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Dolfan in NYC

Raw is NXT - 2/18/2019

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I think it was Corey who made the deeply stupid Batman and Joker comparison.

But Cole did call Back "moody" like he was a grounded teenager, so...

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I think a lot of current NXT talent, including those who appeared on Raw, would best be served by staying in NXT until the Fox SD! deal starts if the rumors about them wanting something more like a sports presentation are true. They're guys who can get over with main show audiences based on their work alone. Dean Malenko or Benoit weren't exactly known for money promos either, and Guerrero, Mysterio, Jericho didn't hit their stride on the mic til much later, but crowds back then absolutely loved them. I think in a more sports-like environment, something a little closer to an NXT Takeover type presentation, they'll really get their chance to shine without all the stupid crap that makes Raw, Raw. 

I really, really hope they don't mess Black up. The other guys, they can always make the old excuses about: too small, can't talk, whatever. But if they can't hit a home run with Black, then I don't know what to say because that dude should be a huge, huge star. 

Also, it bears repeating: what a terrible crowd. One of the last house shows I went to was a half-full Sunday matinee show, and it was more lively than this.

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8 hours ago, Jamal said:

Poor Sasha and Bayley. That whole segment just seemed to drag. 

They scripted them to go out and cut the same exact promo they did minutes after winning the chamber.  Made no sense. The thing that made the post-chamber promo good was it was in the moment and emotions were high and the crowd was hot. 

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7 hours ago, Casey said:

According to Meltzer, that actually might be the plan.

At least that tells me when will be a good time to use the restroom. 

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I understand people have a want to be disagreeable and have an in-built cynicism when it comes to the main roster so having shower thoughts of how you would implement new talent and it not entirely panning out how you envisioned is probably going to trigger you, but let me state an alternative view. 

If this was just a showcase for NXT and/or part of Vince's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks phase then I'm not angry at the use of all four guys.

-Ricochet shows off his highlight reel and wins the match for his team.

-DIY convincingly beats the tag team champions.

-Black crushes Elias in a short match that gets his finisher over as instant death.

If anything it devalues the current Raw roster. If this was 15 years ago all of these dudes aren't winning a damn thing.

Of course the crowd didn't help, but if I'm a first time viewer at home I would be clamoring to see more of them.

People need to drill out this misconception that just because someone is perceived to be a big deal in NXT doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be instant main-eventers squashing established talent on the main roster. Transitioning over to a new audience takes time. The booking last night was fine.

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24 minutes ago, Rick said:

-Ricochet shows off his highlight reel and wins the match for his team.

-DIY convincingly beats the tag team champions.

-Black crushes Elias in a short match that gets his finisher over as instant death.

Wait...they all won their matches? If there was one thing that was impossible to discern from this thread up until this point it was that they all won their matches. 

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I fell asleep watching RAW and had the weirdest dream that Elias was Jerry Lee Lewis and he was cutting a heel promo on Louisiana. Also, it's amazing how all these NXT people are just random guys on the main roster. I'm totally convinced there is a memo or something that the RAW and Smackdown creative are to completely ignore anything that happens in NXT. Triple H might pull rank occasionally and make sure an Asuka stays undefeated, but that's the rare acceptation.

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I think you need to look at last night's debuts in the context of the reports that WWE's current mandate is essentially to get ratings up however they can before the FOX deal begins.

WWE might be trying to go back to the "anything can happen in the WOOOORLD WRESTLING FEDERATIONNNNNN" mantra of - hey, you can't miss an episode of RAW. Doesn't matter if it's in New York City or Bumfuck, Louisiana, something special might happen that you're going to be hearing about tomorrow.

Obviously, a hot crowd is preferable, but at the end of the day with solid booking (which is a big question mark) it's not going to matter for any of these guys in the long run. They all looked strong and went over pretty prominent opponents.

I do think WWE's biggest problem creatively with these NXT guys is being victims of their own echo chamber. Creative/HHH/whoever is a little too invested in these guys and gals to be able to put themselves in the shoes of the audience, many of whom need, at the very least, a crash course on who these guys are before they just throw them on TV.

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I know things are vastly different these days, so I'm not trying to equate both periods, but in the 80s how were new debuts handled? Was there any kind of buildup or vignettes, or were most guys just entered at the bottom of the card and worked their way up slowly? I assume it was the latter but were there any notable debuts? What about guys who were big stars elsewhere?

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13 minutes ago, Swiftian said:

I know things are vastly different these days, so I'm not trying to equate both periods, but in the 80s how were new debuts handled? Was there any kind of buildup or vignettes, or were most guys just entered at the bottom of the card and worked their way up slowly? I assume it was the latter but were there any notable debuts? What about guys who were big stars elsewhere?

Depends on the company. Vince certainly liked debuting people with vignettes,especially top of the card guys. 

On the other hand, you have the RNR winning the tag belts on their first night for Crockett by going "an hour" vs the Russians. 

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BTW - for what it's worth - no one is sure if these are actual call-ups

Meltzer said he was waiting for clarification

The PWI folks believe they aren't actual callups (more like how Kairi Sane has been on 3 PPVs but isn't on the main roster)

Pro Wrestling Sheet is treating them like they are on the main roster now

I was trying to figure out what Wade Keller thought but it was painful - I think he is on the "they are on the main roster now" side

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They used NXT nameplates for them as they made their way to the ring, if that's an indicator.

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2 hours ago, Rick said:

If this was just a showcase for NXT and/or part of Vince's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks phase then I'm not angry at the use of all four guys.

-Ricochet shows off his highlight reel and wins the match for his team.

-DIY convincingly beats the tag team champions.

 -Black crushes Elias in a short match that gets his finisher over as instant death.

 If anything it devalues the current Raw roster. If this was 15 years ago all of these dudes aren't winning a damn thing.



15 years ago, you had the Bashams called up and were an immediate threat, you had Lashley dominating the SD midcard scene from debut, and Eugene helping out Benoit in his feud with Triple H. 

It's not that unbelievable.

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I think Baron Corbin is a huge miss. From what he was during the NXT squashes period to now dressing like a TGI Fridays duty manager, and constantly being referred to as "THEFORMERGENERALMANAGEROFRAW" as if its in any way relevant to his current role is frustrating as hell.

Braun needs to go to Japan and go away for a year. Unless he gets the DDP rib tape gimmick. In fact, bring back Kimberley Page as his valet. What format does Playboy exist in these days? A Braun/Kim Page spread would be something.

Zero fucks given about Elias either. If they're putting together a Stud Stable type thing, he'd be perfect for it. Midcard guy that can take the fall in multi man matches without needing long, dire segments. 

I think the most interesting thing they can do from here is have Lesnar steamroll Rollins at Mania, issue an open challenge on Raw the next night, give Lashley the 93 Luger turn and have him beat Lesnar. Ya got options from there in a big way. Rollins not so much. Definitely not with Lesnar.

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8 hours ago, J.T. said:

Ronda vs. Ruby was a nice snug match and a step in the right direction on the mission to get Ronda over as a face before WM while setting up Ruby as a serious competitor. 

This is pretty much the match that should've happened last night at EC and the taint of last night's squash still stunk up this match a little as the bookers totally dissed Ruby's finisher by letting Ronda kick out of it twice.

This tells me that either:

1. Ruby needs to debut a new and ridiculously hurty finisher and relegate the Riott Kick to Arn Anderson Spinebuster near-finisher / flash finish / hope spot status 

or what would really make me happy....

2. Ruby needs to watch some Bad News Allen matches and then kill people after delivering the Riott Kick with a loaded boot.  She has not one, but two stable mates that can provide a referee distraction spot, right?  So why isn't this victory by chicanery angle a thing?

I have never really liked the Riott Kick so either of these work for me.

3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

At least that tells me when will be a good time to use the restroom. 

I take it you dislike Lacey?

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27 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

15 years ago, you had the Bashams called up and were an immediate threat, you had Lashley dominating the SD midcard scene from debut, and Eugene helping out Benoit in his feud with Triple H. 

It's not that unbelievable.

The Bashams were two meat headed bald nazis that were added to perhaps the worst era of tag team wrestling in WWE's history.

Lashley is a 300 pound freak.

Eugene was an anomaly.

Anyway, you're missing my point. Those were all either Vince creations or picks. Of course he's going to promote 300 pounders or abnormal characters.

Just like I assume the first wave of NXT picks this year were geared towards what Vince likes (Lars/EC3 etc.)

His willingness to push and promote the likes of DIY, Ricochet & Black from the off confirms to me his willingness for change. The tide is turning. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Eivion said:

I take it you dislike Lacey?

No, I don't dislike her but a singles match with Asuka at WrestleMania is not something I want to see.  It's not something I think she'd be ready for, no pun.  

Now given that it appears Ronda vs. Becky vs. Charlotte is locked in and there are women's tag titles,  it doesn't leave a lot for Asuka.  However, I'd rather see her against Ruby Riott, Naomi or Nikki Cross.   Ember Moon would have been great too but I hear she's injured. 

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How are they any more or less a Vince creation than the NXT guys? Other than Lashley, they were Cornette guys. 

Your point was whether if they were called up 15 years ago, they'd be given such a positive debut, not whether they were any good or not or whether the tag division was in good health at the time (on both points I agree though). Everything else is just making an assumption on who is/was a Vince guy, a Vince decision to be called up, who you assume Vince likes or doesn't like, or that it was even his decision, let alone a willing one to push and promote these guys for what is currently a one episode shot?

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3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

No, I don't dislike her but a singles match with Asuka at WrestleMania is not something I want to see.  It's not something I think she'd be ready for, no pun.  

Now given that it appears Ronda vs. Becky vs. Charlotte is locked in and there are women's tag titles,  it doesn't leave a lot for Asuka.  However, I'd rather see her against Ruby Riott, Naomi or Nikki Cross.   Ember Moon would have been great too but I hear she's injured. 

Another (not Moolah) mania battle royale for everyone else? 

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1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

No, I don't dislike her but a singles match with Asuka at WrestleMania is not something I want to see.  It's not something I think she'd be ready for, no pun.  

Now given that it appears Ronda vs. Becky vs. Charlotte is locked in and there are women's tag titles,  it doesn't leave a lot for Asuka.  However, I'd rather see her against Ruby Riott, Naomi or Nikki Cross.   Ember Moon would have been great too but I hear she's injured. 

Ruby would make no sense after the Ronda loss and being on Raw. She and Riott Squad need rebuilding. Naomi was the first defense Asuka made. They weren't going for a repeat so soon. Nikki would have been interesting though it has already happened twice in NXT. Personally I find Lacey more interesting just because she is a completely fresh opponent for Asuka. I'm not sure I agree with her not being ready so much as being untested. Its definitely something that would probably work better for b level ppv opposed to WM.

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5 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Another (not Moolah) mania battle royale for everyone else? 

Yeah, I think that will happen.  I can see two women's title matches and then maybe Boss N' Hug in a multi team match for the tag straps. 

@Eivion I don't put much into which brand the women are on.  Vince brought out Charlotte to challenge for the RAW Women's title and made no mention of how that's possible with her being a Smackdown star. 

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It's possible because he can do whatever he wants, he's the owner of the entire company.

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I hope it's a redux of Carmella/Asuka, with Graves in the Ellsworth role. Have Asuka kick his head off, and give him another concussion, write him off TV to go deal with his issues.

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