Critically Acclaimed Shows vs. Mainstream Success Shows

[Victator]

 

 

 

Ironic that Whedon makes shows for major networks with higher ratings requirements instead of trying a cable network.I think a Whedon HBO show would expose him though.

 

In the case of the last two shows,

 

SHIELD is owned by Marvel, which is owned by Disney, which owns ABC.

 

Dollhouse was commissioned because Eliza Dushku had a deal with Fox.

 

The guy's had 15+ years of television. What the fuck more do you need to "expose" somebody?

 

Maybe directing one of the most popular movies of all time. I guarantee you Avengers would have been a train wreck directed by anyone else. 

 

 

Define train wreck in this scenario.

 

Most likely whatever that Superman vs Batman movie ends up being. Mainly the action would be bad, the characters would get uneven amounts of time and the continuity would be shit.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

First, the example hasn't even start prinicipal photography yet. So that's a pretty vague answer.

 

Second, there are plenty of directors who would be capable of not doing that.

[Bustronaut]

Mainly the action would be bad, the characters would get uneven amounts of time and the continuity would be shit.  

So THE AVENGERS, then

[Petey]

 

Mainly the action would be bad, the characters would get uneven amounts of time and the continuity would be shit. 

 

So THE AVENGERS, then

 

[supremebve]

 

 I think it is kind of like people who claim they love food, but order well done steak. 

 

Probably because they hate having the runs. 

 

You are going to the wrong restaurants, especially when it is fairly well known that restaurants usually only cook scraps and leftovers well done. 

[Cristobal]

I feel like unrestrained, untouched Whedon, with all the freedom of cable would basically show everyone that he's not as good as everyone thinks. Moreover, that he's not as good as he thinks.

 

 

[HumanChessgame]

 

 

 I think it is kind of like people who claim they love food, but order well done steak. 

 

Probably because they hate having the runs. 

 

You are going to the wrong restaurants, especially when it is fairly well known that restaurants usually only cook scraps and leftovers well done. 

 

[Victator]

 

Mainly the action would be bad, the characters would get uneven amounts of time and the continuity would be shit.  

So THE AVENGERS, then

 

Can you even credibly back that up?  That is some Donna Douglas/Pig People shit right there.

[Reed]

The biggest reason for the difference between the critically acclaimed shows and mainstream success shows is that, at the end of the day: People DON'T CARE.

 

Shows that are critically acclaimed, by nature, tend to be the shows that you do have to CARE about in order to really enjoy them. The fanbases love their show of choice and can't get enough of it- and we see from Netflix that these shows eventually find their legs on DVD [where people who do care about the show can get long marathons in of it and immerse themselves in the show.]

 

These people who do care, however, are the minority and they always will be. The vast majority of TV viewers will always be the person who just got home from a long day at work and just wants to turn their brain off and just laugh [for sitcoms], or [for dramas] have a chance to be led into things, but still feel smart by being a step ahead of the characters onscreen for the finish.  

 

I would disagree that the majority of people don't care and just want mindless TV. Things like itunes, netflix, DVR, didn't take off and make billions of dollars just because they were a "cult" thing. TV's in a golden age right now and people often hang out, talking about their favourite shows. Heck, these days you seem to be in the minority if you haven't seen Breaking Bad.

 

I bet your average Joe Six Pack (apologies if I sound like Sarah Palin) as at least one show he follows keenly and is interested in, even if the rest of the time he's watching NCIS or The Big Bang Theory. There are too many choices out there for them not to be.

[mco543]

For the Average Joe Six Pack the show they follow keenly probably IS NCIS or Big Bang Theory or a reality competition like The Voice or X-Factor.

[Reed]

For some of them, sure. Although I think stuff like CSI and NCIS are simply too generic for anyone to truly consider them must-see TV (We have to see the next episode! Mark Harmon might look sad and say something vaguely deep after he's arrested someone!)

 

For the record, at one point 20 million people were watching Twin Peaks, which was essentially high brow arthouse cinema turned into a TV show and about as far away from the likes of NCIS or The Big Bang Theory as you can get. Even by today's standards, that show was out there. And it was still a massive hit.

 

Absolutely, your average casual viewer is more open to smart TV than they're given credit for.

[supremebve]

For some of them, sure. Although I think stuff like CSI and NCIS are simply too generic for anyone to truly consider them must-see TV (We have to see the next episode! Mark Harmon might look sad and say something vaguely deep after he's arrested someone!)

 

For the record, at one point 20 million people were watching Twin Peaks, which was essentially high brow arthouse cinema turned into a TV show and about as far away from the likes of NCIS or The Big Bang Theory as you can get. Even by today's standards, that show was out there. And it was still a massive hit.

 

Absolutely, your average casual viewer is more open to smart TV than they're given credit for.

You clearly don't see everyone's point.  Sure there are a lot of people who watch Breaking Bad and other critically acclaimed shows, but compared to the shows you claim "are too generic for anyone to consider them must-see TV" next to no one watches them.  The people sitting around talking about Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, or The Wire are a huge minority.  Most people have never watched a single episode of these shows, but almost everyone has watched an episode of CSI or NCIS.  There was a week or two back when Breaking Bad and Boardwalk Empire lost to a rain delay of the Sunday Night Football game.  Here is an example of how poor the ratings are in comparison.  The Breaking Bad finale, that seemingly everyone was talking about peaked at 10.3 million viewers.  Friday's Blue Bloods, that absolutely no one has talked about, averaged 11.09 viewers.  Friday at 10 pm is about as bad of a time slot you can get, Sunday at 9 pm is one of the best and they beat Breaking Bad by almost a million viewers. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

A lot of people gave up on cable in recent years so they don't get AMC. I would assume that if you count television viewers, illegal downloads and Netflix...  Breaking Bad has more viewers.

[supremebve]

A lot of people gave up on cable in recent years so they don't get AMC. I would assume that if you count television viewers, illegal downloads and Netflix...  Breaking Bad has more viewers.

You are changing the discussion.  The conversation was about how despite all the water cooler talk about these critically acclaimed shows, they have poor ratings compared to The Big Bang Theories of the world.  If everyone watches the shows on Netflix and illegal downloads it is irrelevant to the conversation.  More people will probably end up watching Breaking Bad over the next few years because it is evergreen, but it won't ever reach Big Bang Theory numbers.  20+ million people watch The Big Bang Theory live every single week, they are syndicated on multiple channels, and even the reruns get good ratings.  As good as Breaking Bad and all these other shows are, the majority of television viewers don't give a rat's ass. 

[Victator]

Yeah but at some point you are comparing a Model T to a Jet. The old ratings system is busted and yesterdays news. I have never watched Breaking Bad, but it is popular in a way that transcends the old clunky ratings system. Hell you go back years and Family Guy blew up on DVD when it supposedly had a small audience. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

 I know people who watch The Big Bang Theory obviously but they don't watch it every week. They might DVR it and catch it later or they might not. They aren't really concerned about missing an episode. I think there's something to a show like Breaking Bad being "must-see". That's another reason why it receives more water cooler discussion. The people who watched it care about it more. Nobody at school or work ever says "man, did you SEE Big Bang theory last night!?"

[Execproducer]

 

A lot of people gave up on cable in recent years so they don't get AMC. I would assume that if you count television viewers, illegal downloads and Netflix...  Breaking Bad has more viewers.

You are changing the discussion.  The conversation was about how despite all the water cooler talk about these critically acclaimed shows, they have poor ratings compared to The Big Bang Theories of the world.  If everyone watches the shows on Netflix and illegal downloads it is irrelevant to the conversation.  More people will probably end up watching Breaking Bad over the next few years because it is evergreen, but it won't ever reach Big Bang Theory numbers.  20+ million people watch The Big Bang Theory live every single week, they are syndicated on multiple channels, and even the reruns get good ratings.  As good as Breaking Bad and all these other shows are, the majority of television viewers don't give a rat's ass.

Forget about people who 'gave up on cable', something like 40% of the television watching U.S. has never had cable. Of course BBT smokes Breaking Bad.

[SLL]

So...the thesis statement to this entire thread is....

 

 

But The Big Bang Theory’s success shouldn’t be surprising. Like Raymond, it’s about how people are rather than how people would like to be.

Huh?

 

So, as a nerd, I've had BBT recommended to me by people several times, presumably because I'd appreciate it for the above reason. Every time I've watched it, I've come away with the impression that the people behind the show know nothing about nerds. They've heard of nerds. They might have seen nerds in passing, or interacted with them superficially at some point. They're obviously not hateful towards nerds....

 

 

For a show some people say is making fun of nerd culture, they've had the characters all hook up with chicks, and a couple of hot ones at that.

...as Johnny correctly pointed out.

 

But they made a show about nerds and nerd culture with all the genuine understanding of their subject matter that I would if you asked me to make a show about...I dunno...riot grrls and riot grrl culture. Which is to say I could probably present a vague but recognizable outline, and beyond that, any resemblance to actual riot grrls living or dead would be entirely coincidental.

 

So the thesis statement....

 

 

it’s about how people are

 

....might be better phrased as "it's about how people perceive things to be". In which case, Everybody Loves Raymond seems like a questionable point of comparison, especially if you're gonna follow that line with....

 

And that formula beats comedies about smug and confident characters every time.

Raymond wasn't a comedy about smug and confident characters?

 

But Raymond could sort of be passed off as "how people are". It presented a situation most viewers were familiar with, and usually didn't get too outlandish. It doesn't really fit as a comparison to Big Bang Theory, which presents an unfamiliar situation that it gets viewers to relate to, not by portraying it as it is, but how people perceive it to be. The better comparison would be something like "Will & Grace"...which is basically to say that it's a minstrel show. A benign minstrel show, mind you, but my point is that they both trade on popular perception of a subculture rather than "how people are".

 

I think any further discussion of the merits of traditionally-defined "mainstream successful" shows vs. "critically successful" shows has to at least start with the acknowledgement that the thesis statement here is faulty at best.

[MarcosLoura]

I read the OP and about 3 replies. My shit giving meter on this topic -> almost zero.

BUT

 

I need to post one of my all time favorite picture from the internetz.

 

 

 

EDIT: I just read SLL's great post. Which makes my shit comment even better. Hmm hmm hmmm.