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All Elite Wrestling 2019

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They've sold out the one show they've officially announced. In 30 minutes. Your argument would hold water if this were before that, but it's not.

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Call me when they actually run that show,  it succeeds,  and they break even or run in the green with their ridiculous contracts.  Until that happens, their as likely to be Pro Wrestlings Fyre Festival as they are a legit #2. 

Until there's a actual show/match promoted and run under the AEW banner, they're a bunch of carnies barking at the Circus entrance to pull you in, and you're all buying it sight unseen.  They don't have a product to refer to yet.  Talk to me after Double or Nothing runs, then we can start talking about if they're #2.

 

Also, if we're using sales, NJPW/RoH jointly sold out a 20,000k plus building, AEW 12k, so, yeah, NJPW/RoH sold more than AEW's ONE show booked, and they've been around for decades.  Fuck this "AEW is #2" carny noise Meltzer is pushing. 

 

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"Never mind that shit, to the Monthly Thread!"

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Eh. The whole positioning of company overness is so subjective that it really just comes down to the semantics of personal qualifications. AEW is hot right now and both making and spending money. They do anything and it's news. I put them at two on the simple level that so many people are throwing money at them for shows and shirts and I don't hear a whole lot from ROH. At least in comparison to AEW talk. But, I can see that if actual shows (or even like you must pass this many events) counts for you then there ya go, AEW is unlistenable. You can reasonably see how both sides think, that this shouldn't really even be a big deal. 

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3 hours ago, Raziel said:

Call me when they actually run that show,  it succeeds,  and they break even or run in the green with their ridiculous contracts.  Until that happens, their as likely to be Pro Wrestlings Fyre Festival as they are a legit #2. 

Until there's a actual show/match promoted and run under the AEW banner, they're a bunch of carnies barking at the Circus entrance to pull you in, and you're all buying it sight unseen.  They don't have a product to refer to yet.  Talk to me after Double or Nothing runs, then we can start talking about if they're #2.

 

Also, if we're using sales, NJPW/RoH jointly sold out a 20,000k plus building, AEW 12k, so, yeah, NJPW/RoH sold more than AEW's ONE show booked, and they've been around for decades.  Fuck this "AEW is #2" carny noise Meltzer is pushing. 

 

NJPW/ROH sold out a 20k seat venue in NYC (on WM Weekend). How many of those people purchased tickets with the expectation that Omega, Jericho, Bucks, SCU, Cody, etc would be on the card? 10-15k? 

AEW broke all kinds of pro wrestling records in ticket sales both with the amount they sold in a day, how quickly they did it and if there’s even been a wrestling show that had a Vegas sellout.

AEW would not likely exist if All In had not been the success from a business and excitement level that it was. Now they have the backing of a billionaire business genius & wrestling conniosure with many of the top wrestling stars in the world that individually could probably out draw an ROH show head to head but as a collective can crush it all to hell.

I have no doubt they are turning a major profit. There merchandise is through the roof. They are probably pulling a million in ticket sales and will sell millions more in merch at DorN. Have big TV money coming, at least one more big event before the end of the year plus Jericho Cruise, Starrcast II money and more wrestlers coming too add to their merch revenue.

Id def say out of the gate they have the resources to be more successful

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21 minutes ago, OctopusCinema said:

To quote Ricky Bobby's dad, "If you ain't first, you're last."

If being around longer than everyone else is the criteria, KSW would be the #2 MMA promotion in addition to selling out arenas and stadiums in Poland and England. Nobody calls them the #2 MMA promotion in the world. Bellator runs various Indian casinos like the WinStar Casino in Thackerville, OK and the Kansas Star Arena in Mulvane, KS (to be fair, the latter is now a boxing hotbed for whatever reason) multiple times a year and it's the number #2 just because it has a deal with Paramount. They NEVER provide attendance numbers or gates and anything like that and they have been around ten years now this coming April. They would not be breaking even if they weren't owned by a media conglomerate. They're just number two because they are in the Elite XC/Strikeforce lineage. They never earned official #2 status.

There is a reason the sub forum is Theoretical #2 Feds.

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4 hours ago, OctopusCinema said:

To quote Ricky Bobby's dad, "If you ain't first, you're last."

That doesn't make any sense at all, first or last. You can be second, third, fourth... hell you can even be fifth.

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I'm not sure if running two big shows makes you #2. Even more so for NJPW who ran around 10 (I think?) various size shows over few years. I think you need consistency and product delivered on regular basis to even enter this conversation.

To me, when it comes to USA, only RoH and Impact at the moment are really in that conversation. Maybe MLW as well if it doesn't collapse in next couple of months due to all exclusives being thrown around.

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17 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Who has said they're #2 in the world? Dave isn't. The tweet he quoted was talking about ROH being #2 in the US. How are AEW not instantly the #2 promotion in the United States when they're selling out a 12,000 seat venue on their own (not piggybacking off of Mania and NJPW)? I expect they'll do 1500-2500 for weekly TV once they settle in, but that's conjecture. Still, are you really arguing they aren't going to be more popular than ROH, who's doing probably ~800-1000 at best for TV tapings now? I don't get it.

AEW doesn't have a TV deal. The only people actually saying they are even close to getting one are people who have it in their best interests to promote AEW as a very big deal. As we've all seen over the past few years, it really isn't that easy for wrestling promotions to get favorable TV deals. Until they put pen to paper and announce a deal, we can't be sure if the proverbial cat is alive or not.

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I agree that the tv deal will be the deciding factor and it’s tough to pick them at #2 right at this moment. But they are positioned far ahead of roh and impact as far as having a bright future. If they can get an 8 figure deal on a decent network they will be #2 for sure. It will be very interesting to see what ticket sales are like for new japan in Dallas in July. I think losing the elite hurts them in the us, and the creation of aew and the timing of double or nothing hurts this show. I’m thinking they draw 8-9k but I hope I’m wrong and it’s bigger than that. 

The madison square garden show was scaled at 15k when it sold out. They added some more seating but iirc those didn’t even sell out. It’s not close to 20k (not trying to take anything away from it at all, but that number keeps getting thrown around when it’s much closer to 15k). 

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Well folks past and present on this board won't like this then

 

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Uh, you guys... They're going against ROH, who's owned by a media conglomerate that doesn't give a shit about them and airs their show on syndicated TV on Saturdays at 11 PM (in the Seattle market, which I get in Vancouver), and NJPW on AXS. 12,000 people watched IMPACT on Pursuit. 

This is old and includes ROH's brief run on Destination America. ROH never seems to be in the TV ratings sections of Observers from 2017-19.

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This is what AEW will be running against. They'll be second by default if they get any sort of half-decent TV deal.

But Dave's coverage is sponsored tho so fuck 'em.

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16 hours ago, Bill S. Preston ESQ. said:

Have big TV money coming...

No, we don't know that yet.

Also, this:

4 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

AEW doesn't have a TV deal. The only people actually saying they are even close to getting one are people who have it in their best interests to promote AEW as a very big deal. As we've all seen over the past few years, it really isn't that easy for wrestling promotions to get favorable TV deals. Until they put pen to paper and announce a deal, we can't be sure if the proverbial cat is alive or not.

 

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Dave 'n' Garrett interviewed Jericho in more sponsored content for WOR's site.

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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Well folks past and present on this board won't like this then

 

Weren't most of the wrestling TV deals, relatively speaking, of rather low value? I think it doesn't say that much.

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47 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Weren't most of the wrestling TV deals, relatively speaking, of rather low value? I think it doesn't say that much.

It says they are valued higher than the rest. 

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There's no doubt in my mind that Meltzer is pulling for AEW to succeed, given that some of his favorite people in the industry are involved in it, and the fact that a new major promotion is bound to generate the kind of intrigue he makes a living reporting on (as we've already seen).

But is there any specific evidence that Meltzer hasn't been covering this story accurately? Has he gotten something wrong? Has he failed to report something that he should have? Has he spun anything especially blatantly? Or do people just have a general hunch that he's too close to those guys to be trusted?

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13 minutes ago, evanknight said:

It says they are valued higher than the rest. 

Which is what the conversation is all about. The competition is so weak that they don't even need a TV deal to be #2. They could just do monthly PPVs, as unsustainable as that would be, without TV and still be #2. They have the biggest stars of the competition, they sellout in minutes on their own, and they have merchandise in some Hot Topics before even running an official show.

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17 hours ago, MapRef41N93W said:

There's no doubt in my mind that Meltzer is pulling for AEW to succeed, given that some of his favorite people in the industry are involved in it, and the fact that a new major promotion is bound to generate the kind of intrigue he makes a living reporting on (as we've already seen).

But is there any specific evidence that Meltzer hasn't been covering this story accurately? Has he gotten something wrong? Has he failed to report something that he should have? Has he spun anything especially blatantly? Or do people just have a general hunch that he's too close to those guys to be trusted?

No wellness policy needed because barely anyone drinks was some cringeworthy spin from Meltzer. 

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43 minutes ago, Dewar said:

No wellness policy needed because barely anyone drinks was some cringeworthy spin from Meltzer. 

For the last time this isn't what he said. This is EXACTLY what he said word for word so we can put this to rest:

Quote

I'm not aware of that. So that I don't know. I mean it's funny because of the guys that they have, I mean, ah, those guys don't, err, most of those guys don't even drink, you know what I mean? It's like, I don't expect...but but um, yeah, I don't expect a wellness policy? But um, I suppose that if there was like um, develop problems, I, I would think there would be, but yeah...When I, you know, I mean, the road changes you, but it hasn't changed most of these guys. So um, I haven't heard a word about it, so I would say probably not.

This isn't him saying a wellness policy because barely anyone drinks. It's his speculation that they might not have one because it might not be needed considering that if most of their roster doesn't even drink then one could assume they're probably also not popping pills, juicing up, or taking other performance enhancers.

And even then Dave acknowledges that one might be needed at some point if they don't have one, but in his opinion, he doesn't think there would be one.

Again, this isn't Dave flatly saying there wouldn't be a wellness policy.

I wish people would stop acting like Dave is this company's publicist or take things he says out of context.

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How is WWE's wellness policy working out? It doesn't sound like it's stopping people from drinking.

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1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

How is WWE's wellness policy working out? It doesn't sound like it's stopping people from drinking.

Oh well who cares about that, let's misquote what Dave said for the umpteenth time. 

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Isn’t their big signing noted Grey Goose aficionado Chris Jericho?

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