Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

UFC 235: Jones vs. Smith (3/2/2019) - Las Vegas, NV (T-Mobile Arena)


Elsalvajeloco

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, J.T. said:

He also needs to not have a chin made of glass.

He has had other fights where he got hit and was fine. You don't win a UFC title on the path he took with a shitty chin. I think the Almeida fight is a great example of when Garbrandt sit still and trades like a dummy, he gets touched up. The Marcus Brimage fight is another good example. When he moves his head and steps off to the side or was patient and stayed at range,  he can wear his opponent out. He has really bad habit of standing straight up and carrying his hands low spamming the same left/right combo. If you do that, you will get your block knocked off. For whatever reason, he thought to move his head continuously and evade most of Dominick Cruz's attacks (he did get wobbled with a left hook when he did stand up straight and then fought much smarter the rest of the fight). However, for guys who have (and no slight to Cruz) a better chance of denting his chin, he wants to play rock em sock em robots. His loyalty to Team Alpha Male (turns out his uncle Robert Meese wasn't able to help for the Munhoz camp) makes him believe forcing the knockout and getting his head lopped off is honorable. Go train with Brandon Gibson or somebody savvy enough to respect that you have limitations, but your limitations can be hid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

However, for guys who have (and no slight to Cruz) a better chance of denting his chin, he wants to play rock em sock em robots. 

I know you're not slighting Cruz, man.  Cruz destroys by debilitative volume rather than sheer power or at least that's what the fights I've watched seem to indication.

I think that Cody fights that way because he calls it imposing his will in his head, but it never ends well for him.  You'd think that getting KTFOed twice by TJ would teach you not to stand and trade with a guy that punches as hard as you do, but thus far he hasn't learned that lesson and that does indeed sound like a lack of proper coaching.

Edited by J.T.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, J.T. said:

I know you're not slighting Cruz, man.  Cruz destroys by debilitative volume rather than sheer power or at least that's what the fights I've watched seem to indication.

I think that Cody fights that way because he calls it imposing his will in his head, but it never ends well for him.  You'd think that getting KTFOed twice by TJ would teach you not to stand and trade with a guy that punches as hard as you do, but thus far he hasn't learned that lesson and that does indeed sound like a lack of proper coaching.

Cruz saw that he could hurt Garbrandt and then was throwing his punches from further and further away unless Cody was standing right in front of him.

I know guys in MMA do this thing a lot (to be fair Leo Santa Cruz did it recently at the end of his fight with Rafael Rivera) where they just turn right to left throwing the same combination. Except Cody Garbrandt at his worst does this for a majority of the fight expecting his opponent won't figure this out. He caught Dom doing that and dropped him and surmises that he can do that to most other fighters. The lack of diversity (thought it would doom him against Thominhas, but Almeida fought him a phone booth to his own detriment) in addition to ill advised defensive lapses is getting him in deep, deep trouble. 

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/2/2019 at 8:29 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

If you're a prospect, you can't get massacred by Diego Sanchez in 2019.

I disagree with this.  If you look at the people that Diego Sanchez who has lost to over the years, he's only losing to quality veteran fighters.  Diego Sanchez is the exact wrong fighter for someone like Mickey Gall.  Diego is tough as nails, technically sound, and isn't going to be surprised by anything that someone like Mickey Gall can do in a fight.  Gall's biggest strength as a fighter is as a grappler, but Diego is an absolute monster on the ground.  He's about as vicious of a top position grappler as the sport has ever seen.  He's in that Ryan Bader class of dudes who utterly destroy anyone who is even 1% worse than him.  Diego is shopworn, past his prime, and about a generation or two behind elite fighters, but that dude was really fucking good for a good long while.  Mickey Gall may end up being good in the future, but he has a long way to go before he has anything for someone like Diego Sanchez.  It's mostly his fault, but Diego Sanchez is one of those people who will never get the credit he deserves.  He's a crazy person who often decides to get into slugfests that he can't win, but he was great at his peak.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 Diego is tough as nails, technically sound, and 

As far as striking goes, I wouldn't say that. Diego still walks face first into punches in every fight (he even did it against Gall) and has his entire body cocked like he is a several hours into rigor mortis. Terence Crawford was laughing at Conor training. I couldn't imagine him watching a Diego Sanchez highlight/lowlight reel.

FWIW Gall passed out cutting weight so there is that.

Looking at how the Randy Brown fight went, I think Gall has a problem getting past the stage where simply gets a takedown and work from there. The stuff Gall is suppose to figure out before he gets to the UFC he has to learn on the fly. He should still be in CFFC or Ring of Combat. I know he is in Los Angeles now with Joe Schilling and his new makeshift team with Matt Brown, but I am not sure that's the best place for him. He has been in the UFC for three years and on the verge of regressing because no one is there to guide him through that significant experience gap. He should be mopping guys like Diego Sanchez up by now. At least Sage had the excuse of being in college and a slightly overbearing daddy. Mickey Gall, especially entering the passing out during weight cutting into the convo, is in full self sabotage mode.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

As far as striking goes, I wouldn't say that. Diego still walks face first into punches in every fight (he even did it against Gall) and has his entire body cocked like he is a several hours into rigor mortis. Terence Crawford was laughing at Conor training. I couldn't imagine him watching a Diego Sanchez highlight/lowlight reel.

FWIW Gall passed out cutting weight so there is that.

Looking at how the Randy Brown fight went, I think Gall has a problem getting past the stage where simply gets a takedown and work from there. The stuff Gall is suppose to figure out before he gets to the UFC he has to learn on the fly. He should still be in CFFC or Ring of Combat. I know he is in Los Angeles now with Joe Schilling and his new makeshift team with Matt Brown, but I am not sure that's the best place for him. He has been in the UFC for three years and on the verge of regressing because no one is there to guide him through that significant experience gap. He should be mopping guys like Diego Sanchez up by now. At least Sage had the excuse of being in college and a slightly overbearing daddy. Mickey Gall, especially entering the passing out during weight cutting into the convo, is in full self sabotage mode.

Gall should be fighting and beating the bum of the month club in various barns across the midwest.  He's a talent, but he's not ready to be fighting this kind of competition.  Putting him in the cage with a veteran like Diego is just setting him up for failure.  They brought him in to fight CM Punk, who is most likely the most underskilled fighter in the history of the sport.  If the UFC had multiple CM Punk or Sage Northcutt level fighters for him to build his skills he'd be fine, but they don't.  They looked at the bottom of the division and found a former title challenger who is tailor-made to smash an inexperienced fighter like Mickey Gall. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, supremebve said:

Gall should be fighting and beating the bum of the month club in various barns across the midwest.  He's a talent, but he's not ready to be fighting this kind of competition.  Putting him in the cage with a veteran like Diego is just setting him up for failure.

I would say the booking but he beat George Sullivan and Sullivan is pretty solid even considering his USADA troubles. Sullivan is a Northeast guy he would be facing in a regional title fight and a high level fringe UFC fighter. So Gall is at least that good. The next progression is someone like Diego who is severely flawed as a fighter despite being a good ground fighter. A couple fights into his UFC career, he wouldn't be facing Diego and he wasn't facing guys like Diego. He was fighting Sage and that fight very much look liked something that would open up an AXS TV card. Craig White got that Diego Sanchez fight because they figured that White's short notice performance against Magny was not some aberration. For someone like Mickey Gall, three years in and at age twenty seven, you should be doing what other fighters who have talent have been doing to Diego Sanchez and that's decimating him. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Gall should be fighting and beating the bum of the month club in various barns across the midwest.  He's a talent, but he's not ready to be fighting this kind of competition.  Putting him in the cage with a veteran like Diego is just setting him up for failure.  They brought him in to fight CM Punk, who is most likely the most underskilled fighter in the history of the sport.  If the UFC had multiple CM Punk or Sage Northcutt level fighters for him to build his skills he'd be fine, but they don't.  They looked at the bottom of the division and found a former title challenger who is tailor-made to smash an inexperienced fighter like Mickey Gall. 

Well, you pretty much nailed it, CM Punk, Sage Northcutt, and Mickey Gall are answers to two trivia questions: (1.) Who are three people that have never been in my kitchen? and (2.) Who are three people who do not belong in the UFC?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Well, you pretty much nailed it, CM Punk, Sage Northcutt, and Mickey Gall are answers to two trivia questions: (1.) Who are three people that have never been in my kitchen? and (2.) Who are three people who do not belong in the UFC?

I was thinking that Gall probably would be good in PFL, but they have a bunch of mid level East Euro/Russian talent that would probably wreck him. Ray Cooper's son would probably knock him into next week once Gall failed to get a takedown. He should get serious, go to a real MMA gym, and ask for his UFC release so he can start over fresh or he will be Phillipe Nover 2.0.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see Gall going to Jackson/Wink for a time and enjoying a successful career as a doorman at the Great Stone Face, Sneakers, or Slate Street Billiards... Just sayin, the dude is already twenty-seven, if he's going to hit the re-set button, he best being doing so stat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

For someone like Mickey Gall, three years in and at age twenty seven, you should be doing what other fighters who have talent have been doing to Diego Sanchez and that's decimating him. 

1

The fighters who have been decimating Diego Sanchez aren't 27-year-old prospects though.  The closest person to a prospect who has beat Diego is Al Iaquinta and that was Iaquinta's 10th UFC fight, not including his Ultimate Fighter run.  Iaquinta was young, but he wasn't nearly as inexperienced as Gall.  Diego isn't someone who is going to lose to someone like Mickey Gall.  Diego has his faults, but lack of experience is not one of them.  Diego's chin is diminished, but it isn't completely cracked.  If you are going to stop him, it is going to take some firepower.  Gall is a pillow fisted grappler, and he was fighting someone who wasn't going to fold and has better grappling credentials.  Diego is not a good striker, but unless he's knocked unconscious he's never going to stop.  Gall wasn't going to knock him out, and Sanchez has never been submitted.  Gall didn't really have a path for victory.  Gall, White, and Held are all talented prospects, but all got handled by Diego Sanchez.  Diego is not a great fighter anymore, but he's going to lose to a prospect.  He's still too good for that.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, OSJ said:

I can see Gall going to Jackson/Wink for a time and enjoying a successful career as a doorman at the Great Stone Face, Sneakers, or Slate Street Billiards... Just sayin, the dude is already twenty-seven, if he's going to hit the re-set button, he best being doing so stat.

I think he has 2 or 3 years at least because he hasn't be just KO'd or taken a ton of damage. I think it would best to start now because now promotions outside the UFC that aren't Bellator are locking guys down for multiple years. You don't want to be coming back into the UFC at 33 or 34. Doing it now shaves about 1 or 2 years off that and allow him a bit more leveraging power in terms of negotiation.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, supremebve said:

The fighters who have been decimating Diego Sanchez aren't 27-year-old prospects though.  

They like Diego Sanchez though and don't want him to be the stepping stone guy. He is the your obligatory "let's go back to 2006 when guys just got punched in the face and liked it"/ FOTN pandering fighter. Gall got this spot because it's ESPN and he is the higher priority figuring a prospect like Gall three years into his UFC run should make this a low risk/high reward fight.

7 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Gall, White, and Held are all talented prospects, but all got handled by Diego Sanchez.  Diego is not a great fighter anymore, but he's going to lose to a prospect.  He's still too good for that.  

I already stated what's wrong with Gall. Craig White is not that good at all and just lost this weekend in Cage Warriors to a mid level Brazilian fighter. Marcin Held spent years into Bellator and is a guy who outside of being an upgraded Masakazu Imanari has really struggled to find his footing outside certain parts of his Bellator tenure.

I don't see Diego beating Kamaru Usman pre Maia. He doesn't beat Covington pre Maia. Leon Edwards would smash him. Till would have killed him. Vicente Luque was good enough to kill him post TUF ATT vs. Blackzilians. Millender would KO him now. Geoff Neal would beat him. He could beat Kunchenko because Kunchenko looks so mediocre for 20-0. Razak Al Hassan would sleep him. He could beat Jake Matthews because Matthews still hasn't fully turned the corner. Dwight Grant may be two or three fights from being really really good. Going back to my point above, they love Diego Sanchez and besides an opportunity to get a good ESPN rating like Gall, they would never put him in with those guys. The same when he was at 155. They aren't going to humiliate Diego Sanchez intentionally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

They like Diego Sanchez though and don't want him to be the stepping stone guy. He is the your obligatory "let's go back to 2006 when guys just got punched in the face and liked it"/ FOTN pandering fighter. Gall got this spot because it's ESPN and he is the higher priority figuring a prospect like Gall three years into his UFC run should make this a low risk/high reward fight.

I already stated what's wrong with Gall. Craig White is not that good at all and just lost this weekend in Cage Warriors to a mid level Brazilian fighter. Marcin Held spent years into Bellator and is a guy who outside of being an upgraded Masakazu Imanari has really struggled to find his footing outside certain parts of his Bellator tenure.

I don't see Diego beating Kamaru Usman pre Maia. He doesn't beat Covington pre Maia. Leon Edwards would smash him. Till would have killed him. Vicente Luque was good enough to kill him post TUF ATT vs. Blackzilians. Millender would KO him now. Geoff Neal would beat him. He could beat Kunchenko because Kunchenko looks so mediocre for 20-0. Razak Al Hassan would sleep him. He could beat Jake Matthews because Matthews still hasn't fully turned the corner. Dwight Grant may be two or three fights from being really really good. Going back to my point above, they love Diego Sanchez and besides an opportunity to get a good ESPN rating like Gall, they would never put him in with those guys. The same when he was at 155. They aren't going to humiliate Diego Sanchez intentionally.

16

We define prospects differently.  Mickey Gall is a prospect.  He's someone with a good base of skills who could be successful if things break right.  Everyone you named is a fully formed UFC level fighter, who is past the prospect portion of their career.  When I think prospect, I think someone who has less than 10 fights and/or is still trying to figure out their game.  All the dude's you name have clearly defined games and most have upwards of 20 fights.  Diego Sanchez is a UFC caliber fighter, he's in the lower tier, but he's not losing to the dudes who don't know how to define their games.  Diego is a really good grappler, but Usman and Covington had the skills to take him down and smash him when they debuted in the UFC.  They're of a newer generation of fighters that are filling the void that Sanchez used to occupy.   Till and Luque have good enough takedown defense to keep a fight standing and hit hard enough to knock Diego unconscious.  Those guys are just too good already for me to call them prospects.  They still have time to improve, but those guys know what they want to do and how to do it already.  Those guys are closer to contenders than prospects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, supremebve said:

Everyone you named is a fully formed UFC level fighter, who is past the prospect portion of their career.

All of those dudes were prospects at some stage of their UFC career. Diego didn't just start fighting in the UFC yesterday. He was in the UFC with these guys at the same time. Same with most of the prospects at lightweight past and present. This guy mysteriously hasn't faced high level prospects besides Al Iaquinta? Yeah, this isn't a coincidence. 

2 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 Everyone you named is a fully formed UFC level fighter, who is past the prospect portion of their career.  

Grant and Neal definitely ain't. Millender still is a work in progress because his wrestling is lacking. If Grant was that, he would have beat Zak Ottow. In a couple fights, he will probably be able to.

I don't think we have different definitions for prospects, but we certainly have different perspectives on Diego's resume. Diego ain't beating any high level prospects that have been in the UFC at lightweight and welterweight that have rolled through the last five years. He just ain't. Diego is a pretty decent fighter, but at no point do I believe he stops himself from getting his doors blown off by anyone who isn't severely flawed like a Mickey Gall or just flat out not UFC level like Craig White.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Grant and Neal definitely ain't. Millender still is a work in progress because his wrestling is lacking. If Grant was that, he would have beat Zak Ottow. In a couple fights, he will probably be able to.

Grant and Neal are prospects, but are still different than the kind of fighter I was talking about.  Neal is about as good of an athlete as anyone in the UFC, his takedown defense looks special and he has a straight left that seems to have a laser targeting system.  Belal Muhammed is a pretty good fighter, but Neal hit him with about 50 of those straight lefts in their fight.  Grant's fight against Zak Ottow was troubling for a fighter with his talent level.  He looks like he could be one of those guys who can be a lion some nights and a lamb on other nights.  Grant hits like a ton of bricks, but I don't know how good he is outside of that. 

I've been slacking on my MMA watching lately, but I need to really do a better job paying attention the guys at the bottom of the card.  There is a chance Diego gets smoked by a couple of them, but I'm probably forgetting a bunch of those preliminary guys.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Grant and Neal are prospects, but are still different than the kind of fighter I was talking about.  Neal is about as good of an athlete as anyone in the UFC, his takedown defense looks special and he has a straight left that seems to have a laser targeting system.  Belal Muhammed is a pretty good fighter, but Neal hit him with about 50 of those straight lefts in their fight.  Grant's fight against Zak Ottow was troubling for a fighter with his talent level.  He looks like he could be one of those guys who can be a lion some nights and a lamb on other nights.  Grant hits like a ton of bricks, but I don't know how good he is outside of that. 

I've been slacking on my MMA watching lately, but I need to really do a better job paying attention the guys at the bottom of the card.  There is a chance Diego gets smoked by a couple of them, but I'm probably forgetting a bunch of those preliminary guys.  

Since there are countless fighters who come into the UFC with gaudy and unproven records, I don't look at the number of fights strictly. That could be part of it. I mean I brought up Alexey Kunchenko earlier. He is someone I wouldn't be surprised if he lost to someone who is 5-1 or 6-2 or someone like Luque who was like borderline .500 upon UFC entry. Someone like that who shows up 20-0 doesn't mean what it meant ten years ago even when you could still fluff up your record then. I assess you on how you got into the UFC (organically via LFA, CES, PFL, EFN, ACB/Akhmat FC/WFCA, WOCS, Jungle Fight, Shooto Brasil, etc, Looking For a Fight, the Contender Series, TUF, late replacement) and how you fared against competition before you got there and in your first 1 or 2 maybe three UFC fights. Now if you're someone who has been around for minute like Bristol Marunde or Jim Wallhead, yeah, you aren't a prospect. However, for guys who haven't been at major organization level (not counting guys who had one or two fights on the Bellator prelims) and haven't been consistently fighting upper mid level or better opponents for their weight class (this would automatically disqualify someone like Marcin Held), you are certainly a prospect. 

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Gall didn't belong in the UFC, and he only got in because he campaigned for a fight with CM Punk on Lookin' for a Fight. 

I think we understand that.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Gall didn't belong in the UFC, and he only got in because he campaigned for a fight with CM Punk on Lookin' for a Fight. 

YOU DON'T SAY? face man facial expression person black and white nose smile emotion human behavior cartoon text head male forehead hairstyle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...