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We will ease our way into things. These will evolve over time

BANDIDO

Bandido_a.jpg

Cagematch

SOME THINGS TO WATCH (w/ links)

vs. Astrolux

Bandido vs. Flamita vs. Fenix

vs. Mark Haskins (ROH Debut Match)

All In Main Event

SOME THINGS TO WATCH (via non-linkable sources)

Bandido/Flamita vs. The Rascalz - PWG Time is A Flat Circle

Bandido vs. Rey Fenix - PWG Smokey and the Bandido

Bandido/Flamita vs. Rey Fenix/Rey Horus - Wrestlecon (04/05/18)

RANDOM INFO

The time period pretty much matches up with his wrestling career (there was some earlier stuff but you get the point)

Signed full time with Ring of Honor late in 2018.

Was in the Main Event of All In 

Was in BOLA (Finalist) and British J Cup in 2018

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Posted (edited)

I watched the triple threat match that was linked. Part of me was distracted by just how underrated Fenix is. His brother gets all the hype but leans too heavily on the hand-gesture taunting most of the time. Fenix is an exciting flier who looks uniquely wild and reckless with a lot of his rope jumps and he does a limp, out-on-his-feet sell as well as anyone right now. And we know he can be more sympathetic working from underneath than you'd expect. I've got it in my head that people like Fenix, but don't really appreciate all of the positive attributes he brings to the table. 

Bandido was good, but the match was the fun, mile-a-minute sprint you'd expect. Everyone hung pretty well but there was no standout. I'm just happy he's in ROH where I'll get to see him semi-regularly. 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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3 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I watched the triple threat match that was linked. Part of me was distracted by just how underrated Fenix is. His brother gets all the hype but leans too heavily on the hand-gesture taunting most of the time. Fenix is an exciting flier who looks uniquely wild and reckless with a lot of his rope jumps and he does a limp, out-on-his feet sell as well as anyone right now. And we know he can be more sympathetic working from underneath then you'd expect. I've got it in my head that people like Fenix, but don't really appreciate all of the positive attributes he brings to the table. 

Bandido was good, but the match was the fun, mile-a-minute sprint you'd expect. Everyone hung pretty well but there was no standout. I'm just happy he's in ROH where I'll get to see him semi-regularly. 

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Don't tell anyone, but I've never seen a Fenix match and I'd like to nominate him for this project so I can see a lot of him.

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4 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Don't tell anyone, but I've never seen a Fenix match and I'd like to nominate him for this project so I can see a lot of him.

There's so damn much of his stuff to choose from that you really can't go wrong with anything you see from him.  Big fan of the guy.

As for Bandido I like him but there's certain things I can't get past.  For one his finisher seems to be the German suplex while the guy's bent over clutching the ropes.  It's a neat-looking move and if it's done in a rather organic matter then it's great.  But to me it's something that seems so contrived that it kind of takes me out of it.   Another issue I have is there was a gif in the gif thread from I think late January/early February where he was trading Canadian Destroyers with somebody.  I'll need to find it but while I don't want to go full Cornette fuck that shit.

That said if he can tone down on some of the bullshit like that then it'll be a lot easier for me to get into him.  He's still relatively new so I'm fine with giving him the benefit of the doubt.

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Bandido is super talented, and it’s easy to see why there was a bidding war for him.  But he does have a lot of bad habits.

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I think the only Bandido match I have ever seen was a 4 tag team elimination match in Dragon Gate where he an Flamita stunk up the place. The only thing they did was throwing out big spots without any rhyme or reason to almost no reaction of the crowd.

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3 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I watched the triple threat match that was linked. Part of me was distracted by just how underrated Fenix is. His brother gets all the hype but leans too heavily on the hand-gesture taunting most of the time. Fenix is an exciting flier who looks uniquely wild and reckless with a lot of his rope jumps and he does a limp, out-on-his-feet sell as well as anyone right now. And we know he can be more sympathetic working from underneath than you'd expect. I've got it in my head that people like Fenix, but don't really appreciate all of the positive attributes he brings to the table. 

Bandido was good, but the match was the fun, mile-a-minute sprint you'd expect. Everyone hung pretty well but there was no standout. I'm just happy he's in ROH where I'll get to see him semi-regularly. 

I have basically cam to the conclusion Pentagon mostly sucks and has horrid habits, and Fenix is really good when given the chance to be so.

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After watching the matches listed, I both like Bandito but don't feel super motivated to pursue more of him? He's got some really cool shit, but it's 2019, everyone has cool shit. The triple threat sure was triple threaty. 

He is clearly good and hopefully his RoH run will have some great shit, but he's a little too all actions for my personal taste.

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Bandido is very young and the new hotness, it's lucha, everyone has bad tendencies these days, such as just a shit ton of canadian destroyers for no reason, but he can be very fun to watch.

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5 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I watched the triple threat match that was linked. Part of me was distracted by just how underrated Fenix is. His brother gets all the hype but leans too heavily on the hand-gesture taunting most of the time. Fenix is an exciting flier who looks uniquely wild and reckless with a lot of his rope jumps and he does a limp, out-on-his-feet sell as well as anyone right now. And we know he can be more sympathetic working from underneath than you'd expect. I've got it in my head that people like Fenix, but don't really appreciate all of the positive attributes he brings to the table. 

The big problem is that when you see the styles both Lucha Bros have, ultimately you get the realization:

After that Nexus angle where they advertised John Cena's cousin Juan Cena, he didn't go off to an orphanage somewhere- they just split him up into the Lucha Bros. "Cero Miedo" is basically Spanish for "Never Give Up" anyway, and Fenix's style looks good in the indies, but there's also the gimmick weakness of "Fenix is popular because he is a luchador who works the WWE main event style of 'sell, sell, sell until you're basically dead- then when it's time for the comeback pop right out of it as if nothing happened."

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How very lucha of him.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

  "Fenix is popular because he is a luchador who works the WWE main event style of 'sell, sell, sell until you're basically dead- then when it's time for the comeback pop right out of it as if nothing happened."

This feels like an extreme exaggeration, but we’re all entitled to our own preferences. 

Heck, this barely feels like a measured criticism of Cena or the WWE main event style. Let alone Fenix.

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy

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Fenix has this spot where he gets his opponent in a knucklelock, jumps up onto the middle rope near the corner, pulls his opponent up onto the adjacent middle rope and then rannas them off. It is why I don't complain about the Canadian destroyer that much anymore.

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Posted (edited)

There's two kinds of people in this thread.

People who watch lucha and people that never should.

Fuck logic and physics.  Lucha psychology is different. You either turn off that part of your brain and enjoy yourself or you never will.

I get that these guys are branching out into the US but I like seeing lucha guys work lucha style as much as possible.  Fenix is probably the one most interested in switching it up to a more selling based US style, but still does a lucha comeback, which tends to ignore previous damage and is all about the technico beating the shit out of the rudo and getting some justice.

Penta is totally coasting lately.  Because he can.  He won't stop and change shit unless he has to, and he's still getting crazy money and moving a fuckton of merch. He's at his best doing ultraviolent brawling, which he also doesn't really have to do anymore since he's booked places that don't do that stuff.

If you're over and successful doing what you're doing, why change it?  Milk that shit as long as you can.

 

Edited by Tromatagon
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21 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

There's two kinds of people in this thread.

People who watch lucha and people that never should.

Fuck logic and physics.  Lucha psychology is different. You either turn off that part of your brain and enjoy yourself or you never will.

I get that these guys are branching out into the US but I like seeing lucha guys work lucha style as much as possible.  Fenix is probably the one most interested in switching it up to a more selling based US style, but still does a lucha comeback, which tends to ignore previous damage and is all about the technico beating the shit out of the rudo and getting some justice.

Penta is totally coasting lately.  Because he can.  He won't stop and change shit unless he has to, and he's still getting crazy money and moving a fuckton of merch. He's at his best doing ultraviolent brawling, which he also doesn't really have to do anymore since he's booked places that don't do that stuff.

If you're over and successful doing what you're doing, why change it?  Milk that shit as long as you can.

 

I like how the entire point of this little thing was to expose wrestlers to people who don’t get to see different guys all the time and in the very first thread we already have a “Some guys in here should never watch Lucha!” Post in the first god damned thread.

I don’t mind Lucha, I just like my wrestling with a lot of depth. And I’ve seen enough Negro Casas matches to know that the exists. Since I am not wild about Bandito should I not look for Casas matches?

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Bandido/Flamita vs. PAC/Daga

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Posted (edited)

Would you feel the same if someone went into a Japanese wrestler's thread and talked about how they hit too hard and wrestling should be a work?

The match Rippa just posted is good.  People that aren't that into the trappings of lucha style will love Daga if you haven't seen his stuff.  I think he's more in line with what a lot of people here enjoy on a regular basis.

Edited by Tromatagon

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I love lucha and I haven't been able to force myself to watch any of the matches in this thread because I feel like I'm probably going to dislike them all. I sort of decided I'd take a pass on this one and hope Audaz would show up later and I'd get to catch up on a bunch of his matches with Virus instead. 

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I saw that Matt was the last post in the thread and I figured it was 50/50 that he was going to start posting Sexy Star/Pentagon Jr gifs again and I was going to have to burn everything down

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

I saw that Matt was the last post in the thread and I figured it was 50/50 that he was going to start posting Sexy Star/Pentagon Jr gifs again and I was going to have to burn everything down

I made a very constructive post in the El Hijo De Finn Balor thread, thank you very much.

Edited by Matt D
De? Del? High school Spanish fails me.
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This is a lot of posts about Fenix for a thread about Bandido but sadly no posts about Fenix versus Bandido from PWG.

That first 2018 Dragon Gate tour is a big demarcation line for his career. Prior to it, he was in the upper tier of young Mexico City indie guys in terms but in the way that you could've put a dozen of them in a hat, pulled out two, and had about the same match as if you had pulled out another two. (It's a very big hat.) I'm not sure if it was as much specifically working the Dragon Gate style as just working with experienced veterans a lot more, but Bandido came back from Japan with a better feel with interacting and connecting to the crowd as a pure babyface than he showed prior. As much as the crazy moves being able to create an emotional connection been the key to his PWG success and why he's been able to go farther than usually tag partner Flamita.

The problem for him is he's done it mostly in PWG and ROH, which both clearly don't have the spotlight they used to so Bandido's still mostly seen as a GIF guy when it feels like he's more than that now. (The MexaBlood tag run was fun but didn't really show the development as much as Bandido as a singles.) If you're going to invest in BOLA 2018, it does tell a strong story from start to end but that's a long commitment. If you're willing to dip into ROH, the Haskins match is recommended but it is the match versus Silas Young they had in Texas on one of the road shows that is worth tracking down. It is a match that may not look like much on paper and has a slow start, but showcases well what Bandido can do at this point.

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What I know about Bandido is that he does a wacky German suplex spot that I hate and did a Canadian Destroyer exchange with a guy once.  I'm going into this with an open mind ...  

Bandido vs Astrolux en el 4 Aniversario de WMC

This sucks.  

Just an emotionless, soulless demonstration of guys who look like they learned to flip and fly before learning to make anyone care about any of it.  Astrolux's character is clapping over his head three times before doing something and Bandido's character is to be determined by a poll to be held at a later date.  Here's an example of my issue, they're doing criss-crosses and Bandido does the backward roll for the reverse monkey flip so Astrolux can dive over them to avoid the move.  Except Bandido throws his legs so wide open that if Astrolux hadn't 'avoided it', he couldn't have done the flip regardless.  And just like throwing a clothesline so high that the opponent doesn't have to duck for it to miss, it misses the point of being a form of competition.  It's a dance with predetermined steps that has dogged my ability to enjoy lucha in the past and continue to do so now.  This is a mess that tells you no story and is nothing but an exhibition of spots that could have been mixed into any order and wouldn't have changed the process an iota.

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I think he is exciting lucha guy to watch, but at the same time there are lots of exciting lucha guys around and Bandido doesn't really bring anything new to the table in my opinion. And thats probably why suddenly half of the posts here are about Fenix and Lucha style in general.

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Bandido vs. Flamita vs. Fenix

Three ways are funny things in that they are, in general, harder to put together when it comes to spacing and can lead to extended periods when one bails out so the other two can work.  In this context, it actually seems to make things more palatable as it allows dives and high spots without having to worry about transitions as much or having to set things up as clearly.  That being said, it makes it harder for any of these guys to stand out as they are all so similar from a skill set perspective so at the end, you forget who did what and why.  Other than Fenix hopping from the second rope to the top rope or vice versa, nothing seemed unique from wrestler to wrestler.  This seemed to flow better than the previous match I watched but somethings just looked too wacky like head standing to counter out of a lethal injection which I mean... yuck.  I'm not seeing Bandido as a break out talent thus far as he sort of went into the weeds here and didn't stand out.

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