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All Elite Wrestling 2019

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3 minutes ago, Goodear said:

He's the one getting ripped off by the workers.  

Honestly how people think that making the boys also management isn't going to lead to issues down the line when its time to shift the focus of the company away from Kenny, Cody and the Bucks escapes me.  Because when the going gets tough, the workers with power put the focus on what they can control the most, themselves.  I think that's proven to be universal.

One thing a lot of the folks doing the hand-wringing are forgetting is that we are at least a decade away from Kenny, Cody, and the Bucks reaching the grumpy old veterans who want to keep their spot phase. We don't know what sort of checks and balances will be developed over time, what impact injuries may have, hell, for that matter what the duties of running a company may have. There is nothing to suggest that any of the EVPs are dumb muscleheads, these are some pretty sharp guys that have been in this business most of their lives and been taking notes on what works and what doesn't. I for one seriously doubt that in ten years we see any of the four in an in-ring role other than for special occasions to pop a crowd. 

Y'all seem to forget that wrestling puts a tremendous strain on one's overall health and quite frankly,  I think all four guys are the sort who will be plenty happy watching their bank accounts grow while doing as little in--ring work as possible. Sure, to get things rolling, these are the people that they are building the company around, that's called "sweat equity". Five years from now? Less so. Ten years from now? Like I said, maybe once or twice a year to pop a major show.  Look at the roster they've already signed, it's fucking loaded with young talent and a handful of vets like Daniels and Jericho who are invaluable as teachers. This whole deal seems to be very well thought out, especially for a wrestling fed.

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3 hours ago, Dewar said:

How does one "trust" the Khans? At this point, they are money marks with a massive chequebook. Let's not forget they have already walked back the "our employees will all have health coverage" stuff.

WWE has been just fine with gay performers. They made a mention of Darren Young coming out of the closet, and referenced Sonya being gay once. No attempt to "praise be Stephanie" for hiring them. There is plenty of shit to criticize WWE about. Can we stop just making shit up?

I would think it goes back to their stance on charity and her own tweet where she said "philanthropy is the future of marketing," in addition to what they've done with the women's division/most things progressive. I don't watch enough to know if you're 100% correct in how they've covered the two examples you mentioned, but you're probably right. However, they clearly view good will as capital rather than doing it out of some sort of actual moral stance, and in this they aren't all that different than most big corporations, just more transparent/less tactful. It still makes my skin crawl. 

As for the other stuff, who knows if AEW is even a thing in 4 or 5 years, when most of their contracts are up. Or if when it's time for them to be phased out they move to WWE. I do know that Tony Khan seems incredibly bright in terms of both business and wrestling and will know full well what happened with WCW. I do wish somebody would have asked him how they plan to avoid repeating the mistakes of WCW in one of these interviews though. 

Edited by Oyaji
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Idea clearly is that WCW was infested with bad people doing things for themselves while The Elite are good guys.

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48 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Idea clearly is that WCW was infested with bad people doing things for themselves while The Elite are good guys.

Lol, that in an alternate universe, this comment would have generated probably half a page of "You chosen to ignore ..." shit that I couldn't/wouldn't read.

(Ok, it's out of my system.  Carry on. ;))

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1 hour ago, Archibald said:

Idea clearly is that WCW was infested with bad people doing things for themselves while The Elite are good guys.

Given everything that's been written and said over the past 20 years, people can't be faulted for believing those in power in WCW only had their best interests at heart. If you want to blame somebody, Bischoff has to be at the top of the list for giving people like Hulk Hogan and Kevin Nash creative control, and being a mark for himself.

Yes, I'm being optimistic because I like The Elite and the talent they're bringing in. I want AEW to succeed for everyone involved. The more options, the better it is for everyone. Until Cody and the Bucks prove otherwise, I don't see a WCW level disaster in the making.

 

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On 2/9/2019 at 3:28 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

What Kenny said on WOR is pretty interesting and somewhat admirable but going back to someone saying this could fall apart in three years due to egos, I think that would be it as far as ego is concerned rather than Cody and the other braintrust falling out. All In worked because they were able to put everyone over strong for the most part and I don't think anyone was really concerned about their guy being buried. People are expecting real feuds and not one off matches just to satisfy those who want to see the best matches. That would play an integral part in who has a working relationship with AEW. If everyone has their hands in the pot, that has a major impact on what the booking looks like. If you don't like 50/50 booking now, I certainly fail to see how "everyone is invited!' works to soothe that fear.

Going back to this a bit. I agree with what you said, but I suspect that this was just PR talk to skip whole Lucha Bros situation because it is weird. They are partners with AAA, who is widely believed to be responsible for bad LU contracts, and they announce them with their "indie names", not the real ones owned by AAA. And they'll continue working 50 other promotions where they might get seriously injured before AEW thing even starts properly. How exactly does that work? I think that, for one reason or another, their "partner" won't let them sign Lucha Bros and this was their attempt at face saving.

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9 hours ago, Oyaji said:

I would think it goes back to their stance on charity and her own tweet where she said "philanthropy is the future of marketing..."

I hadn't heard about this and Google searched for it and it was a tweet she tweeted, but it was quoting someone else. I really don't agree with this sentiment, but this seems to be common among major corporations. It mostly comes across as major corporations saying Hi! Here's some money! I don't really care for the cause, but love the good and caring corporation publicity, plus the tax right off...

I get why they'd do it, but I don't agree, but whatever. My take unfortunately won't make a difference. Also, not saying every major corporation is that way, but you know a lot of them are unfortunately.

Also, isn't AEW doing something along that line with having a percentage of ticket sales in Jacksonville go to victims of gun violence? Again, not saying Cody and co. are doing this solely for the publicity and that they don't care about those victims as that would be a cynical stance, but you get what I mean.

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Sure, doing good things for selfish motives is selfish, but as long as good things actually get done, it's a net positive, right?

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Not disagreeing with that, but it would be sorta hypocritical to criticize Stephanie and WWE and not Cody and AEW for doing something along that line.

Yes, I know that's not the sole criticism of Stephanie and WWE as there is more than enough reasons to criticize them, but just putting that out there.

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It's fair but IIRC gun violence was a cause Cody's taken up (does, uh, one tweet count?) for a while now, which is of course interesting what with the Bullet Club and all that. 

If people were sincere about that, they'd do the donations privately unless they really believe making it public would bring needed attention to a cause. But even then you can do that without talking about your own contributions.

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Motivations versus outcomes is a question ethicists and philosophers have wrestled with forever, but I do still think it’s important for people to run that calculus with their own actions and the businesses they support. I also think it’s useful to be perpetually skeptical of billionaires and business interests, and I’m sure I could find plenty of things Tony and his family support (directly or not) that make my skin crawl. But at least on the subject of queer representation, WWE’s progaganda for a regime that executes homosexuals and financial backing of politicians who oppose all manner of queer rights is too hypocritical for my liking, even while I’m glad Finn gets to be for everyone and Sonya can be safely and comfortably out. Consumption is tricky.

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In a perfect world, billionaires* and large corporations would do good quietly for the sake of doing good. But given a choice between "doing good for PR" and "not doing good" I'll take the PR. And then bitch about Nestle running commercials about giving Flint bottled water.

*A real perfect world wouldn't have billionaires, but I digress.

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They also need to avoid TNA's mistakes.

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30 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

*A real perfect world wouldn't have billionaires, but I digress.

This a billion times! 😉

Anyway, enough of that...

And yes, I agree with @D.Z they need to avoid TNA's mistakes, but it's safe to say they will because Jeff Jarrett is working with WWE at the moment and I'm sure Cody has no interest in Vince Russo.

So, yes, SCU will stay as SCU and not turn into SEX which was a horrible idea, but also was the name NWA-TNA and the entire deal.

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21 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

Motivations versus outcomes is a question ethicists and philosophers have wrestled with forever, but I do still think it’s important for people to run that calculus with their own actions and the businesses they support. I also think it’s useful to be perpetually skeptical of billionaires and business interests, and I’m sure I could find plenty of things Tony and his family support (directly or not) that make my skin crawl. But at least on the subject of queer representation, WWE’s progaganda for a regime that executes homosexuals and financial backing of politicians who oppose all manner of queer rights is too hypocritical for my liking, even while I’m glad Finn gets to be for everyone and Sonya can be safely and comfortably out. Consumption is tricky.

Shad donated to Trump's inauguration committee. My limited Google search skills turned that up, but everything else was critical of Trump coming from Shad (next to nothing about Tony's views or what he does with his money in terms of politics or charities). I don't know enough about football and the National Anthem protests, but apparently he supported the protests? Maybe I'm reading that wrong, someone more knowledgeable on football can correct me if I'm wrong on that. But, at this point, I'd be more surprised if a millionaire/billionaire didn't donate to the President, who is one of their own, who gave them a much needed tax break. But, anyway...

I think AEW is going to avoid the traps that TNA fell into early on. I mean, the ticket rally was also pretty much a further unveiling of their roster, and it didn't feature any "big time" ex-WWE employees, like a Ryback or something, or broken down older guys, like a Rob Van Dam, so they're golden on that front. And don't they want to avoid having writers? I swear I read that somewhere. But, uh, hey, they also "lied about giving their locker room health insurance", so they could be lying about anything and everything!

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I feel very confident they'll avoid TNA's mistake of trying to be WCW 2.0. I don't see AEW bringing in every WWF cast-off and pushing them immediately to the top of the card at the expense of guys already there. Do I think they'll try to bring in Jon Moxley? Yes, and they should. Do I think they'd go after a Mojo Rawley or Jinder Mahal if their contract were up? I doubt it. I also don't see them doing what WWE does. Being the opposite of WWE, the X-division, and tag wrestling is what TNA should have focused on instead of trying to out-WWE WWE.

I'm 100% positive there will be no sign of Russo, Ed Ferrara, Bischoff, Hogan, Dixie Carter or anyone else that damaged TNA and have permanently left their stink on Impact to the point it's still basically "LOLTNA".

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Dixie Carter is terrible.

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Meltzer has already said that Mojo Rawley (and Chad Gable) would benefit from a McIntyre-like run outside of WWE. I think if Mojo ever left WWE, that Cody and the Bucks would pick him up just based off that. I mean, whatever you feel about Meltzer - he knows his shit, and if he says that guy could benefit from working outside of the limitations of WWE, why not give it a shot?

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Mojo after his heel turn was cutting raaaad promos. I don't know if he's still not any good in the ring but you can work with a big ol' football player with promo skills like that. He'd be a great bully heel foil to the smaller babyfaces AEW is chock-full of.

I get people not wanting them to be TNA and pick up all of the released WWE talent but because of their hoarding, there are seriously great underused or not-used-at-all talents there that could thrive with a change of scenery. They need to be selective without sticking their nose up at ex-WWE workers.

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15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm 100% positive there will be no sign of Russo, Ed Ferrara, Bischoff, Hogan, Dixie Carter or anyone else that damaged TNA and have permanently left their stink on Impact to the point it's still basically "LOLTNA".

Even years before Bischoff, Hogan and Dixie, Jarrett and Russo were already doing that WWE ripoff garbage as WCW 2.0 in Nashville with Sports Entertainment Extreme -- SEX faction and with the XXX tag team and Jarrett running through all of them week in/week out and the fans pelting garbage in the ring when Jarrett beat Raven.

On guys like Mojo and Gable -- I would prefer Mojo to work in AEW and US indys and Gable to go for a New Japan run. I think his style would do wonders for him and would provide some quality matches.

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2 minutes ago, Casey said:

Meltzer has already said that Mojo Rawley (and Chad Gable) would benefit from a McIntyre-like run outside of WWE. I think if Mojo ever left WWE, that Cody and the Bucks would pick him up just based off that. I mean, whatever you feel about Meltzer - he knows his shit, and if he says that guy could benefit from working outside of the limitations of WWE, why not give it a shot?

Gable, definitely. I'm always skeptical of the non-wrestler turned wrestler trying the indies or Japan after their WWE run has ended. Maybe it's just my hang up over whether some of them love wrestling or just see it as a means to and end.

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1 minute ago, Edwin said:

Even years before Bischoff, Hogan and Dixie, Jarrett and Russo were already doing that WWE ripoff garbage as WCW 2.0 in Nashville with Sports Entertainment Extreme -- SEX faction and with the XXX tag team and Jarrett running through all of them week in/week out and the fans pelting garbage in the ring when Jarrett beat Raven.

On guys like Mojo and Gable -- I would prefer Mojo to work in AEW and US indys and Gable to go for a New Japan run. I think his style would do wonders for him and would provide some quality matches.

Sadly, I remember that all too well.

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Yuka Sakazaki came into wrestling not knowing much of anything about it, presumably like Mojo did. I don't understand the calling out of his "passion" for wrestling, or lack thereof, when we have no real knowledge of that. Lots of people came into wrestling, not even fans of it, but they became fans of it. Sonya Deville was one of those, actually.

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New episode of bte just posted. Tickets run from $36.70 to $211 for ringside. 

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Like I said, I guess it's my own hang up because I grew up a wrestling fan, and in my work life, I ended up in what was my preferred career choice rather than settling for something my heart isn't 100% into.

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