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MARCH 2019 WRESTLING TALK.


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Yeah, this.  I mean I guess "refuse to leave a huge contract even though they're doing their best to treat you like shit and run you off" is some sort of story of perseverance, but it's not the kind they make after school specials about.  This is more like pestering a woman who wants nothing to do with you until, exhausted, she gives in and marries you.  And then you act like it was a great story of romance!

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I think what I don't want is an old timer giving his wrestling opinionz 4 u when they're totally out of touch with what the environment is and they're completely in favor of however Vince does things. Vince thinking WWE performers have a sense of entitlement is the same bullshit as no one grabs for the brass ring. So which one is it? Do you want them to grab the brass ring and go for it or not? Because if you do, someone is going to feel a sense of entitlement. If they don't have that sense of entitlement, then they're going to be a-ok with doing jobs, which is about 95% of the roster.

The type of old timer WWE needs backstage is Jericho or even Austin because they would tell you to be a self-advocate and not be afraid to speak up or knock on Vince's door. FFS, Jericho told Kofi that he needs to go and fight Vince and that probably would up being one of the best things to happen to Kofi at the time because he's talked about how he was probably headed out the door until he stood up for himself. Vince's idea of what entitlement is isn't what entitlement really is. Other writers have spoken about this as well. If you don't stand up to Vince or look strong to Vince then he'll never take you seriously and I would imagine that's what his idea of entitlement is.

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22 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

If you decided to Marathon a whole bunch of 80’s WWF shows a few years ago like me, you’d realize that nobody jobbed clean ever back then.The best you’d get is a guy slipping on one banana peel before taking a pin.

It was still played as an athletic competition where you didn't so much *need* finishers to win, you could catch a guy flat footed or right after a mistake and win, like you can in amateur (or even MMA now).  Somewhere in the 90's, that turned into "Only win with a finisher or a roll up after a distraction" which morphed into the "place on the card = how many finishers you need to hit to win" bastardization of King's Road that US Wrestling became in the late 90's/early aughts.  Guys didn't realize that the getting caught stuff kept you looking stronger than dropping a clean fall via finisher.

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It's been noted before but Bundy's death really hammers home that the big issue with the WWE is the stagnation of the roster. Guys like Ted Dibiase, Henning etc had like 3--5 year runs but were treated like huge deals. Even the totality of Hogan's first run was 9 years or so. Bundy had like a 3 year run. But these guys came in, were pushed hard and then moved on when that run was done. That was the wrestling playbook for decades. 

Now, you have guys who just hang around for a decade shuffling up and down the card. 

I get that they don't want to release talent but it seems to me that the company would be far better if they cut like 25 percent of their talent, especially the lower card veterans.  

Edited by Hagan
cleaned it up
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40 minutes ago, Hagan said:

It's been noted before but Bundy's death really hammers home that the big issue with the WWE is the stagnation of the roster. Guys like Ted Dibiase, Henning etc had like 3--5 year runs but were treated like huge deals. Even the totality of Hogan's first run was 9 years or so. Bundy had like a 3 year run. But these guys came in, were pushed hard and then moved on when that run was done. That was the wrestling playbook for decades. 

Now, you have guys who just hang around for a decade shuffling up and down the card. 

I get that they don't want to release talent but it seems to me that the company would be far better if they cut like 25 percent of their talent, especially the lower card veterans.  

Agree stagnation is a huge issue (13 time champ Randy Orton anyone?) but it's such a different landscape now when you've got a PPV/Takeover week and you've got to fill 13 hours of TV. Content is King in these times, so I think you'll be seeing today's guys stick around much, much longer especially with these new TV deals and possible competition afoot. 

Actually, it really isn't much different than WCW having guys like Eaton, Duggan, Barry Darsow, John Nord, Enos/Bloom, etc. doing jobs on the weekend shows, except now it's (let's say) Dolph on Main Event. Someone's gotta be in that spot, why not have it be a guy with some name recognition? I don't give a shit I'm down for another Tatanka mini-run or whatever

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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Why did Blackjack Marciano leave the business? I remember he just disappeared in 2004 when the CHIKARA students began getting exposure and booked all over the place which is odd.

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1 hour ago, Hagan said:

It's been noted before but Bundy's death really hammers home that the big issue with the WWE is the stagnation of the roster. Guys like Ted Dibiase, Henning etc had like 3--5 year runs but were treated like huge deals. Even the totality of Hogan's first run was 9 years or so. Bundy had like a 3 year run. But these guys came in, were pushed hard and then moved on when that run was done. That was the wrestling playbook for decades. 

Now, you have guys who just hang around for a decade shuffling up and down the card. 

I get that they don't want to release talent but it seems to me that the company would be far better if they cut like 25 percent of their talent, especially the lower card veterans.  

I’ve said it before, but the best example of this is what a big deal they made when Taker hit 10 years with his Decade of Destruction. Now we have guys like Kofi,  Dolph, and Miz who have been mostly hanging in the midcard for over a decade.

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I think what I don't want is an old timer giving his wrestling opinionz 4 u when they're totally out of touch with what the environment is and they're completely in favor of however Vince does things. Vince thinking WWE performers have a sense of entitlement is the same bullshit as no one grabs for the brass ring. So which one is it? Do you want them to grab the brass ring and go for it or not? Because if you do, someone is going to feel a sense of entitlement. If they don't have that sense of entitlement, then they're going to be a-ok with doing jobs, which is about 95% of the roster.

The type of old timer WWE needs backstage is Jericho or even Austin because they would tell you to be a self-advocate and not be afraid to speak up or knock on Vince's door. FFS, Jericho told Kofi that he needs to go and fight Vince and that probably would up being one of the best things to happen to Kofi at the time because he's talked about how he was probably headed out the door until he stood up for himself. Vince's idea of what entitlement is isn't what entitlement really is. Other writers have spoken about this as well. If you don't stand up to Vince or look strong to Vince then he'll never take you seriously and I would imagine that's what his idea of entitlement is.

Ultimately, I think that's the difference with the current era: Most things like this boil down to the feeling that the Performance Center is making it clear to this generation of workers:

NXT is the actual wrestling promotion and you'll get rewarded for getting over, getting great matches...but ultimately on the main roster, you're being cast in a TV show and you have to treat it as being an actor/actress first, a wrestler second. 

This explains the "how could they make [x] a NXT guy when James Ellsworth is main roster?" question, (answer: "Would you want [x] cast in James Ellsworth's role?") the "they're in NXT too long" problem (answer: "they're waiting for a role to be cast in"), and this problem ("If Vince had plans to push you, it's 'grabbing the brass ring. If he didn't, it's entitlement.") 

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Another thing about the "good ol days": Hogan had a different challenger every month.  It was rare that anyone wrestled each other for several matches unless a blood feud was involved.  Nowadays, we get the same matches spread out across at least 3 big shows, and usually 10 Raws/Smackdowns.  And that's provided they don't shuffle things back around after a year or so (Cena/Orton springs to mind).

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9 minutes ago, nate said:

Another thing about the "good ol days": Hogan had a different challenger every month.  It was rare that anyone wrestled each other for several matches unless a blood feud was involved.  Nowadays, we get the same matches spread out across at least 3 big shows, and usually 10 Raws/Smackdowns.  And that's provided they don't shuffle things back around after a year or so (Cena/Orton springs to mind).

This isn't quite as accurate as you state. Hogan went two or three with a bunch of opponents. Just looking at MSG quickly, he went two with Kamala, two with Race, three with Bossman. Multiple with Savage and with Dibiase.

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With that unreleased UWC video game for the NES being discovered last week, there’s some questions surrounding it. The guy that has the cart now and has dumped the ROM to ensure its release has an inquiry regarding the UWC moniker.

Theres never been anything shown publicly regarding the Universal Wrestling Corporation, right? Just an internal placeholder that turned into WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING almost immediately, correct?

Edited by Hoarr
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8 minutes ago, Matt D said:

This isn't quite as accurate as you state. Hogan went two or three with a bunch of opponents. Just looking at MSG quickly, he went two with Kamala, two with Race, three with Bossman. Multiple with Savage and with Dibiase.

True but they weren't available to everyone.  I didn't typically have MSG growing up so if I didn't see something at a house show then the only opportunity I had was syndication or a Saturday Night's Main Event.  Everything is fresh that way.  

With all the TV time to fill and the monthly PPVs we end up seeing guys face each other sometimes 8-10 times in a year. It's way too much.  That's why I'd like guys to go down to NXT or something.   Like,  Ricochet and Black are on the main roster now so why not send a few guys down to NXT to do something. 

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1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Someone's gotta be in that spot, why not have it be a guy with some name recognition? I don't give a shit I'm down for another Tatanka mini-run or whatever

Definitely need more of this. Loved all the 05-09 legend return runs. Tatanka, Animal, Hacksaw, Jannetty, etc.

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52 minutes ago, Hoarr said:

With that unreleased UWC video game for the NES being discovered last week, there’s some questions surrounding it. The guy that has the cart now and has dumped the ROM to ensure its release has an inquiry regarding the UWC moniker.

Theres never been anything shown publicly regarding the Universal Wrestling Corporation, right? Just an internal placeholder that turned into WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING almost immediately, correct?

I don't think anything ever got publicly announced like on TV and magazines, did it? This was from the November 14, 1988 issue of the Wrestling Observer so I imagine other issues from that era would've covered it:
G6yMTQ7.png

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6 hours ago, Craig H said:

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/03/mark-henry-on-talking-with-jimmy-uso-after-his-arrest-651820/

I know Mark Henry is beloved here and I like him a lot too, but he sounds incredibly out of touch when he says that people backstage feel entitled or no one wants to do jobs anymore. The problem is that too many people are doing jobs and no one speaks up for their position. More than that, how the fuck can you feel entitled when you're given shit to work with?

Mark Henry literally works backstage with the talent, so I'm not sure why you think you have a better grasp on how they feel about their jobs. 

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3 hours ago, Hoarr said:

With that unreleased UWC video game for the NES being discovered last week, there’s some questions surrounding it. The guy that has the cart now and has dumped the ROM to ensure its release has an inquiry regarding the UWC moniker.

Theres never been anything shown publicly regarding the Universal Wrestling Corporation, right? Just an internal placeholder that turned into WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING almost immediately, correct?

Glad to see that my friend Frank is on it now. As far as well can tell, it was never announced or mentioned anywhere prior to this reveal. This isn't surprising as unreleased/prototype NES games are still being covered to this day.

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4 hours ago, Edwin said:

Why did Blackjack Marciano leave the business? I remember he just disappeared in 2004 when the CHIKARA students began getting exposure and booked all over the place which is odd.

I know he got hurt in a match. Knee or something like that. Kingston kayfabed it into his feud with Hero at times, but I think he just quit because it was a really bad injury and didn't want to go anymore. Maybe he had a real job.

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On 3/9/2019 at 5:57 PM, Raziel said:

Gonna guess that, along with Dave's comments last week and his now constant picking apart how sick for how long Roman was is probably what set Nia off.

 

EDIT: Add in Satin stirring the pot and Dave needing to Tweet a correction about his speculating about Roman and yeah, that's what's going on.  Dave should quit while hes ahead, but he won't. 

BTW Satin was the guy calling a hospital pestering people to give him info on Ric Flair's condition so he's a total fucking lowlife. Dave's toenail clippings have more talent, integrity and credibility then that guy has in his whole body.

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9 hours ago, Ryan said:

I know he got hurt in a match. Knee or something like that. Kingston kayfabed it into his feud with Hero at times, but I think he just quit because it was a really bad injury and didn't want to go anymore. Maybe he had a real job.

On one of Kingston's shoots he confirmed the knee injury. Basically Blackjack could have surgery and continue to wrestle or not have it and live just fine. Also Eddie inferred Blackjack's falling out with Quackenbush kinda killed his love for the business.

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