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ROYAL RUMBLE 2019 POST SHOW THREAD


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1 minute ago, SorceressKnight said:

But that ties into the other part of "do they want a top guy", period: WWE has NO ONE like that right now. There's no one in WWE the crowd  NEEDS to win. (Heck, even with Becky Lynch, there's too much of it where Becky's stans NEED her to win, but quite frankly, EVERY woman's stans NEED their woman to win, and there's no real consensus even there...which ties into the "the women can be stars, the men can't": The women have so many people who'll go "YAAAASSS QUEEN SLAAAAAYYY!" to anything positive that they do that they'll seem like stars, even if they're basically booked like the men are.) 

 

I just want to know what the Japanese announce table thought when she did her entrance, considering that character was "Balrog" in Japan.

I feel like this is getting overblown. Becky is more over than any of the other women by a pretty considerable margin. The moment everyone saw Lana limping, the whole building (except the one guy that was right by the microphone) started chanting for Becky. The place came fucking unglued when she won. That was a top guy reaction. Becky is probably third or fourth on my personal list of favorite main roster women, but she's so clearly ahead of Sasha and Bayley in terms of reaction that it doesn't matter if I like them more. She's The Man (pun both intended and not necessary) and she's treated as such by crowds.

----

I feel like I've read about the Balrog thing before, but I only vaguely remember it.

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Anyone shitting on Bryan/AJ crowd reaction can fuck right the fuck off. Crowd had been there since like three o'clock and were between Rumbles.

And speaking of which, yeah, line of the night was during the Elias bit when Graves said, "WE'VE BEEN HERE FOUR AND A HALF HOURS AND HE'S TAKING HIS TIME" or whatever.

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2 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said:

 

And speaking of which, yeah, line of the night was during the Elias bit when Graves said, "WE'VE BEEN HERE FOUR AND A HALF HOURS AND HE'S TAKING HIS TIME" or whatever.

I literally said "we have time for this?" like five seconds before that. 

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Even if Becky isn't your favorite, I think the fans of the other women feel like she's well a top act enough that they respect her.   Austin fans never felt like the Rock was an unworthy champion, and vice versa.  When you have multiple pillars, that allows you to rotate a bit more, and right now WWE has at least four pillars for women with Becky, Asuka, Ronda, and Charlotte.  I'd argue that their bench is almost as good as NJPW's right now.

If WWE did an all women's show it would probably outdo the men's show at this point every week.

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The Glorious Ones vs. Dawson/Rezar was nice enough but pointless with the Roode/Gable winning.

Nakamura/Rusev was ok.

4-way cruiserweight title match was a fun spotfest.

Becky/Asuka was great. Surprised to see Becky lose clean, but I loved the finish.

Shane/Miz vs. the Bar was actually pretty solid. Shane hitting a more or less perfect shooting star press is kind of insane considering his size and age.

Rousey/Sasha was awesome and the best Sasha has looked in years.

Women's Rumble was good, better than last year's. I thought it was good that they were able to rely on more than nostalgia, and there was plenty of good storytelling moments, especially at the end. Have to say though that you definitely felt the length. I assume the match went on here so the crowd reactions would still be strong, but it definitely felt like the main event with Becky's victory.

Bryan/AJ was easily their worst match and still kind of solid. This wasn't the type of match to have right after the rumble, and the dead crowd hurt it a tremendous amount. Rowan interfering felt weird as fuck though I can't complain if Rowan and Harper will be Bryan's lackeys.

Finn/Brock was fantastic and the best either guy has looked in a long while. The post match attack on Finn was nice for pushing the idea of how much of a threat Brock clearly sees Finn as. That said it was also the type of thing that makes you want a rematch, making it an odd choice since there was no way in hell they were redo rumble finishes in one night.

The men's Rumble was solid. Honestly, the pacing felt better than what we got with the women, and I thought it had a fair share of neat moments. Still didn't have the same level of story telling we got with the women, and Rollins win was flat. The Nia stuff was more awkward than actively bad. I didn't dislike it though I think it would have worked better if they let her eliminate one more person after Ali. The weak reaction to Rollins win wasn't surprising. While I do think the crowd was tired, I also think the crowd has been cooling on Seth for a while now, and he really hasn't had anything that has fired them up again for him like Finn has. This was definitely the Rumble they should have gone with something different/surprising for the winner since Ronda/Becky is the main event.

Overall, I thought this was a good show. Wasn't as consistent as Takeover from the night before, but I liked Asuka/Becky, Ronda/Sasha, & Finn/Brock more than anything at Takeover.  Only real sour points for me as Bryan/AJ and the ending of the Men's Rumble.

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Problem is they don't have enough top level women on the main rosters yet. They did a good job rehabbing Asuka and Sasha. I think they should figure out something with Naomi or Ember Moon too.  

Ember needs a complete reinvention. She has no character to really grab onto, and its been her weak point even going back to NXT. She was able to manage there because of the type of audience NXT attracts. With the main roster she needs more. I agree about them needing to do more with Naomi. Despite being over she hasn't really been given a feature match or feud yet. The current one with Mandy isn't going to be the one that pushes her to the next level.

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Ember also hasn't really gotten the big feature match to showcase what she can do. Between Asuka and Shayna, she had four great Takeover matches. She's never been given the chance on the main roster.

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4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Ember also hasn't really gotten the big feature match to showcase what she can do. Between Asuka and Shayna, she had four great Takeover matches. She's never been given the chance on the main roster.

That wouldn't fix the overall lack of investment the audience has in her. In other words even if she gets a featured match if the crowd doesn't give a shit about her in the first place it won't really help much. That investment is what helps those matches become big deals in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Greggulator said:

The show ruled.

I loved the little steps they took to get to the perfect ending for the woman’s Rumble. First they had Lana get hurt in the Rusev pre-show match. Then Becky loses against Asuka in a shock, but did so in a matter that made people just want her to win the Rumble more. The she edges Lana out of the way and enters and beats her two biggest rivals in the process, despite being put through a table. Just a perfect wrestling moment. And there is an easy way to write Charlotte into the WM match and make it a three way - Becky was an illegal entrant or some such. And Asuka is also once again a world beater. 

Sasha/Rousey ruled. That was exactly what I thought and hoped it would be.

Also: We remarked how Vega should do an Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez gimmick.

It was smart booking, because it simultaneously gives Charlotte a legitimate technicality (Becky wasn't in the match, she'd already lost a match, Fit's not a high enough authority to make that call etc: ) , but also makes it completely obvious that she's the heel in the situation by bringing it up, given they had Becky replace an injured face, ask Fit first, appeal to the fans loving her, play the underdog, etc.  The facial expressions from both her and Becky throughout the closing sequence were of course expert, though it does amuse me that the last several months have basically been her putting Becky over again and again and again, and Becky beating her up on the rare occasions (Summerslam, SSD), she does win.

Also, we need a full Charlotte/Kairi match some day.

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6 minutes ago, Eivion said:

That wouldn't fix the overall lack of investment the audience has in her. In other words even if she gets a featured match if the crowd doesn't give a shit about her in the first place it won't really help much. That investment is what helps those matches become big deals in the first place.

Sometimes. Sometimes great matches is what gets a crowd invested in people. 

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3 hours ago, BEN! said:

Becky Lynch and Nia Jax both entered themselves in the last spot in matches they weren't even supposed to be in.  Tunney wouldn't have let this occur.  Why would anyone bother to draw a number and enter legally when you can just show up when you want?

Charlotte Flair probably goes to WrestleMania on a technicality cause she was the last legal entrant standing.  Which makes her look like a heel despite again doing nothing wrong unlike cheating ass sore loser Becky Lynch who lost her title match and then stole the Rumble win.  And you need a 3-way cause if they really want to main event with the women then they're going to have to do a ton of press and Lynch doing puns and calling herself "The Man" will probably play poorly and Rousey is just batshit and will start going off about time travel so it's up to Flair to come off as the likeable one.

And Mickie James was who they needed in there directing traffic but they tossed her super early for some reason.

As over as Becky is, I think her tendency to do almost all of her interviews (even things like podcasts) in strict kayfabe is something that doesn't play well outside wrestling fans.

 

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

This is a really interesting tweet--Charlotte's paraphrasing a line from Don Quixote: " The phoenix hope , can wing her way through the desert skies , and still defying fortune's spite; revive from ashes and rise."

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42 minutes ago, alstein said:

Even if Becky isn't your favorite, I think the fans of the other women feel like she's well a top act enough that they respect her.   Austin fans never felt like the Rock was an unworthy champion, and vice versa.  When you have multiple pillars, that allows you to rotate a bit more, and right now WWE has at least four pillars for women with Becky, Asuka, Ronda, and Charlotte.  I'd argue that their bench is almost as good as NJPW's right now.

If WWE did an all women's show it would probably outdo the men's show at this point every week.

Right now I accept Becky Lynch as more of a company ace than Seth Rollins. I want Rousey/Lynch as the Mania main event over Rollins/Lesnar. The Lesnar act is garbage and has run its course at WrestleMania. 

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The women's matches on the show were amazing. Becky/Asuka might be in my top 5 ever. Ronda/Sasha was pretty damn good as well. There are so many directions they can go into Mania with the women and somehow I fear they'll screw it all up.

Poor Lana. She and Rusev really deserve better. 

I think I know how they're gonna shoehorn Charlotte into this match. She'll argue Becky was not an official entrant despite Fit Finlay saying she could enter. They fight it out to determine who gets the match. A no contest later and we have a three way.

If there was ever a night to pull the trigger on a Brock loss, tonight was it.

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If they didn’t job Seth to Ziggler, I think people would be singing a different tune. Not that I think this board would change it’s mind about him winning it. He’s the new HBK around here in someways. But I think people would be more excepting of it, and the live reaction would be different, since he still had that momentum of being “On fire”. I understood they needed to get the belt off of him, but Elias was right there for that, and he was a hot heel prospect that you could’ve continued in that role. Massive mistakes made prior to Mania, but that’s typical.

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The Double J stuff is pretty embarrassing all around. I'm sure he's glad to get the attention, but from the Pritchard podcast on him, you get the sense that Bruce (and thus probably Vince) feel like the only thing he ever did that mattered was that gimmick. That's blatantly false. Not counting 1993's "Don't I have a bunch of famous friends!" babyface gimmick in USWA, the only thing that was less memorable was the Aztec gear NWA champ thing from 98. Double J was a mid-card smarmy heel act during the period when business was down. It was one-trick, made no real sense, had no real memorable feuds (though at least 1-2 memorable matches) and he walked out on it anyway. 

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WWE being the last bastion of Inokiism isn't something I ever expected, but here we are, and "is pro wrestling strong enough to beat the shooters!?" consistently produces the most compelling matches on every big card.

At least, it does when Brock feels like making the effort and deviating a bit from suplex city's most comfortable indulgences, as he did here. Finn did everything right, too, from aiming his shotgun dropkicks a little lower to hitting a sling blade that looked like a useful attack. The post match was... well, I'm not sure it really matters either way. Maybe that's an indictment--everything should matter--but I think the crowd is comfortable writing off some things as Brock's excesses.

I thought the stranger decision was having Sasha tap outside the ring; conventional wisdom dictates Rousey should get the visual fall to protect her somehow, but of course she went on to win anyway. Still, I thought this was the best match of the night, and a great reminder that Sasha can put together a match. (This was a point Rousey made in an interview a while ago, calling herself a skilled musician, but Sasha a skilled composer.) I thought the post-match stuff worked really well here, as opposed to Brock/Finn. We know Sasha has a history of sentimental moments on such occasions--even after losing--and Rousey, who still has a lot of fan in her, wanted one of those moments for herself. That Sasha denied her that is a nice "you're still not one of us" message.

I don't mind Becky tapping clean, because title matches should have clean finishes as often as possible, and this was a good one. You do have to be careful about beating people just because they can take the loss, but Asuka really needed this, and it contributed to Becky's night-as-career story really well: She falls just short; an opportunity presents itself; she takes advantage as the fans celebrate her inclusion/elevation; she has to overcome Nia; she has to overcome being hurt by Nia; and of course, finally, she has to beat Charlotte. The women's rumble was really sloppy at times but ultimately was far more narratively coherent and satisfying than the men's--which mostly got me excited for matches that aren't happening--owing largely to this late-stage focus.

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