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Kiss From Mandy Rose On A Graves - SDL - 2/5/2019


Dolfan in NYC

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8 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

I looked at the ratings, and what's noticeable is the steep decline of women watching the show. Someone broke it into layman terms: girls aged 12-17 are leaving in droves. Last week, apparently 55% of this demo stopped watching from Hour 1 to Hour 3. And they, along with all women, have been steadily losing interest since last Fall. 

Male viewership is actually up a bit. But the characters and stories currently being shown aren't keeping women in WWE's orbit. 

I can tell you why women are quitting but it's not an answer most would want to accept.

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

So who are the least trust worthy people in WWE to have hold that belt right now? I mean Riddle seems like a given.

 

1 hour ago, D.Z said:

1.841 million viewers.

All I know is, this is what *I* saw ...

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1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Board must be glitching. Where did this two year old comment come from? 

look she got a pop and a name chant when she threw 2 people out of the rumble IT CAN STILL HAPPEN

?

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42 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

The big thing with most women and their TV viewing is they want serialized stories with characters they either find aspirational and/or love-interest worthy. That's especially true of teenage girls and younger women. 

I would've thought Becky covers the aspirational part. Am I off base or is she not enough? And who's on Raw that's keeping them tuning in? Ronda? Finn?

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I can only by what I know, but I don't think Becky is hitting it off with women as much as we think. If you listen to the live chants, they're coming from deeper-toned voices. Men like Becky. I'm not saying Becky has not female fans, she certainly does. But she's bringing only a portion of that demo to the table.

WWE needs stars who can cover several demographics. Being loved by heterosexual Caucasian men who have watched wrestling for 25 years doesn't move the needle. Can you bring in women? Do children like you? What about non-white people? The LBGTQ community? Having one or two of those groups with you isn't enough.

Niners is being sarcastic on Roman, but he covers a lot of ground in terms of who WWE wants or needs to attract to their fanbase.

One can make a good argument that Sasha would bring in a lot more fans than Becky if in the same position.

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One thing is obvious: literally nobody is moving the needle right now. Becky is absurdly over with the crowd that is there, but she's not helping ratings. Rollins is over, but he's not helping ratings. Brock doesn't. Steph and Triple H don't. Cena doesn't. Vince did for a week or two but it didn't sustain at all.

When they in the throes of the TV contract negotiations, the big deal in their favor that got brought up a lot was that they were holding steady in the ratings year over year while virtually everything else was slipping. Remember the NFL ratings crisis that lasted all of one season before bouncing back strong this year? UFC was falling, which really helped WWE land Fox, etc etc.

My thoughts at the time was "okay, we've found the bottom, the level where the hardcores who will never stop watching rest. Then, pretty much right after the deals were done, the ratings started collapsing at a very bad rate. In a matter of a couple months, they went from being the one TV property that wasn't shedding viewers to losing ground faster than the average. They are now down into 94-95 level viewership, where they nearly went out of business. Except now they have $2 billion in US tv contracts, probably another half billion or more in international TV rights, and 50 or 100 or what million in blood money from the KSA, along with all their other smaller revenue streams, like the network, the ghost of ppv, merch, DVDs, etc.

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WWE is happy is with that anyway. They can carry on their vision without having to change too much for the next few years. Well everything but Smackdown soon.

To Vince, XFL will be priority number 1 in the coming years.

 

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1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Niners is being sarcastic on Roman, but he covers a lot of ground in terms of who WWE wants or needs to attract to their fanbase.

One can make a good argument that Sasha would bring in a lot more fans than Becky if in the same position.

I was only being half-sarcastic.  I like Roman.  I've hated his push at times but I like him.  I brought up Sasha's social media following (more followers than Becky, Charlotte etc.) last week but I don't want to be involved with that again this week.  I'll sit this one out. :)

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2 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

One thing is obvious: literally nobody is moving the needle right now. Becky is absurdly over with the crowd that is there, but she's not helping ratings. Rollins is over, but he's not helping ratings. Brock doesn't. Steph and Triple H don't. Cena doesn't. Vince did for a week or two but it didn't sustain at all.

When they in the throes of the TV contract negotiations, the big deal in their favor that got brought up a lot was that they were holding steady in the ratings year over year while virtually everything else was slipping. Remember the NFL ratings crisis that lasted all of one season before bouncing back strong this year? UFC was falling, which really helped WWE land Fox, etc etc.

My thoughts at the time was "okay, we've found the bottom, the level where the hardcores who will never stop watching rest. Then, pretty much right after the deals were done, the ratings started collapsing at a very bad rate. In a matter of a couple months, they went from being the one TV property that wasn't shedding viewers to losing ground faster than the average. They are now down into 94-95 level viewership, where they nearly went out of business. Except now they have $2 billion in US tv contracts, probably another half billion or more in international TV rights, and 50 or 100 or what million in blood money from the KSA, along with all their other smaller revenue streams, like the network, the ghost of ppv, merch, DVDs, etc.

Exactly this. NO ONE MOVES THE NEEDLE WITH ANY CONSISTENCY. The live crowds love the top acts being pushed, but at home, three hours is too fucking much. Shit, two hours is damn near too much.

Tell me this, if you just watched 6 to 7 hours of wrestling on Sunday and then started watching Raw on Monday, are you going to make it through it when there's practically zero compelling storylines? It's too much, way too much. Way way way way way way way way too much wrestling to watch. So by the time you get to Tuesday, of course the number isn't going to move much.

People are going to go watch some Twitch stream or play Fortnite or read a book or listen to a podcast or consume any other kind of media. WWE in its current state cannot compete. They're going to just keep bleeding viewers. I don't feel like wrestling itself can't compete, but if you're watching WWE at home, it's fucking awful. It's a chore to sit through so it's no wonder they keep losing viewers despite actually landing on some very compelling in ring acts.

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I'm going to move past my Roman/Aquaman point because I think an even better example is the Fast franchise. It was the first Hollywood franchise to really bring diversity to the table and I (along with many others who have said similar things) believe the Fast franchise is partially so damn popular because it's a huge diverse cast of characters. 

WWE has diversity on the roster but they still haven't had a black champion outside of The Rock and I guess Mark Henry but that was the secondary title and The Rock they like to look at as ambiguous.  

They do a shit job with pushing diversity IMO I believe SD had great ratings when Eddie was on top. 

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4 hours ago, D.Z said:

I can tell you why women are quitting but it's not an answer most would want to accept.

Are you going to fucking answer this or is this just another in a string of cryptic posts from you?

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20 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

One thing is obvious: literally nobody is moving the needle right now. Becky is absurdly over with the crowd that is there, but she's not helping ratings. Rollins is over, but he's not helping ratings. Brock doesn't. Steph and Triple H don't. Cena doesn't. Vince did for a week or two but it didn't sustain at all.

I remember Meltzer saying that the Braun/Roman stuff was doing well in ratings and some of the women's segments,   Cena segments.  But they've failed at capitalizing on momentum so many times over the years that nobody truly trusts creative to get it right.  

They've nearly struck gold several times since about 2005 or so but each time they either fuck up the angle/story with some unnecessary bullshit or they cut the legs out from the performers and nobody is viewed as a star.  

The Punk situation in 2011 was a perfect example of what I'm talking about.  He was getting some crossover play. I was seeing Punk pop up on shit in the media that usually didn't discuss wrestling.  They could have had Punk "gone" from WWE but defending the title on small indy shows or something, they could have ran a whole summer worth of programming surrounding Punk but they completely ruined it.  

They ruined Edge's RATED R SUPERSTAR deal that got over. That had good ratings but they went straight back to stale Cena.  

They ruined Nexus.  

They ruined Braun.  There's probably a dozen things that I'm forgetting. 

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Bryan's eco-warrior promos have bled over to social media and generated thousands of clicks, have those casuals tuned in to check out what's going on? Doesn't seem so. Mysterio has a huge Hispanic following. Andrade is there. New day are there. R-Truth is there. Mustafa Ali is there. Samoa Joe is there. Sonya represents LGBTQ. Nakamura is featured in a way more prominent position than his work suggests it should. Asuka is the womens champion. All of those of which aren't relegated to Main Event or whatever. There's plenty of diversity on the shows. Champion diversity all you want but the ratings tanked the other night.

Is a black champion going to suddenly create a boom in viewership? Don't be so naive. Like it or not, affirmative action will only drive away WWE's main demo, then you're really in a mess.

Sasha may have millions of instagram followers, so does Zack Ryder. Roman Reigns has 400 thousand. It really is an entry-level argument you're bringing to the table.

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23 minutes ago, Rick said:

Bryan's eco-warrior promos have bled over to social media and generated thousands of clicks, have those casuals tuned in to check out what's going on? Doesn't seem so. Mysterio has a huge Hispanic following. Andrade is there. New day are there. R-Truth is there. Mustafa Ali is there. Samoa Joe is there. Sonya represents LGBTQ. Nakamura is featured in a way more prominent position than his work suggests it should. Asuka is the womens champion. All of those of which aren't relegated to Main Event or whatever. There's plenty of diversity on the shows. Champion diversity all you want but the ratings tanked the other night.

Is a black champion going to suddenly create a boom in viewership? Don't be so naive. Like it or not, Affirmative action will only drive away WWE's main demo, then you're really in a mess.

Sasha may have millions of instagram followers, so does Zack Ryder. Roman Reigns has 400 thousand. It really is an entry-level argument you're bringing to the table.

You just said it.. all those acts are just there.  Why should a lapsed fan invest in characters that have no direction? No, a black champion isn't going to suddenly create a boom nobody is expecting a boom at this point.  It took over a year for WWE to gain viewers during the start of the Attitude Era.  Many of those angles that people look back on so fondly?  They were the start of something special but the change didn't happen overnight.  WWE has to be consistently great to gain back the trust.  

Also,  that Roman Reigns account has been on IG for like two weeks. It will have well into the millions soon enough. So,  not entry-level. Ryder has 1.4 million followers that's pretty standard for a guy in his position. The Miz has 2.3 million. 

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6 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

look she got a pop and a name chant when she threw 2 people out of the rumble IT CAN STILL HAPPEN

?

I know everyone has been(or were)waiting for Sasha to turn on Bayley to end the Boss and Hug connection, but if they turned Bayley instead, I think she can be salvaged. Not even a full heel, just a "I'm sick of this shit and I ain't playing nice anymore" edge to her. When she did kick Sasha's ass however many months ago that was, she did get a big pop. They could have something with her if they wanted.

And I will fully acknowledge that in order for this to work as it should, Bayley would have to improve roughly 500% on her interviews. BUT IT CAN HAPPEN

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37 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

You just said it.. all those acts are just there.  Why should a lapsed fan invest in characters that have no direction? No, a black champion isn't going to suddenly create a boom nobody is expecting a boom at this point.  It took over a year for WWE to gain viewers during the start of the Attitude Era.  Many of those angles that people look back on so fondly?  They were the start of something special but the change didn't happen overnight.  WWE has to be consistently great to gain back the trust.  

Also,  that Roman Reigns account has been on IG for like two weeks. It will have well into the millions soon enough. So,  not entry-level. 

That argument would be valid if smackdown was a melting pot of loose ends like Raw but it's consistently a very good show.

I do think there is a problem that WWE has a lot of bad ideas and the reason Bryan and Becky have taken off is they are both behind those creations. I think people are undercutting how intelligent Becky for example has taken a growing movement like #MeToo and incorporated it into the pro-wrestling framework. It's one thing merely stating Sasha could do whatever Becky's doing as good, if not better than she is. The question is why didn't Sasha think of it first? It isn't a persecution or a racial thing. If Sasha wasn't boo-boo facing all over social media and rather used it to mobilize a movement like Becky has than she might have exploded in the same way Becky did.

Going back to Burgendy's point on turning up the volume on minority groups. How is that possible without alienating your main demographic? The unfortunate reality is not every wrestling fan is susceptible to rapid change.

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1 minute ago, Phil4126 said:

I know everyone has been(or were)waiting for Sasha to turn on Bayley to end the Boss and Hug connection, but if they turned Bayley instead, I think she can be salvaged. Not even a full heel, just a "I'm sick of this shit and I ain't playing nice anymore" edge to her. When she did kick Sasha's ass however many months ago that was, she did get a big pop. They could have something with her if they wanted.

And I will fully acknowledge that in order for this to work as it should, Bayley would have to improve roughly 500% on her interviews. BUT IT CAN HAPPEN

this did occur to me for like half a second when I saw she essentially won the qualifying match by herself, since that could IN THEORY be used as foreshadowing for "Bayley is carrying the team" (and not just working around Sasha's current injury). 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Rick said:

That argument would be valid if smackdown was a melting pot of loose ends like Raw but it's consistently a very good show.

I do think there is a problem that WWE has a lot of bad ideas and the reason Bryan and Becky have taken off is they are both behind those creations. I think people are undercutting how intelligent Becky for example has taken a growing movement like #MeToo and incorporated it into the pro-wrestling framework. It's one thing merely stating Sasha could do whatever Becky's doing as good, if not better than she is. The question is why didn't Sasha think of it first? It isn't a persecution or a racial thing. If Sasha wasn't boo-boo facing all over social media and rather used it to mobilize a movement like Becky has than she might have exploded in the same way Becky did.

Going back to Burgendy's point on turning up the volume on minority groups. How is that possible without alienating your main demographic? The unfortunate reality is not every wrestling fan is susceptible to rapid change.

I guess this was meant for @Burgundy LaRue because I didn't say Sasha could have done the whole "MAN" deal.  I disagree with the "boo-boo" talking point that you and others keep bringing up..  Sasha's IG has very little of any type of creative criticism,  her account is mostly about fan interaction, her meet and greets she does,  like for Halloween she ran a contest and sent out prizes or it's just her and husband and their friends like Kalisto messing around having fun.  Becky has used Twitter exceeding well throughout all this too.  Her back and forth jabs while staying in character have been fantastic.  

I disagree with what you said about Smackdown being a consistently great show. It started off well enough but then it was bogged down for months with Jinder Mahal's title run that went nowhere and the James Elsworth crap that wore thin very quickly yet they kept going back to that well.  This current group of AJ, Bryan, Joe, Ali, Hardy etc. has been doing well but don't forget all the "Fuck Road Dogg" stuff on Twitter months prior.  When I say a show needs to be consistently great I mean it needs to be great for a long time. That's how any popular TV show gains a following. Like Breaking Bad. Nobody cared the first season or two. WWE's problem is they are throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks and then when you think maybe they've found the formula they start tinkering with it again. 

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