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NXT TAKEOVER: PHOENIX - 1/26/2019


Dolfan in NYC

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The card is pretty fucking awesome. Your post reads like someone saying, "Meh, Ferraris are probably cool, but I think they're played out." Not to mention that quantity of posts =/= level of excitement. SDL is a consistently better show than Raw and it gets less than half the number of responses. 

Sometimes people spend their time talking about other shit on this board when it comes to wrestling and you can typically distill that down to frustration with the product. There's nothing to be frustrated with here. Gargano's character development has been interesting and you begin to wonder if he isn't going to go fully evil on Ricochet. TUE has dominated the tag division, but they haven't faced anyone as formidable as the War Raiders. The EST has basically climbed the ladder since she started in NXT without ever looking down, she finally defeated Cross, and now she has one more step to go, but Shayna is like the Vader of this division. The main event is the culmination of a long storyline with Black being cheated out of his title, being put on the shelf, having to go through Gargano, and now he gets his opportunity to get his title back. At that same time, Ciampa hasn't showed any signs of slowing down so who knows how it will play out. And finally everyone knows Ohno vs Riddle is going to be the shit.

I don't know, everything in NXT is pretty good. There isn't a whole lot to talk about because there isn't much to bitch about and there isn't need to finally say, "man, they finally put on a good show!" 

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3 hours ago, Craig H said:

The card is pretty fucking awesome. Your post reads like someone saying, "Meh, Ferraris are probably cool, but I think they're played out."

There's nothing to be frustrated with here. Gargano's character development has been interesting and you begin to wonder if he isn't going to go fully evil on Ricochet. TUE has dominated the tag division, but they haven't faced anyone as formidable as the War Raiders. The EST has basically climbed the ladder since she started in NXT without ever looking down, she finally defeated Cross, and now she has one more step to go, but Shayna is like the Vader of this division. The main event is the culmination of a long storyline with Black being cheated out of his title, being put on the shelf, having to go through Gargano, and now he gets his opportunity to get his title back. At that same time, Ciampa hasn't showed any signs of slowing down so who knows how it will play out. And finally everyone knows Ohno vs Riddle is going to be the shit.

If everyone drove Ferraris and you'd driven a Ferrari for years and years and saw only Ferraris on the road while driving? They probably wouldn't seem as cool. Comparing the endless Black-Gargano-Ciampa angle to a Ferrari is being very generous anyhow. Most of the posters here that aren't enamored with Gargano seem to take issue with his hammy overacting, which this angle has been loaded with. TUE's dominance of the tag division is the reason it's stale. Bianca's shot had almost no buildup, making it look a lot like she was just thrown in there because Kairi and Io had to miss the bulk of the TV taping. Unless they're planning to pull the trigger on a title change (and it sure doesn't look that way), this seems like a waste of the undefeated streak. And I already said I know Riddle-Ohno will be a good match - it's just that the "Ohno is jealous of the new guys" buildup for it largely took place before the last Takeover and they haven't really done anything interesting with it since. The actual in-ring matches aren't the issue I was addressing. It's the booking around them that feels stagnant.

ETA: Just checked and after Sunday Gargano will have worked 12 Takeovers (the most of any wrestler) and Ciampa will have worked 10 (second-most, tied with Asuka).

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I'll sort of co-sign with MORELOCK. I'll watch the show and it'll be good. But outside of Riddle-Ohno, I'm not feeling much of it. Just something to watch while I'm waiting for the Rumble.

It doesn't help that once you get past the guys who've been around forever, Ricochet is their big act. Great athlete, but I preferred him under a mask and in a zany environment. 

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For me the story going into Black/Ciampa and Ricochet/Gargano are ones that I'm still quite into.  The Gargano/Ciampa story is one of the better ones they've told in quite some time.  While it did have a hiccup last year due to Black's injury it did recover with darkside Johnny trying to come to terms with where's at mentally and emotionally.  I get that he does some hammy overacting but it oddly works in trying to make sense of Ciampa oddly helping him find himself again.   It's only a matter of time before they form a heel DIY and I'm very much enjoying the ride there.

As for the other matches Kairi had her time as champ and challenger and Io just got there so no sense rushing them in as challengers.  Bianca's the best bet to go against Shayna and while I wish there was more interaction between the two it is going to be interesting to see how they approach this.   War Raiders have been feuding with UE but the match should have happened sooner.  And Riddle/Ohno pulling out all the stops with Ohno as the dick heel is going to be a really awesome match.  I might have looked forward to other shows more than this but it's still going to be a pretty darn good one.  And if you feel it's stale then I'm sure they'll have everything lined up for a killer Takeover in April.

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Ohno/Riddle is one of the least interesting matches on the card to me. I haven't really dug Riddle too much just from what I've of him in NXT so far. I do however like the general angle and heel Ohno.

Ricochet/Gargano just about matches up with Ohno/Riddle for my interest. I don't really care much for either guy though I like the angle and the direction of Gargano's character. I do think they have wasted the NA title much of last year with too few feuds. Dream and EC3 both should have been in feuds for the belt last year.

I'm semi-interested in UE vs. War Raiders. UE always puts on good matches, and the War Raiders have been generally solid-good. Still, despite liking the non-Cole parts of UE I'm admittedly tired of them being champs. I want to see more of Oney/Burch, Aichner/Barthel, and Street Profits in the mix. Will say that unless 205Live is getting tag titles and more interesting booking that I don't want UE moving up to the main roster at all.

Shayna/Bianca is interesting to me mostly because of the unknowns both in how well they will match up and who wins. I do wish issues between the two had more build.

I'm looking forward to Ciampa/Black. Ciampa is one of my favorite guys in NXT, and I thought their last match was pretty damn good. I'm just hoping Ciampa retains, and Black is moved up to the main roster afterward. Its not Black's fault he was injured, but this match definitely feels several months late. Feels like Black has been main roster ready for a good six months now, and if they are smart the WM Takeover is Dream taking the belt off of Ciampa.

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

Will say that unless 205Live is getting tag titles and more interesting booking that I don't want UE moving up to the main roster at all.

If they're at all serious about building 205 as a brand, putting UE and Gargano/Ciampa there would be a great start. More than anything else the show needs people who are actually over. And you know none of those guys will be protected on the other brands.

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If you look at the previous two pre-Rumble Takeovers - they were similar to the build for this one in that it seems like they are treated almost like placeholder shows until they get through Mania and all the callups

Like the previous two years the challenger for the NXT title was basically "winner of a 4-way". Heck last year - the late bait and switched Gargano into the main event

One year had "Eh we need Asuka to face someone so here's a 4-way!" or Shayna debuts on TV and two weeks later has a title shot because she is a big meanie.

Etc. Etc.

Most of the matches over these shows have very simplistic reasons for happening. (Another example - AOP gets a title shot because they won the Dusty Rhodes Classic. Sure???? Probably could have announced that before/during the Dusty but okay.)

It doesn't affect the specific match quality but I understand totally what Morelock's point about this year's show is about.

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Unless you know you how the Wrestlemania Takeover is going to be, the top 2 matches to me are hard to predict.    I would think that Ciampa vs Gargano is still the plan for the main event to completely finish the feud since apparently Candice is trying to talk sense into Johnny.   If so then Gargano doesn't need a title and Ciampa kind of does.  Although I have no idea what you do with Black if he loses again except send him to the main roster

Belair has to win the title.  You don't put someone on a 1 or 2 year undefeated streak and then have them lose the first real match.  Even if she is going to the main roster you can give her a title run and then lose it at WM Takeover.  

Riddle & Ohno should just  beat the crap out of each other.  That is really all you need on that.    War Raiders really haven't impressed me enough to put a title on them.  

 

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I personally think it's too early for Belair. She's physically impressive but there's been points where she seems lost in the ring. It's a good point for her first loss and it doesn't even have to be clean, although it should be.

The rest of the card is more interesting than exciting. Gargano/Ricochet has the potential to be very good and very bad at the same time.

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11 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

If they're at all serious about building 205 as a brand, putting UE and Gargano/Ciampa there would be a great start. More than anything else the show needs people who are actually over. And you know none of those guys will be protected on the other brands.

Because Tozawa and Gallagher who were two of the most over talent in 205 the first year were so well protected. I enjoy 205Live in a vacuum, but they have had booking issues for a while that continue on even now. Putting UE, Gargano, & Ciampa there won't change a damn thing. There is nothing to say they would even be over if put there.

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We already know Adam Cole is going to be a mega hit on the main roster. I don't see how sending him to 205 Live would be a good thing. 

At the same time, main roster creative needs to stop with the bullshit that Dave and Bryan talked about this week. They made the joke that the mindset in creative is that it takes 5 years to build up or rebuild NXT talent. That's an exaggeration, but Bryan tweaked it to say, no, it takes 5 minutes to destroy anyone brought up and then it takes years to rebuild them. 

Cole (and his buddies), Ricochet, and probably Riddle are all guaranteed hits on the main roster. They just need to come up like they mean something. There's no need to build up any of those guys and the dudes in TUE around Cole will just feed off of him. Unfortunately, historically this doesn't happen so I guess they're fucked either way. 

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

Because Tozawa and Gallagher who were two of the most over talent in 205 the first year were so well protected. I enjoy 205Live in a vacuum, but they have had booking issues for a while that continue on even now. Putting UE, Gargano, & Ciampa there won't change a damn thing. There is nothing to say they would even be over if put there.

Have you not watched 205 in the last year? I'll grant you that no one was protected when they were stupidly putting the Cruisers on RAW, but that hasn't been an issue for some time now. Also, Tozawa and Gallagher have never been anywhere even remotely close to as over as the NXT guys mentioned. To suggest that a MR crowd would have no idea who these guys are is a little much - most of those crowds may not watch NXT, but the portion of those crowds that do are rabid fans who would clearly react to some of NXT's most over wrestlers. They would certainly be more over than the current crop in 205, who have been put in a terrible position. If you don't think people can be protected on 205, I'm not sure how you explain Buddy Murphy going from "barely-working developmental guy on the verge of release" to "brand's best-ever champion putting on multiple MOTYC candidates."

I'm not sure what alternative you're even suggesting - if they aren't going to invest in 205 as a brand by putting workers that the fans actually care about on the shows, should they just cancel it altogether?

I don't buy that *anyone* in NXT is a guaranteed star on RAW or SDL. There's a logjam at the top of the card and most of these guys are going to be seen as too small to be pushed over that logjam. Putting them on 205 would guarantee that they would be on top of the brand they're on instead of being career midcarders, and it would give 205 the shot in the arm it needs if they're going to treat it as a third brand.

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Ohno/Bro is the match I am looking forward to the least. I hope they shock me but that seems like a match a lot of people are going to like a lot that will probably put me to sleep.

Richichet vs. Johnny is going to rule. I say that as someone who has really mixed thoughts on Johnny,  but he has fun crazy matches. The King makes me wish I was 12-years-old watching him for the first time because he would be my favorite wrestler. Or remember the first time you saw Rey Mysterio? I feel that way every time I watch him.

Shauna/EST is really interesting. When was Shayna in a match against someone without a lot of experience? I love EST and she is going to be amazing but she is still missing just a few things. 

And I see Adam Cole being the hotness on Raw/Smackdown for about a month before he gets stale really quickly and people blame Vince or whatever. I have come around on UE a lot, especially since I saw them live, but not sure I can see Adam Cole in his current package doing much.

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And look at Dream trying to steal a spot and have a match with Cena at WrestleMania. I sorta love that? Also, that match would friggin’ rule. Cena holding down the flow of the match while Dream does all sorts of crazy to steal the show...

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Adam Cole will be a smaller version of Bobby Roode on the main roster. Crowd pops because of a catchphrase, match is usually non-descript, and should probably be put into a tag team.

As for the card, the matches will be good, as always, but the buildup has not engaged me very much. The tag title match buildup got derailed by War Raiders getting hurt after WarGames, the NA title has had very little build, and I don't really think I need to see Ciampa and Black again. Women's title buildup has been good, but it's basically a heel vs heel match, and Bianca is not ready for the title yet. I assume she loses due to some shenanigans, and spends some time getting revenge on Baysler's lackeys.

Riddle vs Ohno should be very good again, but I have never been a big Ohno fan.

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9 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Have you not watched 205 in the last year? I'll grant you that no one was protected when they were stupidly putting the Cruisers on RAW, but that hasn't been an issue for some time now. Also, Tozawa and Gallagher have never been anywhere even remotely close to as over as the NXT guys mentioned. To suggest that a MR crowd would have no idea who these guys are is a little much - most of those crowds may not watch NXT, but the portion of those crowds that do are rabid fans who would clearly react to some of NXT's most over wrestlers. They would certainly be more over than the current crop in 205, who have been put in a terrible position. If you don't think people can be protected on 205, I'm not sure how you explain Buddy Murphy going from "barely-working developmental guy on the verge of release" to "brand's best-ever champion putting on multiple MOTYC candidates."

I'm not sure what alternative you're even suggesting - if they aren't going to invest in 205 as a brand by putting workers that the fans actually care about on the shows, should they just cancel it altogether?

I don't buy that *anyone* in NXT is a guaranteed star on RAW or SDL. There's a logjam at the top of the card and most of these guys are going to be seen as too small to be pushed over that logjam. Putting them on 205 would guarantee that they would be on top of the brand they're on instead of being career midcarders, and it would give 205 the shot in the arm it needs if they're going to treat it as a third brand.

I watch 205Live regularly for the most part. Guys are protected, but almost no one is over in any decent way. Guys like Tozawa & Gallagher were getting good reactions that first year and those died down with weak-shit booking. They have never really recovered and no one else has ever really managed to equal them or do better aside from Aries who ran off after realizing things weren't going to get much better. I never said the audience wouldn't know who the NXT callups were, but they may not get the great reactions you think they will, especially on 205Live.

I never mentioned anything about guys being guaranteed stars on Raw or SDL. I don't think the booking is good enough in either shows case for it to be guaranteed. I agree that 205Live would be the best place for them to become something decent. I just think the foundation still needs improvement for them to not just end up just another guy/s and actually add to/further build the brand.

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Predictions:

Tomasso Ciampa retains the NXT Championship against Aleister Black.

Ricochet remains the NXT North American Champion. Can see this going either way as Johnny Gargano could do with a big win unless Ciampa vs. Gargano main events the WrestleMania Takeover for the NXT Championship. 

Shayna Baszler defends the NXT Women's Championship but I can see Bianca Bel Air taking it. 

Undisputed Era keep the NXT Tag Team Titles vs. War Raiders. 

Matt Riddle beats Kassisus Ohno.

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