Beech27 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 New Japan is an interesting point of reference, regarding wins/losses. It’s certainly emphasized year-round, and there are tournaments with points and records, where pinning a champ means you get to challenge them—but they bring up Jericho, who is 2-2 during this current run with the company, and still a huge deal. So you have to be careful and contextualize the record. Ideally you’d get to a point where a fan could invest in your big events and still be elated or angry a year later because Naito lost, or recognize that Jay White beating a shorts-wearing Okada is a huge deal. The challenge is that New Japan operates in an ecosystem where the vast majority of matches are expected to be relatively consequence free, and I don’t think AEW can ever tour on faction tags exclusively. Although even then... I mean, Sanada hasn’t been pinned in any match since the G1, who pins who can decide title shots, brawling can lead to special singles matches, etc., so you can still make those little things add up. And it doesn’t look like the company will really be touring soon anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, AxB said: Early 90s WCW didn't fail. It just turned into mid 90s WCW, and then became late 90s WCW, and then that died. Three completely different things. I started watching Being The Elite last week. Starting with episode one. It's a travel vlog... but by the third one, they're already doing skits. I mean what’s your definition of not failing? It was a money losing venture. And I’m not saying all of it was bad or won’t be able to work today. I just think they need to combine it with the right characters and most importantly, a compelling week to week show that sucks people in. The weekly show can’t simply be guys talking about being the best and wanting to win the belt every week. It needs to be episodic. That, combined with a sports feel, can work IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Backing up to the question about the other puro companies, they are all definitely a lot smaller than New Japan. But Kenny and, if he winds up part of it, Ibushi are definitely big enough deals in Japan that NOAH or AJPW would almost certainly be more than willing to make a deal if AEW wanted to. Hell, the Bucks are always really over in Japan as well. All Japan is at a point where a big main event can sell out Korakuen, and Miyahara vs either of the Lovers would be a huge main event. It would be a step down for The Elite, but it would be a way to stay in the Japanese scene and maybe help prop up another company, get some extra talent in for your big shows, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 NOAH and W-1 would be a better fit for AEW. Both in style and size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 You’re right that they’d be a huge get—both are at least top ten draws in Japan individually—but, while I’m basing this on nothing solid, I don’t think Kenny or Kota wrestle for either of those companies. Pac and Stronghearts are already links to Dragon Gate and Wrestle-1, which, especially when combined with DDT (where the Golden Lovers have sold out big buildings), are collectively bigger than either member of the once big three. (DDT and Dragon Gate are bigger on their own, honestly. Big Japan might be too.) All of this is to say, any Japanese company would be crazy to turn down Kenny or Kota, which is why I don’t think New Japan will. But if they did, I think we might see more of an indie alliance than linking with the older guard. But I have no idea! And give me any combo of Kenny/Kota/Kenoh/Nakajima/Kento. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 AJP Is bigger than BJW and NOAH and W-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edwin Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'm all for AEW working with DDT if it gets Antonio Honda on TV in America and if they reform the aWo, Italian Four Horsemen or Metal Vampire with Dick Togo, TAKA Michinoku and MJF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 42 minutes ago, D.Z said: AJP Is bigger than BJW and NOAH and W-1. For sure. I’d hit reply before you’d posted though, and not clarified to whom and to what I was replying, so now in order to clarify I’m posting way too often on this page—but at least I’m quoting this time. (But yeah, point was that DDT and Dragon Gate are bigger than All Japan and NOAH at the moment. I think BJW is close to both, but eh. W-1 can hang out so long as they have Stronghearts as a hot act.) In order to salvage this digression... I wonder how a company having a streaming service will work with AEW’s deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 58 minutes ago, Beech27 said: You’re right that they’d be a huge get—both are at least top ten draws in Japan individually—but, while I’m basing this on nothing solid, I don’t think Kenny or Kota wrestle for either of those companies. Pac and Stronghearts are already links to Dragon Gate and Wrestle-1, which, especially when combined with DDT (where the Golden Lovers have sold out big buildings), are collectively bigger than either member of the once big three. (DDT and Dragon Gate are bigger on their own, honestly. Big Japan might be too.) All of this is to say, any Japanese company would be crazy to turn down Kenny or Kota, which is why I don’t think New Japan will. But if they did, I think we might see more of an indie alliance than linking with the older guard. But I have no idea! And give me any combo of Kenny/Kota/Kenoh/Nakajima/Kento. I see a big sticking point being the G1. Two of your best guys if not the best are unavailable for more than a month and guaranteed to return banged up and probably not too anxious to wrestle when they return ASAP. Ibushi is probably batshit crazy enough, but I doubt Omega wants to do that EVERY year. New Japan would have to offer Omega crazy money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'm not sure what you mean by BJW and W-1. Anyway AEW should use more gimmicks matches on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 It's risky. Omega isn't going to go work a big NJPW match and half ass it it'd be a bad situation if Kenny worked Japan, got injured and then was off AEW television for months. I understand AEW wanting to work with all these other promotions but a network isn't going to be too happy if talent is getting hurt on overseas shit that has nothing to do with the weekly AEW television show. AEW will find out quickly that networks will stick their nose in their business and will not be afraid to "contribute." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: It's risky. Omega isn't going to go work a big NJPW match and half ass it it'd be a bad situation if Kenny worked Japan, got injured and then was off AEW television for months. I understand AEW wanting to work with all these other promotions but a network isn't going to be too happy if talent is getting hurt on overseas shit that has nothing to do with the weekly AEW television show. AEW will find out quickly that networks will stick their nose in their business and will not be afraid to "contribute." This. Especially if its a big time network like Turner. They’re going to have to walk a tight rope in a variety of different ways, including the product itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 They would send people below the main event overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 DDT is already the second biggest company in Japan and I think the VOW guys were talking about them potentially planning a Tokyo Dome show in the future. If they could work a deal out with AEW, the Dome would become viable immediately. Also: Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1.) My point was just any company in Japan would likely take them gladly 2.) Stop trying to ruin my dreams of Kento Miyahara vs Omega or Ibushi for the Triple Crown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: 1.) My point was just any company in Japan would likely take them gladly 2.) Stop trying to ruin my dreams of Kento Miyahara vs Omega or Ibushi for the Triple Crown. As long as Kento wins it's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 It's Kento. He'll drop the belt and win it back a few months later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Guys, don't overrate Kento and ruin him for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Are we sure that they are going to have partners in Japan at all? If someone like Kenny isn't wrestling (due to already mentioned reasons) then will anyone in Japan really care? Like what, for example, NOAH would be getting from this deal? And well if Kenny is doing only few shows, but isn't wrestling in G1, does NJPW care? He wasn't around for many shows last year and attendance wasn't hurt by that at all. And if White's push works out in next few months then they might not even need Omega for G1 since I doubt that another Omega/Ibushi G1 match is possible and even if it was it would probably draw less than last year. Double Dome show? We have no idea what Day 2 will be about at all, it might just be super big NYD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 15 hours ago, Web Conn said: Yeah they referenced Adam Cole being killed off in the cold open, I won't say anymore. You'll get it. I didn't know Adam Cole was dead. I've always liked The Bucks, Cody Kenny etc in the ring. I guess I always pegged the BTE stuff as smarky internet worked shoot stuff. I was wrong its not. There are jokes about the form of wrestling and some of the absurd shit we all laugh at. But its not pretentious or at least the episode I watched wasn't. I'm all in pardon the pun, I think this group of guys is gonna be the group of guys to make the go at the McMahon Empire. They aren't gonna dethrone the WWE, They are structured to survive but I do think there is gonna be a fight for the core audience member, the wrestling fan not just they consumer who watches on tv and orders the big 4 PPVs but the fan who watches the show, goes to the events buys the shirt etc All Elite might appeal to them because of the work rate, because of the perceived accessibility. I tink we are in for a fun period in wrestling. I think last best hope is a good way to describe AEW. I can't see any other group having the talent and the ambition to go for it the way Kenny/Cody/Bucks/Page will. They've got a lot of challenges ahead of them, and might have to survive ROH trying to snuff them out (I think ROH and AEW are going to have some really bad blood- and it might spill over into NJPW), but if AEW can fill out its roster with talent they can build up, they can do it. The last part is what I worry about. If AEW fails, I don't see anyone ever trying again. Kenny Omega is the biggest non-WWE star since the demise of WCW, and has some crossover appeal with the geek culture crowd that AEW is going to need to support them in order to survive. The tie-in they have with CEO is going to be very important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Archibald said: Are we sure that they are going to have partners in Japan at all? If someone like Kenny isn't wrestling (due to already mentioned reasons) then will anyone in Japan really care? Like what, for example, NOAH would be getting from this deal? And well if Kenny is doing only few shows, but isn't wrestling in G1, does NJPW care? He wasn't around for many shows last year and attendance wasn't hurt by that at all. And if White's push works out in next few months then they might not even need Omega for G1 since I doubt that another Omega/Ibushi G1 match is possible and even if it was it would probably draw less than last year. Double Dome show? We have no idea what Day 2 will be about at all, it might just be super big NYD. We don't know that they want a partner, but all the reporting--which one may variously believe or not--suggests they do, and they have told us they want a Joshi partner. Plus, I think it's pretty clear why AEW would want the ability to book Japanese stars to draw their core audience, especially with such a small roster right now. NOAH is probably the one company that would stand to gain the least from a partnership, because they don't have anything to sell US customers--everyone else has a streaming service at this point, while they don't. Exposure for some of your talent--maybe on a big cable network--would probably sell subscriptions for everyone else, considering there's a large part of the wrestling world who doesn't even know that All Japan still exists, for example, much less that companies like Wrestle-1 ever have. I think New Japan would be happy to use Kenny more or less in the Jericho role. He could instantly and credibly challenge for anything, or wrestle big singles matches for no real reason. While attendance was and would remain strong without him, they've got more big buildings to fill this year than last, and he could help do that once or twice without holding booking hostage. (He and Ibushi could do the same with the tag belts.) Obviously there are reasons AEW's financial interests might not want Omega to do this, but--and this is a total guess, to be clear--I think it might be the easiest way to get him signed. Kenny doesn't want to do full tours these days, but I'm basically certain he doesn't want to leave Japan behind altogether. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Hypothetical question based on this from the Raw thread: Quote Food for thought: At the time of this post, only two official WWE Youtube videos from last's Raw have more than a million views. One is Braun flipping the limo with 1.9M. And at 1.8M, we have... Seemingly there's an appetite from wrestling fans for a certain kind of content that WWE may not be interested in providing all the time. If AEW were to lean more adult and more mature, what would the reaction be if some of their talent were to partner with producers of tasteful nude photography? I know popular culture is different than it was at the turn of the century. But, as seen above, it isn't so different that such content wouldn't find an audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said: Hypothetical question based on this from the Raw thread: Seemingly there's an appetite from wrestling fans for a certain kind of content that WWE may not be interested in providing all the time. If AEW were to lean more adult and more mature, what would the reaction be if some of their talent were to partner with producers of tasteful nude photography? I know popular culture is different than it was at the turn of the century. But, as seen above, it isn't so different that such content wouldn't find an audience. More evidence to your point: Scarlett’s strip tease with Steiner from last week’s Impact has just under 800K views. Depends where reaction is coming from. Normally I’d say the dirtsheets would slam them but given who’s involved, they’ll let it go most likely. I guess it just depends on whether its on the actual show or not. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 More evidence to your point: Scarlett’s strip tease with Steiner from last week’s Impact has just under 800K views. Depends where reaction is coming from. Normally I’d say the dirtsheets would slam them but given who’s involved, they’ll let it go most likely. I guess it just depends on whether its on the actual show or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I don't imagine for one second Cody, the Bucks or the Khans will be going down that route, regardless of the "popularity" of that stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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