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AEW - 2019


Dolfan in NYC

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5 minutes ago, OctopusCinema said:

I guess MJF is too recently signed to be my example. Maybe Flip Gordon fits the bill. Annoying dork that just wants to be in the group. The underdog story of him not getting booked in All In due to certain members of the group not wanting him in. Comes in the battle royal in a mask, surprise win, reveal, crowd went nuts. The storyline got him over. They used YouTube, twitter, hashtags, shirts, etc. Now imagine they have a tv show to do that. 

Again, we have a small sample size. Or at least I do because I jumped in on BTE during the Cody vs Kenny storyline for the leader of the group. A storyline that made me a fan of Cody, when I was lukewarm on him before that. 

No you’re right. And I love that story.

I guess what I’m saying is I would like to have a “setup” for that so we have a full story. Having Flip debut as the annoying dork, have some vignettes building him a such prior to the debut, have him act that way during matches and in vignettes..... and THEN have him start the interaction with Cody and co. Introduce us to the character, have the character stand alone, and THEN initiate that sort of interaction.

And they may very well do that on a TV show. I hope that they do but I’m not sure. 

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6 minutes ago, Thibs said:

I disagree with some of that. People have been repackaged when going from promotion to promotion forever, even in recent history and it has been successful— EC3 In Impact being an example. You certainly don’t need to have them from the start to build a distinct character from start to finish.

I think we're making a semantic distinction. Wrestling is now more of an "in medias res" character medium than 10-15 years ago. You need to define who the character is now, but that can--and often is--done by acknowledging a previous "start" and not retconning it. And I'd argue this approach has a longer history than outright repackaging. For the most part there was some character consistency from territory to territory; someone might turn heel or face, and you needed to define why they were in this territory right now; but there was rarely any pretese that they were anyone other than who they'd been in other parts of the country. When the Midnight Express came to town, the Midnight Express came to town.

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16 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

I think we're making a semantic distinction. Wrestling is now more of an "in medias res" character medium than 10-15 years ago. You need to define who the character is now, but that can--and often is--done by acknowledging a previous "start" and not retconning it. And I'd argue this approach has a longer history than outright repackaging. For the most part there was some character consistency from territory to territory; someone might turn heel or face, and you needed to define why they were in this territory right now; but there was rarely any pretese that they were anyone other than who they'd been in other parts of the country. When the Midnight Express came to town, the Midnight Express came to town.

That definitely was the case in the territory days. But most of that fell to the wayside once national television came into play. 

I think you can point to examples of both being successful. Steve Austin, arguably the biggest star ever, got repackaged not once but TWICE in the WWF and became a mega star. 

Foley was repackaged as Mankind— which more or less wasn’t far off from what he was doing in other places— but he was introduced with vignettes, a backstory, etc. He wasn’t just thrown out there with a “That’s so and so” line from the announcers.

I guess what I’m saying is that you need to make decisions on a case by case basis. But when you’re dealing with young talent that have never been exposed to a national TV audience, you’d be better served to give them distinct characters (which can be based on what they’ve been doing on the indies and they can even have the same names), build them through vignettes and introduce them to an audience that’s never seen them, instead of acting like everyone should know who they are which imo can come off slightly arrogant. 

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Pretty much a combination of what you're both saying. When done right, you use both pre-debut introductions and/or slow build of actions post-debut to define/ create a character. There is multiple ways to make fans care about a character. 

EC3 is a good example of someone showing up that you don't have reason to buy into. But NXT has people that used their pre-WWE persona to get over. Samoa Joe is the biggest example. 

One thing to take into account, the pitched theory of AEW is that wrestlers will have more control of their characters. The assumption is that wrestlers are going to be more comfortable and natural working with their personality that they've developed. They haven't even had a show yet. I don't see people signing exclusive(ish) contracts and having to become like a Highway patrolman named Denny. The goal shouldn't be to re-package, but introduce in an effective way. Once they're an actual company with a show that's when they have enough leverage to make gimmicks. 

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The key in there is “introducing”. I don’t have a problem with using the same characters people have been using.... assuming its an effective character and not just a nickname. 

But you need to have an introduction and a starting point, for ppl that aren’t familiar with these guys. 

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I'd go even further. I'd reintroduce everyone every single week just in case new people are tuning in. Don't progress characters too much ever because it would risk alienating new viewers. Maybe even break things down and over-explain the rules of basic professional wrestling matches so people that aren't familiar with it can follow along. The key here is holding viewers' hands as much as possible. 

Definitely end the shows on a big cliffhanger to keep people tuning in every week. But don't address it too much the next week. First-time viewers won't know what's going on.

Man, storytelling sure is hard. I don't know how these inexperienced newcomers will manage. Maybe they need someone with real proven experience in episodic television?

giphy.gif 

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I think that currently popular approach of simple introduction like "Thats X!" works in something like RoH because its audience is basically smarks so they'll be familiar with wrestlers from other places or will simply google them later. But casual viewer (or simply someone who watches/watched WWE) won't really care enough to start googling them out and they never probably heard that there even are wrestlers outside of WWE.

As for jokes about stupid audience and how things shouldn't progress... Nobody is saying that. Just that they need compelling introduction for their guys that they could easily air on first few TV shows and later upload them to Youtube or whatever else for people to easily access and get the idea of what this or that wrestler is about.

And this is not really something new concerning The Elite. I remember when Bullet Club civil war started between Cody and Omega we discussed in this forum how whole BTE format makes it difficult for new fans to fully get what is going on here and how it all started. And how years later nobody will be able to experience how we experienced it. But since whole thing ended up being kinda shit and pointless it is not a big loss.

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6 minutes ago, OctopusCinema said:

Note to self: compelling is necessary. 

You make a great point that a lot of wrestling fans are missing these days: If you want people to watch your show, you need to make a show people want to watch. And sometimes that means not always emphasizing a pure-sports approach. Just look at the NFL: They'll get their biggest ratings of the year on Sunday, but it's not about football. It's about larger-than-life characters like Maroon 5 and Tom Brady and the spectacle of Tom's larger-than-life jacket. 

Going back to the AEW announcer situation, does anybody know when Tony Romo is a free agent? Khan's got enough money to spend, so I can't see why he wouldn't be interested.

 

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5 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

You make a great point that a lot of wrestling fans are missing these days: If you want people to watch your show, you need to make a show people want to watch. And sometimes that means not always emphasizing a pure-sports approach. Just look at the NFL: They'll get their biggest ratings of the year on Sunday, but it's not about football. It's about larger-than-life characters like Maroon 5 and Tom Brady and the spectacle of Tom's larger-than-life jacket. 

 

Of all the cliches you’ve made note of in your last couple posts I’m glad you saved the best for last— that wrestling’s just like a real sport ?.

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Just now, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Speaking of Jericho tweets, this one gives me pause.

Is his enthusiasm about BIKINIS meant to suggest that female performers were presented better in the Attitude Era? I'll have to go back and look at records from two decades ago before I can decide what to think about this.

Ryan Satin beat you to it. 

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Please, he only typed BIKINIS because he realised not to hit send while it still said BOOBIES.

Impact debuted the Rascalz with vignettes and they got over quick. They debuted Ethan Page by having him just show up and we knew who he was, and... I still don't know who he is.

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Just now, Thibs said:

Why would he need a compelling introduction? Its the indie internet age, everyone knows who everyone is 

That's not true. The big problem is the way people are introduced today. And it's not just wrestling. I went to a networking event last week, and nobody knows how to do a compelling introduction anymore.  Nobody even arrived on their very own star-spangled tour bus. It was disgraceful. 

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Just now, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

That's not true. The big problem is the way people are introduced today. And it's not just wrestling. I went to a networking event last week, and nobody knows how to do a compelling introduction anymore.  Nobody even arrived on their very own star-spangled tour bus. It was disgraceful. 

They just assumed you knew them from other networking events. Since anyone who attends a networking event also attends any and all other networking events that those same people also attended. 

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5 minutes ago, Thibs said:

They just assumed you knew them from other networking events. Since anyone who attends a networking event also attends any and all other networking events that those same people also attended. 

I did bring up the issue of compelling introductions to quite a few people. It was suggested to me that my repeated insistence on compelling introductions diminished all meaning the words have. Eventually, people got wind that I was the guy who kept insisting on compelling introductions and they started avoiding me. I think a lot of people were doing that because of what Dave was saying.

Edit: Sorry for not being clear. Dave is a recruiter for one of the big new firms in the industry.

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