MORELOCK Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 58 minutes ago, The Natural said: Really??? I disagree with you that Sasha Banks gets love more because she's an Eddie Guerrero fan than her actual work. I like that Sasha Banks' favourite wrestler is Eddie but the biggest draw to me about Banks is her work inside the ropes. I think it's why people have the tendency to go overboard in their love - rating her more highly than people that I don't think she measures up to at all in-ring (all three other Horsewomen and Asuka, for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I'd say there was a time around her feud with Bayley in NXT and Charlotte on Raw that you could absolutely rate Sasha as one of the best in WWE's skewed modern history version of the women's division (circa Sunny to present). But since then she hasn't had a lot to work with and what little she got she didn't seem enthused by and that really hurt her, plus the influx of talented women means she has far more competition. And she does reach for some spots that are a little beyond her but a lot of male wrestlers do that all the time, like Apollo Crews taking a couple of tries to press slam Lashley. Shit, Charlotte wiffs most of her big dives too. Wrestlers try things to make moments and they don't always pan out, Sasha is no different than anyone else. And Joe deserves a world title run for sure but they need a transitional face to get the title on him. A final Jeff Hardy run is perfect. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 33 minutes ago, Godfrey said: And she does reach for some spots that are a little beyond her but a lot of male wrestlers do that all the time, like Apollo Crews taking a couple of tries to press slam Lashley. Shit, Charlotte wiffs most of her big dives too. Wrestlers try things to make moments and they don't always pan out, Sasha is no different than anyone else. The difference is I've literally never seen anyone on this board praise Apollo's work at all, let alone say he's one of the best in the company. Charlotte gets torn to *s h r e d s* when she makes a mistake because of how WWE overpushes her, but she's still been consistently better on the mic and in the ring for the duration of their time on the main roster. People will bend over backwards to make excuses for Sasha in that regard, saying she hasn't had opportunities (not true) or she's rightly uninspired by the booking (not an excuse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, MORELOCK said: The difference is I've literally never seen anyone on this board praise Apollo's work at all, let alone say he's one of the best in the company. Charlotte gets torn to *s h r e d s* when she makes a mistake because of how WWE overpushes her, but she's still been consistently better on the mic and in the ring for the duration of their time on the main roster. People will bend over backwards to make excuses for Sasha in that regard, saying she hasn't had opportunities (not true) or she's rightly uninspired by the booking (not an excuse). Fair enough, Charlotte does catch a lot of heat and Sasha doesn't, but I don't think that makes Sasha any less of a performer when it comes down to it. On the other hand, you could absolutely point to times when Sasha was phoning it in while Charlotte hasn't as much or at all. Whether that has anything to do with their position on the card is really immaterial if everyone is being professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I was never a big enough Eddie fan to allow that to distort my vision. I truly believe Sasha has a better resume than most of the female competitors and I believe she has the "it" factor and they aren't doing enough. She should be a superstar, she appeals to every demographic I can think of and despite her lack of opportunities of late she has nearly 4 million IG followers, she always has more merch in the stands than Charlotte, I think sasha's whole run on the main roster is a missed opportunity. I'm fine if people disagree with any of that but some of it is based on fact, it's not all just my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 12 hours ago, MORELOCK said: but Sasha's botches take me out of every single one of her matches (including the highly-praised Rumble match with Ronda) and there isn't another female performer on the MR I can say that about. I can't imagine holding botches against Sasha (only thing that springs to mind is the Nia apron rana thing) and not Bayley who I feel has way more on a regular basis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 There are so many but this one takes the cake. Look, I know everybody botches from time to time. My shucky ducky quack quack of the week Kenny Omega started off one of my favourite matches of all time with a weirdly blown leap frog vs. Ishii this past summer. But this is next level stuff and isn't all that rare. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Can we just have a running WWE women’s thread where these eternal arguments can take place and not continually bog down other topics? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 What fruitful conversation was interrupted? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, odessasteps said: Can we just have a running WWE women’s thread where these eternal arguments can take place and not continually bog down other topics? I don't think a women's thread is necessary but you're right about the debates wearing thin. Who would have thought 5 years ago that women's wrestling could spawn such debate? That's a pretty big indicator that this women's revolution worked. Thank you Papa H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil4126 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Oyaji said: There are so many but this one takes the cake. Look, I know everybody botches from time to time. My shucky ducky quack quack of the week Kenny Omega started off one of my favourite matches of all time with a weirdly blown leap frog vs. Ishii this past summer. But this is next level stuff and isn't all that rare. Holy shit....I love Bayley far more then most, but YIKES 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I don't know why it's so hard to believe that people just think Sasha is a great worker. I never knew that was such a controversial opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I don't think a women's thread is necessary but you're right about the debates wearing thin. Who would have thought 5 years ago that women's wrestling could spawn such debate? That's a pretty big indicator that this women's revolution worked. Thank you Papa H. Yeah, it’s no different than all of the other running arguments we have here. Hashtag equality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 53 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said: I don't know why it's so hard to believe that people just think Sasha is a great worker. I never knew that was such a controversial opinion. Because I've seen her work for the last three years, and I've seen people on this board take on extremely positive (and negative) opinions on specific wrestlers without their work necessarily being able to back it up for almost 20 years. It isn't that I don't like Sasha. I enjoyed the NXT stuff with Becky and Bayley as much as anyone. But either the PC rehearsals made those matches or her work has seriously deteriorated since the call-up, to the point where the narrative of "Sasha is a super worker being held down" doesn't really make sense anymore. There's only so much you can blame on the booking and agents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 You have to have blinders to pretend that Charlotte didn’t have bad matches on a regular basis prior to Becky having her big turn. Sasha on the other hand had to deal with Alexa being “The Gal” for the past couple of years. But when she wasn’t lined up with her, she was showing up a lot of the main roster women. I’m thankful Vince came to his senses, and didn’t keep booking the other shitty worker(Carmella) as the top star on the Smackdown side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 And here I sit alone. #feeltheglow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: You have to have blinders to pretend that Charlotte didn’t have bad matches on a regular basis prior to Becky having her big turn. Sasha on the other hand had to deal with Alexa being “The Gal” for the past couple of years. But when she wasn’t lined up with her, she was showing up a lot of the main roster women. I’m thankful Vince came to his senses, and didn’t keep booking the other shitty worker(Carmella) as the top star on the Smackdown side. This is a pretty good example of "Charlotte gets raked over the coals for not dragging great matches out of Carmella (and the good matches that followed were all Becky's doing) but Sasha is in no way responsible for her bad matches with Alexa," which is basically the exact double-standard attitude I've been describing. And no, no blinders - Charlotte didn't botch her way through the last three years of matches. The match with Asuka stands out as being far better than any main roster Sasha match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Charlotte didn’t botch her way through her 3,000 title reigns, but she did have a bunch of bad matches outside of the good Sasha matches. Also Sasha Vs. Asuka from Raw was actually a lot better than Charlotte Vs. Asuka from WM. The only reason it’s looked on a lot better than most women’s matches was that it was a major moment in Asuka’s WWE run, and it was the best match on a really shitty Wrestlemania. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 41 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: Charlotte didn’t botch her way through her 3,000 title reigns, but she did have a bunch of bad matches outside of the good Sasha matches. Also Sasha Vs. Asuka from Raw was actually a lot better than Charlotte Vs. Asuka from WM. The only reason it’s looked on a lot better than most women’s matches was that it was a major moment in Asuka’s WWE run, and it was the best match on a really shitty Wrestlemania. Heh, so just to summarize some of these arguments: 1. Everything Charlotte does outside of Sasha/Becky/Asuka isn't very good and what she does with them is good because of them. 2. Everything good Sasha does is good because she's a super worker and anything bad she's involved with is either someone else's fault or there's someone else in the company that sucks worse at it, so it's fine. I think we have hit a conversational wall here, and I am totally cool with us going back to whatever hyper-interesting fantasy booking conversation was happening in the Mania thread two months before the show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I'm just glad that others took the reins. My back was hurting from carrying the load against the Sasha Banks detractors. Surely there is something else to discuss about this show like how I am starting to have this feeling that Brock is RETAINING against Rollins. I feel that's gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I'm just glad that others took the reins. My back was hurting from carrying the load against the Sasha Banks detractors. Surely there is something else to discuss about this show like how I am starting to have this feeling that Brock is RETAINING against Rollins. I feel that's gonna happen. If the rumors of AEW trying to get Brock are true, then yeah it’s looking more, and more likely. Honestly no one feels worthy. Not even a returning Reigns. This is the companies fault for booking the belt on a part-timer like Brock who feels more special than everybody else. They had years to book someone special, but they decided to book everybody since Brock, 50/50 because no one should be bigger than the company after he quit. Isn’t that ironic? I’m actually quite proud of him for working Vince like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Nobody can fault Brock, he's more effective at milking Vince than anyone ever. I would have been intrigued by BEAST vs. DEMON, the story was there. But I guess they aren't ready to give Finn the ball so it is what it is. Braun doesn't feel worthy. I wouldn't have minded them running Brock vs. Joe back again. That was fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: If the rumors of AEW trying to get Brock are true, then yeah it’s looking more, and more likely. Honestly no one feels worthy. Not even a returning Reigns. This is the companies fault for booking the belt on a part-timer like Brock who feels more special than everybody else. They had years to book someone special, but they decided to book everybody since Brock, 50/50 because no one should be bigger than the company after he quit. Isn’t that ironic? I’m actually quite proud of him for working Vince like that. If Roman Reigns returning from a second battle with leukemia and being featured in an A-list Hollywood action film isn't good for you, why should any wrestler try to entertain you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Who saw that one coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I'm just glad that others took the reins. My back was hurting from carrying the load against the Sasha Banks detractors. Surely there is something else to discuss about this show like how I am starting to have this feeling that Brock is RETAINING against Rollins. I feel that's gonna happen. I've literally being called stupid and ignorant for liking Roman Reigns on this very board. You'll survive someone not being in love with Sasha Banks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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