The USADA/Fighter Pay Thread (That Deontay Wilder Money Edition)

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[kenyabaxterZXW]

 

[supremebve]

6 minutes ago, kenyabaxterZXW said:

 

There needs to be some sort of way for the board to alert us that, "This is not about Jon Jones," when someone updates this thread so soon after one of his fights.

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, supremebve said:

There needs to be some sort of way for the board to alert us that, "This is not about Jon Jones," when someone updates this thread so soon after one of his fights.

Next time it's a big name, I'm starting a new thread. Don't worry.

[The Natural]

On 2/11/2020 at 10:02 PM, supremebve said:

There needs to be some sort of way for the board to alert us that, "This is not about Jon Jones," when someone updates this thread so soon after one of his fights.

 

On 2/11/2020 at 10:09 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Next time it's a big name, I'm starting a new thread. Don't worry.

This.

[The Natural]

Four or five drug test failures now? Jesus, Josh. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

46 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Four or five drug test failures now? Jesus, Josh. 

Did some digging

Some things here:

1. I only see one source and it's BJPenn.com via FRB/Fight Oracle. One other website basically copied and pasted that onto their website. 

2. MMAFighting put this up and then promptly took it down cause now it's a 404 error page.

3. It's been four or five days and no one has stepped forward to confirm this. We do have someone from the commission say he hasn't been removed from the card.

So we need to back up off this for a moment. Also, we have to be careful putting stuff in this thread that may or may not be true. I would wait for official confirmation.

 

[The Natural]

Thank you. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

I like how we went from "Fuck Jon Jones...he don't deserve more money. HE AIN'T CONOR MCGREGOR" to Jorge Masvidal to now this....

This is how feel right about now

 

[Jiji]

I don't even think it's a bad thing for him to actually retire right now because I doubt he has too many big wins left in him. I don't see it sticking though (unless he's going to jail). 

But yeah, pay them. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[TheVileOne]

This is literally the fourth time McGregor has done this. If he is actually serious this time, I mean all the best to him I suppose. 

[MavsFan77]

9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

And this is why some people shouldn’t get paid more no matter what any member of this board tries claiming. 

Did UFC force Jorge into signing a new deal? Hell no. Could he have asked for more, and possibly got it when he negotiated this deal? Definitely. So to come out whining, and crying just like JJ did he can piss off. Clearly either he or his representation don’t know how to negotiate a proper deal.

And this argument of oh they offered less money than he got for fighting Nate. Well which fight draws more buys? Nate or Usman? And if that requires more than a second of thinking it’s being done wrong. All he’s required to be offered is whatever fee (let’s say it’s 500,000 to show, and 500,000 to win) his deal is for. So if UFC paid more for the Diaz fight that’s fair, and obviously Jorge didn’t turn it down. But if they’re offering only a slight bump in that for an Usman fight, so what? He signed this deal. Either honor it, or sit at home. 

Hell Chael mentioned the other night on Ariel and The Bad Guy about the PPV money still getting paid out to champions based on the buys. So if Jorge-Usman does 500,000 buys then Jorge would be getting at minimum an extra 500,000 based on that as the smallest rate I’ve seen reported is $1 per buy for champions (which I’m under the impression his BMF title does get PPV points). 

Edited June 7, 2020 by MavsFan77
Autocorrect screwed up a word

[jaedmc]

Fighters renegotiate their deal when they get pull. And for the top fighters it seems to happen every fight. UFC has set the precedent for this. I don't see why this upsets you. I would recommend not giving a fuck about it in the future.

[Craig H]

Conor is going to be like the Terry Funk of MMA with all of his retirements at this rate.

[Jiji]

Any time he's not the centre of attention and doesn't have a fight lined up.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1. I've never heard of anyone getting a reported half million dollars in a win bonus. I think they cap it around $200k. Maybe it goes up a quarter million/ Anytime the show money is above a certain amount, it's usually a flat fee. Just looking at the all the PPVs in the ESPN+ era:

• UFC 249 (Ferguson - $500k flat)
• UFC 248 (Adesanya - $500k flat, Romero - $350k flat)
• UFC 247 (Jones - $500k flat, Reyes - $350k flat)
• UFC 246 (McGregor - $3m flat)
• UFC 245 (Usman - $500k flat, Covington - $500k flat, Holloway - $350k flat, Volkanovski - $250k flat, Nunes - $350k show/100k win, Aldo - $400k flat)
• UFC 244 (Masvidal - $500k flat, Diaz - $500k flat, Till - $120k show/$120k win, Thompson - $120k show/$120k win, Lewis - $140k show/$140k win)
• UFC 243 - (Adesanya - $400k flat, Whittaker - $400k flat)
• UFC 242 - (Khabib - estimated $6m flat, Poirier - $250k flat)
• UFC 241 - (Miocic - $750k flat, Cormier - $500k flat, Diaz - $250k flat)
• UFC 240 - (Holloway - $350k flat, Edgar - $250k flat)
• UFC 239 - (Jones - $500k flat, Marreta - $350k flat, Nunes - $300k show/$200k win, Holm - $300k flat)
• UFC 238 - (Cejudo - $350k flat, Valentina - $105k show/$105k win)
• UFC 237 - (A. Silva - $600k flat)
• UFC 236 - (Poirier - $250k flat, Holloway - $350k flat, Adesanya - $350k flat)
• UFC 235 (Jones - $500k flat, A. Smith - $350k flat, Usman - $350k flat, Woodley - $500k flat, Askren - $200k win/$150k win)
• UFC 234  (A. Silva - $600k flat)

2. The BMF belt is not a real championship. It was a one off thing. So both Nate and Jorge got PPV points for that one fight. I'm pretty sure that was the only way that fight was gonna happen.

 

[MavsFan77]

8 hours ago, jaedmc said:

Fighters renegotiate their deal when they get pull. And for the top fighters it seems to happen every fight. UFC has set the precedent for this. I don't see why this upsets you. I would recommend not giving a fuck about it in the future.

Masvidal (if Dana is to be believed) just signed an 8 fight contract before fighting Nate. So if he thought he was worth millions per fight then why didn’t he demand it then? Since he was coming off that amazing KO of Askren and his win over Darren Till. That’s why I don’t feel bad for him. He’s being a whiny brat, and wanting pity from fans that make way less per year than he makes in one fight. But yeah he’s a “real athlete.”

To simplify it if he was a real athlete he’d honor the deal he signed, and not try to win over the general public. Look at the NFL for example. Owners there are netting more money per year than any other sport, and their reigning league MVP is making a paltry 1.34 million this coming season. But that’s what Lamar Jackson signed for as a late first round pick. 

Whats the difference between him and Jorge? Oh wait I know. Lamar is acting like a grownup, taking his small salary, and knowing he’ll get paid when his deal is up. But hey he’s worthy of making way more than 1.34 million so using your logic he should bitch and moan about the deal he’d agreed to, and expect the Ravens to cave, and pay him.

[Jiji]

Are you comparing the contract situations of an employee with that of an independent contractor?

[jaedmc]

It's not my logic. I didn't invent it. They are playing a game that the UFC has allowed its fighters to play. As long as a Union doesn't form(which won't) this type of negotiation/renegotiation game of chicken is actually in the UFC's best interest. To actually take sides in this owner sanctioned act of transgression, which at this stage is merely performative, seems a foolish and unsatisfying endeavor.

[Elsalvajeloco]

The NFL shares a ridiculous amount (vs. the UFC) of revenue with the teams. So in the front end vs. back end argument, the NFL is much more, much more reliable when it comes to that. So yeah, Lamar will take whatever because he's going to get what? $40 million a year maybe and probably 100 million+ fully guaranteed over the life of the deal when it's all said and done. That's a multiplier of what? 30x? Let's just say Jorge got a couple million for UFC 244. He ain't getting 60 million dollars. Plus, in the NFL (and NBA if you look at someone like a Mike Conley Jr.), there is a good number of people getting grossly overpaid (not that I have a problem with that since it ain't my money). However, either way, the NFLPA, the NBPA, and MLBPA are there to negotiate on behalf of the players. So there is at least some type of balancing the scales. Moreover, if people knew what Lamar Jackson or a Dak Prescott were, not only would they be drafted much higher but they would be given the allotted maximum rookie contract given their talent level. Plus, you have the franchise tag. If such a thing existed in the UFC, but on a one or two fight basis calculated based on the top contracts in the UFC, most of the notable fighters would be making much more not less. Even then, actual NFL players DON'T want to play under the franchise tag. So all this real athlete shit is garbage. 

Also, UFC did dig that hole and likely promise whoever won the BMF title bout a lot more money coming out of that bout. You're not getting millions for beating Darren Till or Ben Askren. However, the UFC will do some outlandish shit by creating a one off belt just so the fight can happen. Hell, I'm pretty sure they promised McGregor more money after the Cerrone fight. McGregor is talking about making $80 million (which Meltzer adamantly refuted when he said that) for 246. It did one million buys. I'm not a math genius, but I'm going to hazard a guess and say he didn't get 120% of the PPV revenue generated from the Cerrone fight. Moveover, if UFC is getting a flat fee themselves for ESPN+ PPVs (in the neighborhood of 15-16m per PPV according to Meltzer & John S. Nash among others), you're telling me that Conor McGregor and not ESPN is getting the rest? ESPN pockets that money. UFC still gets the foreign + commercial (sports bars/restaurants) PPV cuts which made up 15% of their PPV revenue. So if anything, whatever gets paid to the fighters if they're still doling out PPV points (mind you have to reach a certain threshold to get), it's out of the amount given to the UFC from the fee they were already getting. Is Conor McGregor getting half of that $15-16m given to UFC? No. They would be stupid to make just 7.5 to 8 million on a show that did a million buys. Did McGregor get a discretionary sum from UFC 246 not from the NSAC reported payout of $3m? There is a pretty good chance. According to the anti-trust fillings, he got $2.11m for the Mendes fight at UFC 189 on top of whatever he made that was reported. It's still a fraction of what he likely feels like he should be getting.

Another thing regarding PPV points...doing a little further research apparently Lesnar went for a flat guarantee rather than PPV points in his contract. So that $2.5 million he got at UFC 200 is what he actually got. So PPV points were barely a thing pre ESPN+, and in this era would be pretty much nonexistent. The only way this is going to get settled is if the UFC eliminates this front end/back end stuff. The fighters inherently know they won't get paid on the back end. The only feasible compromise I see being made without unionization is more money with a smaller number of fights on the deal. You don't want to pay me for 6 or 8 fights? Fine, but you're going to have to pay me for 3 or 4. Then after that deal, we go back to the negotiating table. If I'm worth less, you pay me less. If I'm worth more, you pay me more. If the UFC doesn't want to do that, they're going to be in quite a pickle. Yes, they're still going to get that large flat fee for their PPVs on top of the money from the Fight Nights. However, the break even for ESPN on these PPVs is around 234k per PPV. If you lose all your stars (and they didn't have many to begin with), they're not reaching that mark. So when this current TV/PPV distribution deal is up, are they just gonna float by on how much they got on this deal? Cause they have a sizeable debt that needs to be serviced. Plus, they gain from being a hot commodity. You're not getting that from Nunes vs. Spencer or Volkanovski vs. Holloway II or Usman vs. Gilbert Burns. If they didn't need to be one, they would not have made the move to get McGregor back or Nate Diaz back. Yes, Dana can pump fake and say everyone can stay at home. However, they have a relationship with ESPN to maintain. If they want it to stay healthy (since ESPN relies on the health of the UFC for their OTT service and linear channels), they need to put on big fights. 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco

[Elsalvajeloco]

To steal a line from a semi-famous person from Louisville, "Wouldn't you know who won the pony!"

So on the latest edition of WOR (the NXT IYH recap), ole Dave Meltzer confirmed two things I mentioned last night:

1. The UFC gets $16.67 million per PPV no matter what the show does.

2. The fighters don't get any type of compensation from ESPN. Any money the fighters would get comes from the UFC. So the whole "but PPV points though" doesn't really apply now. ESPN is the only distributor if you're counting only domestic buys which makes up the vast majority of the PPV buys.