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The Man Comes Around - Raw - 2/4/2019


Dolfan in NYC

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1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:

It's only a problem if people actually bail - Eddie's in the RAW thread every week, if he's not going to stop watching then what difference does it make?

I had Raw on as background noise in case something worth seeing happened. I haven't said much about this episode because I wasn't paying attention. I also had on MLW, Being the Elite, and was cleaning up around the house. I mostly come to the Raw thread for the jokes. Remember when the DVDVR used to be lighthearted and fun? This place has taken a very negative tone lately.

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1 hour ago, hammerva said:

Oh all these people thinking there is no way Charlotte is winning at WM.  Remember when we all thought the same thing about Roman Reigns last year.    

EXACTLY. The people saying without a doubt Becky is winning apparently have a short enough memory forget that:

- Without a doubt, Roman is defeating Brock at WM 31.
- Without a doubt, Roman was going to get his moment and win his first title and look like the top guy...except for a few minutes later when Sheamus crushed him.
- Without a doubt, THIS TIME Roman would really beat Brock at WM 34.
- Ok, ok, ok, he may have lost there, but FOR SURE he's going to beat Brock at the Greatest Royal Rumble.

AND ROMAN REIGNS IS THEIR CHOSEN ONE! Look at how many times Roman had his legs cut out from underneath him with completely shit booking when he should have just outright won the world title and looked strong.

So if someone says that Becky is for sure winning, whether if she pins or submits Ronda or Charlotte, then you're either being disingenuous or you have a short memory or you trust WWE booking way more than you should. 

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9 hours ago, Eivion said:

The suspension stuff was weird, but I'm always up for Steph getting her ass kicked.


People who think the big problem with Steph's character is that she never gets her comeuppance should be way happier about this.

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6 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


People who think the big problem with Steph's character is that she never gets her comeuppance should be way happier about this.

Oh, I am! One of my friends was complaining non-stop about how Steph is going to put Becky and her place and it's going to suck and I was like, dude, Becky is going to beat the shit out of Steph. Other than Ronda, she's someone who can actually lay hands on Steph and 100% she's going to do it. The counter-argument was that they should build that up like they built up Austin giving Vince the stunner the first time, which at that point I threw my hands up because my buddy had just complained about them having one segment.

This is to say two things...One, not all wrestling fans are going to be happy with everything and two, what they'll actually receive is pretty good. I even thought that Becky will lay hands on Steph, she'll get a big reaction to that, she'll get banned from Raw for a period of time to at least keep Becky and Ronda apart, and it'll all work out. That's pretty much what happened. I'm totally satisfied.

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8 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


People who think the big problem with Steph's character is that she never gets her comeuppance should be way happier about this.

Yes but what was the main focus about the attack?  Steph kicking Becky's injured knee and whether she did it on purpose 

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12 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Charlotte gets added to the match to create an extra twist as well as protect Ronda from taking the pin. If she's really done for a while after WM, that gets the belt off Ronda but keeps the never pinned/submitted angle intact for later use.

Brock-Seth is....hard to call.

When Sasha and Bayley won that tag match before  RR they kinda made a big deal out of Sasha giving Ronda her first loss, if she's gonna be leaving let her lose clean because if she is gone she'll be out for atleast a year unless she immediately gets pregnant after she takes leave. Having Charlotte in kills the build for me. It's kinda like locking up and chain wrestling in a street fight. You can save Charlotte vs Becky for the following PPV

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3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I had Raw on as background noise in case something worth seeing happened. I haven't said much about this episode because I wasn't paying attention. I also had on MLW, Being the Elite, and was cleaning up around the house. I mostly come to the Raw thread for the jokes. Remember when the DVDVR used to be lighthearted and fun? This place has taken a very negative tone lately.

This is interesting. Had you considered that someone who barely watches the show stopping by to take a giant dump on the product out of sheer instinct might contribute to the "negative tone"? Or that the "negative tone" is nothing new as people with positive things to say about the product tend to get cannibalized in these post-Raw threads and have for years?

Though I do enjoy lighthearted fun. I miss the Seinfeld shitposts.

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

EXACTLY. The people saying without a doubt Becky is winning apparently have a short enough memory forget that:

 - Without a doubt, Roman is defeating Brock at WM 31.
- Without a doubt, Roman was going to get his moment and win his first title and look like the top guy...except for a few minutes later when Sheamus crushed him.
- Without a doubt, THIS TIME Roman would really beat Brock at WM 34.
- Ok, ok, ok, he may have lost there, but FOR SURE he's going to beat Brock at the Greatest Royal Rumble.

AND ROMAN REIGNS IS THEIR CHOSEN ONE! Look at how many times Roman had his legs cut out from underneath him with completely shit booking when he should have just outright won the world title and looked strong.

So if someone says that Becky is for sure winning, whether if she pins or submits Ronda or Charlotte, then you're either being disingenuous or you have a short memory or you trust WWE booking way more than you should. 

My memory is just fine and I'm perfectly genuine. One not sharing your pessimism doesn't call either of those things into question. 

This is a Bryan situation. They know it. They stuck the landing there (gymnastics about their original plans in 3... 2...). "BUT BUT BUT ROMAN" isn't worth listening to in this instance, especially when Ronda has not proven to be Brock's equal when it comes to jamming up a title scene.

4 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

I'd love to hear the argument from proponents of the Mania Triple Threat that Becky going over Charlotte and not beating Rousey would somehow be a better story and get Becky more over than the one-on-one match with Rousey.

I'm agnostic on this. She needs to win the big match. I think the matter of who takes the fall is immaterial to her popularity and credibility. There's good paranoia to go around regardless of who the third wheel is.

That of course won't be people's narrative. I realize that. 

If you're convinced it is important, I'm more than willing to hear that perspective. I just have a hard time seeing the importance.

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1 hour ago, James F'n X said:

..oh....oh god, I just had a thought. What if WM is Charlotte/Ronda and Becky/Steph?

I thought this exact same thing after that segment last night, but then realized there are two PPVs between now and Mania. I think there will be a match to set up a new challenger for Ronda at Mania and that's how Charlotte gets in. Becky is "suspended" for the next few weeks. She keeps showing up and getting in Steph's face about it and they will do a match with Steph at Fastlane, where if Becky beats Steph she is reinstated and put back in to the Mania match, and that's how we get to the Triple Threat Match.

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That would fit the beats of the Wrestlemania 30 Daniel Bryan story, just spread out rather than one-night: She beats Steph, he beat Triple H; winning gets them inserted into a triple threat with the company favorites, one of whom is the rightful/actual Rumble winner. Rousey also doesn't have a viable lieutenant yet for Becky to run through; 2/3 aren't ready, and Baszler is far too good and valuable in her own right to be a henchman.

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2 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I'm agnostic on this. She needs to win the big match. I think the matter of who takes the fall is immaterial to her popularity and credibility. There's good paranoia to go around regardless of who the third wheel is.

If you're convinced it is important, I'm more than willing to hear that perspective. I just have a hard time seeing the importance.

If Ronda walks out of the company without putting anyone over (which she can only really do by eating a fall), the last year of building her up as unbeatable seems like a pretty big waste. It would be the equivalent of Brock never putting anyone ever definitively - the whole roster looks like shit in comparison. It ties in to a larger problem WWE has had for years: the full-timers aren't treated as being important enough to displace the part-timers, and it brings the entire product down because the message being sent is that the "real" stars will only come around for the big shows. If Becky is to be the face of the women's division, she needs to specifically dethrone Ronda. There's also that all of the buildup and story seems to point towards an eventual Becky-Ronda one-on-one confrontation, and it would be very anticlimactic if it didn't happen. There's a way they could slow-burn it to SummerSlam or even Survivor Series if they had that option, but with Ronda reportedly gone after Mania, they don't have time to wait. 

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27 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

If Ronda walks out of the company without putting anyone over (which she can only really do by eating a fall), the last year of building her up as unbeatable seems like a pretty big waste. It would be the equivalent of Brock never putting anyone ever definitively - the whole roster looks like shit in comparison. It ties in to a larger problem WWE has had for years: the full-timers aren't treated as being important enough to displace the part-timers, and it brings the entire product down because the message being sent is that the "real" stars will only come around for the big shows. If Becky is to be the face of the women's division, she needs to specifically dethrone Ronda. There's also that all of the buildup and story seems to point towards an eventual Becky-Ronda one-on-one confrontation, and it would be very anticlimactic if it didn't happen. There's a way they could slow-burn it to SummerSlam or even Survivor Series if they had that option, but with Ronda reportedly gone after Mania, they don't have time to wait. 

I would suggest this is a misreading of the Brock problem. It isn't about him not putting anyone over definitively. That'd be nice, but it's not the single biggest problem as I see it. The big problem is he takes the big belt and disappears for months at a time so that there's no top guy. Then Rollins-Ziggler IC title drama gets treated like the biggest deal on the flagship show while we wait for Brock to finally get back and give that booty up. The waiting is more problematic than the not putting people over. 

If Ronda were to walk out without putting anyone over, it would certainly be disappointing. But then she's gone and we're not waiting on her to come back and pass the belt to the next person. The belt will be on our new top woman, Becky, who has the people behind her and had her big crowning moment at Mania. They can move on without Ronda and Becky'll be just as popular and credible in the eyes of your average fan who doesn't feel inclined to get into the weeds of who pinned or submitted who.  Ronda would have had her little run and she'd be happy with it and it'd just be people like us forever having the "what if" conversation that doesn't really matter. And whoever doesn't get pinned or submitted can challenge Becky later and there'll be plenty of Beckbeard paranoia to make it fun. 

As for the story and the buildup pointing to Becky vs Ronda one-on-one, why the non-finish at Survivor Series? Why have Ronda screw both Becky and Charlotte at TLC? Why continue to manufacture unfinished business with Becky and Charlotte? They've been building a triple threat this entire time.  

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Have they ever did a finish in a triple threat where both of the challengers had the champion simultaneously locked in submissions and the champion tapped out or passed out? Ronda passing out while locked in a cross arm breaker/figure eight combo at least provides them an out to have her lose without anybody individually defeating her. Then the match proceeds as a three-way elimination match normally would after they do the whole rigmarole of having Steph or whoever come down and declare there must be a winner between Becky and Charlotte. I mean they could just make it a three-way elimination match from the get go but they'd never pass up a chance to pile some more convoluted melodrama on top of a finish.    

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2 minutes ago, FluffSnackwell said:

Have they ever did a finish in a triple threat where the both of the challengers had the champion simultaneously locked in submissions and the champion tapped out or passed out? Ronda passing out while locked in a cross arm breaker/figure eight combo at least provides them an out to have her lose without anybody individually defeating her. Then the match proceeds as a three-way elimination match normally would after they do the whole rigmarole of having Steph or whoever come down and declare there must be a winner between Ronda and Charlotte. I mean they could just make it a three-way elimination match from the get go but they'd never pass up a chance to pile some more convoluted melodrama on top of a finish.    

I seem to remember them having done this finish once before. Can't remember where, though.

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2 minutes ago, FluffSnackwell said:

Have they ever did a finish in a triple threat where the both of the challengers had the champion simultaneously locked in submissions and the champion tapped out or passed out? Ronda passing out while locked in a cross arm breaker/figure eight combo at least provides them an out to have her lose without anybody individually defeating her. Then the match proceeds as a three-way elimination match normally would after they do the whole rigmarole of having Steph or whoever come down and declare there must be a winner between Ronda and Charlotte. I mean they could just make it a three-way elimination match from the get go but they'd never pass up a chance to pile some more convoluted melodrama on top of a finish.    

If your going to go with a Ronda passes out to double submissions. Why not just have the match end and have Becky and Charlotte wrestle at the next ppv for the Raw Women's title?

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