never seem to get the love as one of the top teams in the world. This was probably the best match I've seen them in as they both looked like absolute monsters. 

- Riddle vs Velveteen I'm a bit lower on than some but a very good match even with the clash of styles. Riddle is best when he's in short, high impact, strike heavy bombs out matches and Dream takes a while to get warmed up. Loved the finish as I'm all about some roll-up pinning combinations today.  

- Walter vs Pete Dunne wasn't the Match of the Year that I was hoping for but once again a really strong, hard hitting match. WALTER is a really interesting wrestler as what he does really is pretty basic and it's easy to watch a long match of his and not really remember anything from it except the chops. I haven't been as high on Dunne the last year as I was but I'm interested to see where this goes moving forward. I'd like to see British Strong Style get reformed and get a proper run on these brands as I think as great as they are individually they're stronger as an act. 

- I loved the women's match. Man, people really underrate Shayna. She is great; her matches are so different in style from other people on the roster (like they are with Rousey) and she has a presence and aura about her that few women in wrestling have. 

- And then the main event...I mean, I get all the criticisms. I get that Johnny kicked out of everything short of like having his throat slit like that dude at the Blackcraft show. I get that the match was every WWE main event trope crossed with a PWG spotfest. I acknowledge it and still think it was just a masterpiece and one of the greatest babyface performances ever. I agree with the stuff about Johnny's storyline kinda going off the rails because he nearly kills Aleister Black, goes heel and then just says "hey, I'm back" but all that aside this was just an incredible culmination of, with the exception of the Horsewomen, the defining arc of NXT. Adam Cole was also there. Kidding, Cole was good but that was the Johnny show. It was a powerful captivating match and I do think that Johnny, after having failed so many times, had to crawl through hell to reach the Promised Land. It's, for better or worse, everything that is pro wrestling distilled in one match. 

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For being thrown together, Black and Ricochet make a really good team. War Raiders are significantly more polished version of AOP, and are victims of NXT being too stacked for its own good right now, because they're like 2 of the least interesting guys on the roster despite filling a perfect niche. Black and Ricochet make everyone look good, though. Good sendoff for those two, and hopefully the Raiders can keep some of the momentum from this match so they're not working in silence for the rest of their reign.

Dream/Riddle was MOTN for me. It's tough competition for sure, but Riddle might be the best wrestler on the roster. Crisp strikes, seamless mat work, and maintains his timing at any pace. Plus his facial expressions in this match as he adapted to the crowd reactions took him up even another level. Dream hung in there and took a major beating, but it was Riddle's killer offense that made the whole thing work. He looked like a killer and Dream looked good for surviving and pulling out a crafty win. Great match where both guys came out looking better.

This show was my first look at Walter. Seems like a guy that's watched a lot of 90s AJPW. He has the body of Taue and the approach of Hansen. Even though I generally like the modern style, wrestling needs guys like this more than ever. Big burly dudes who may not be the cleanest, but can generally keep up and punch/kick/lariat all these smooth operators in the mush. Just like Mil Muertes was essential to LU. Dunne is definitely one of the best in the company, and even though the chemistry wasn't as good as some of the matches, I liked the feel of this one a lot. Dunne is the longest reigning champ in forever, so I don't agree they needed to go the Sting/Vader route, even introducing Walter to majority of the audience. Vader/Kobashi was fine here.

The women's match was the least of the show, but it was decent given its limitations with the format and Sane/Io obviously holding back for later. Shayna retaining is fine because there's still a fresh reservoir to tap with Io. Kinda hope they'll let Io and Kairi cut loose at the Summer Slam weekend show.

The main event was what it was. You had a last-minute program with two guys who are good at the modern main event style on a show with several guys who are great at it. The match format would probably have broader appeal if it was Riddle vs. Dunne or Ricochet. They didn't really have time to set up any story other than 2 top guys go all out at the biggest show of the year. They did fine in that regard, and I will say a couple of the nearfalls at the end were really good. Johnny winning was a feel good moment that was more important than the match anyway. It was the 4th best match on the show, but both guys did as much as they could with what they had to work with. I do hope UE will turn on Cole who the crowd is dying to cheer. Roddy still has lot left offer as a heel, and I really think KOR has main event run in him too.

Edited by Go2Sleep

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He finally did it

Black/Ricochet vs War Raiders - 4.5
Dream/Riddle - 4.5
Dunne/WALTER - 4.75
Womens 4way - 3.75
Gargano/Cole - 5.5 

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This close to him giving every match 4 or up as well.

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4 hours ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

He finally did it

Black/Ricochet vs War Raiders - 4.5
Dream/Riddle - 4.5
Dunne/WALTER - 4.75
Womens 4way - 3.75
Gargano/Cole - 5.5 

I'd go:

Black/Ricochet vs War Raiders ****1/4
Dream/Riddle ****1/2 MOTN
Dunne/WALTER ****1/2
Womens 4way ****1/4
Gargano/Cole ****1/2.

I may give Gargano/Cole a watch back and if a second viewing does for me.

Edited by The Natural
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On 4/8/2019 at 5:40 AM, jaedmc said:

Sometimes that style works. I've enjoyed plenty of Angle matches. And I even enjoy Riddle to an extent. Sometimes it feels like it's "here's the spots that get pops in other matches let's put that in here", without it making a lot of sense or mattering. Both have tons of talent and aptitude for wrestling.  Riddle's bro character could maybe work in the same way that Angle's goofy stuff worked, in which he's silly but kills people because he's legit.

The only shortcoming I see with Riddle is talking. It feels like it's an effort for him to form sentences and follow what people are saying. that could possibly work if he leans into it and makes it apart of the act. 

The simple solution, if all parties can agree to it - 

Matt Riddle: Paul Heyman Guy *tm*

Why not have Heyman bring in Riddle the same way he did with Lesnar? Build him up just the same and Heyman would have a field day. The obvious Riddle v Lesnar match writes itself and tell me THAT wouldn't get Fox/ESPN talking.

If Ronda comes back for the Horsewomen feud then let Heyman manage them too.

Give them Chad Gable as a midcarder and you have one hell of a stable ready to go.

Paul Heyman: REAL Athlete Advocate would be fucking incredible.

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Sure would've been awkward if they'd had those shirts made up and he'd lost...  

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5 stars or higher sounded right for the main event for me. 

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The story of the last 10 years or so is one of Meltzer's ratings going from helping to steer me to matches to watch to helping to steer me to matches not to watch.

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