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JANUARY 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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15 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

RAW is 3 fucking hours and some of y'all don't believe it's possible to have lengthy tag matches?  They already have lengthy tag matches.  Every week there is a six man or six woman tag that goes at least 12-15 minutes. 

Possible? Of course it is. Likely to actually happen on anything approaching a regular basis?

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1 hour ago, joseph2112 said:

That's the issue though. You can't treat someone like a dork and then give them a few wins or a belt and expect anyone to see them as just a goof who won a few matches. 

But that's pretty much EXACTLY what happened to Becky.  Treated like a dork for months, then suddenly gets a win and an attitude and a belt and boom, one of the hottest acts in the company.

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7 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Possible? Of course it is. Likely to actually happen on anything approaching a regular basis?

True but that goes back to the booking which is all anyone is saying.  The Revival should work.  The fact that they have not is not on them,  it's on a lack of opportunity. 

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Breeze’s ceiling should have been what Dolph Ziggler’s is - a perfectly acceptable midcarder that you can plug into bigger stories every few years. A token run with the belt if he has staying power, as a thank you. But a serious main eventer? No way. His ceiling was always the secondary belts, and maybe a run or two with the main belt(s) via MITB or something, like Ziggler. 

Both of them share a lot of similarities, in my mind. It’s just that this board has an unnatural hate boner for Ziggler, and other guys that are actually pretty good.

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23 minutes ago, Raziel said:

But that's pretty much EXACTLY what happened to Becky.  Treated like a dork for months, then suddenly gets a win and an attitude and a belt and boom, one of the hottest acts in the company.

She's been in or near the title mix pretty much her entire run though, no? 

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I think injuries hurt the Revival more than anything. They came in with a pretty strong push in 2017 beating New Day right away, the Hardys, Gallows & Anderson, etc. Figure they would've been champs if not for bad timing of injuries. They had several 10+ minute tags throughout their time on RAW and I feel like they've gotten a decent amount of promo time, even recently with the Lucha nonsense they'd still be coming to the ring with a mic.

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7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The Beautiful People were better than LayCool.

More people watched LayCool.

7 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

We also need to recognize things such as Anderson having a Hot Asian Wife and now four kids. 

Kayfabe, brother.

 

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In the WON update just post - Akam underwent knee surgery and is out 2 months.

Thats why AOP hasn’t been on TV

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1 hour ago, joseph2112 said:

She's been in or near the title mix pretty much her entire run though, no? 

If by in the mix is being in multi-women #1 contender or title matches so they can get all the girls on the show, yeah.  But from January 2016, she's has 17 matches involving the a title.  22 if you include the #1 contender's matches.  And she didn't sniff a serious program in over a year from June 17 to August 18.  So yeah, she was a dork and Charlotte's backup for a while before breaking out with the heel turn.

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Daniel Bryan is an animal 

Except for the excessive screaming, I need to see this match now 

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14 minutes ago, Raziel said:

If by in the mix is being in multi-women #1 contender or title matches so they can get all the girls on the show, yeah.  But from January 2016, she's has 17 matches involving the a title.  22 if you include the #1 contender's matches.  And she didn't sniff a serious program in over a year from June 17 to August 18.  So yeah, she was a dork and Charlotte's backup for a while before breaking out with the heel turn.

Ahhh, the "DVDVR Burial." Anything less than an undefeated streak followed by a year-long run with the title is just the worst.

You do know that one of those multi-women matches they booked to "get all the girls on the show" was the match that Becky won to become the first SmackDown Women's Champion, right? Or are you just willfully ignoring things that don't fit your narrative? Does being the actual title holder not count as being in the title mix?

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I thought there was a rumor/story Breeze mainly got called up so they’d have a feel good story for Breaking Ground.

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2 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I actually liked a lot of what they did in TNA. 

Some of what the Dudleys did in TNA was good, like the Team Canada feud, and Bully's singles run. But for quite a lot of it, they were just doing a greatest hits tour. And there were things like the MCMGs feud that would have had pretty good matches if the Dudleys could have been arsed to try. But they weren't arsed, so the matches were not good.

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2 hours ago, Edwin said:

Am I the only one who wasn't a fan of the Dudley Boyz outside of ECW?

I mean, the TLC matches were cool and all in WWE, but outside of that there wasn't much I dug of them.

They had a decent face run till about the end of 2000 when it got super stale doing the same thing week in week out. Their heel run before getting lost in the Alliance shuffle wasn't too bad. 

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43 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Ahhh, the "DVDVR Burial." Anything less than an undefeated streak followed by a year-long run with the title is just the worst.

You do know that one of those multi-women matches they booked to "get all the girls on the show" was the match that Becky won to become the first SmackDown Women's Champion, right? Or are you just willfully ignoring things that don't fit your narrative? Does being the actual title holder not count as being in the title mix?

Called up, in the mix.  Won the Inaugural SDL TItle,  lost it days later, didn't sniff the title again outside of the MitB program that shifted her into Elsworth, didn't do pretty much anything until the Summerslam angle.  That's right from Cagematch.  Not calling "buried", but she was pretty much in the "not in the mix" territory that her buddies on RAW bitch about being in on Twitter for over a year before she blew up recently. 

 

No, she wasn't as much of an afterthought as JBL and Jinder were before their mega-pushes, but Becky's role was doing Tweet videos of eating qinuoa and being on the roster until August, when she's suddenly in the Main Event, so that was more to prove that it *is* possible to go from "who cares" to top player after being treated as barely there for a period of time.  

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I watched 3 Different Rey vs Almas matches on YouTube, they got Chemistry, I'm glad Almas doesnt have to over Americanize his style like Del Rio did, Guys were expected to work a WWE.style upto maybe 3 years ago. Almas has been allowed to work his Lucha style and it's why he has been impressive on top of the fact that Rey wants to get people over, Rey has been really good, I havent seen much of him since coming back but he looks like he is in amazing condition and he works way better than you would expect. Rey is a Sentimental favorite of  mine so just that fact that he can go so well now a days is Great.

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Becky's first run as SDL women's champ was hampered by her getting sick for a few weeks and missing time, Alexa Bliss taking off with good promo work, and Naomi working the heck out of her still new Feel the Glow persona. Then we got a quick Charlotte reign with her dropping it to MITB holder Carmella, who was clearly going to win as she was the first-ever woman to hold the briefcase.

The only time Becky could have been worked into the championship picture before SummerSlam 2018 is when a heel Natalya had the belt and was doing nothing with it.

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2 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

More people watched LayCool.

 

 

More people listen to Justin Bieber than Mastodon. Does that mean Bieber is better? Hell fucking no.

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As someone who doesn't watch NXT... Breeze did not make a really good impression on the main roster at all.  He had a bit of an initial push with Dolph but he really didn't seem to be either particularly strong in the ring despite being given showcase matches, and his character bits and talking weren't really there beyond the entrance.  Vince probably pulled the plug on his push too quickly, but he hadn't really been showing himself to be much more than a mid to low carder at that point.  He's much better as a comedy guy and should probably stay there.

 

Revival had some dreadful injury timing, but aside from a few highlights haven't shown themselves to be more than some solid hands.  I would shift them over towards the SD side to give fresh match-ups to the teams over there, and perhaps with that focus can show themselves to be legit attractions, but they aren't really built to be the focus of a division and that is what Raw would require of them.  Their ceiling seems to be the opponents to a top face team the crowd loves... so yeah let them work with New Day.  The whole Raw tag division has been a disaster for the better part of a year now, but it's not like the Revival has been putting out great work during this time.

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Hollllllyyyy shit! The Destiny Wrestling event tonight was fucking amazing. ACH, Shane Strickland, Michael Elgin, and maaafuggin Tyler Bate and Pete Dunne! So freaking cool getting to see so much world class talent (and great locals too) in such an intimate environment. Will post more thoughts in the indie thread and links to my insta for vids.

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52 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Called up, in the mix.  Won the Inaugural SDL TItle,  lost it days later, didn't sniff the title again outside of the MitB program that shifted her into Elsworth, didn't do pretty much anything until the Summerslam angle.  That's right from Cagematch.  Not calling "buried", but she was pretty much in the "not in the mix" territory that her buddies on RAW bitch about being in on Twitter for over a year before she blew up recently. 

No, she wasn't as much of an afterthought as JBL and Jinder were before their mega-pushes, but Becky's role was doing Tweet videos of eating qinuoa and being on the roster until August, when she's suddenly in the Main Event, so that was more to prove that it *is* possible to go from "who cares" to top player after being treated as barely there for a period of time.  

Sasha can bitch on Twitter all she likes - she's never been on "who cares" level and neither has Becky. She's been over and booked as a threat the entire time, and you said she wasn't in the title mix during the time period that she literally held the title. You act like she was a Mahal-level jobber and that's ridiculous. 

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Becky Lynch won the SmackDown Women's Title in September, and lost it in December. How the fuck is that days later? Do you even know how to use Cagematch? Jesus christ. On that same page, where she lost the title to Alexa Bliss, she had two rematches, and another match for the vacant title in 2017 against Bliss (can't remember why it was vacant, though). There's way more than that if you count the house shows, too. Then she was constantly working matches, be it singles, tags or multi-women tags, where the champion was involved. Then Naomi got the belt, Becky moved on to other things, and the Ellsworth stuff happened like you said.

It seems like you want to forget all of that up until the point where she isn't involved in the title scene. On a 2 hour show, in a division unto itself, she was the other woman that had a program besides the champion (or maybe Charlotte). She's never been "nobody" on the main roster. Well, MAYBE I'll grant you her time on RAW after she debuted, since the focus seemed to always be on Sasha or Charlotte. But, yeah.

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If anything, Becky Lynch "not being in the title picture" or being a star is more representative of how face-heavy the Smackdown women were.

At that time, any problem boiled down to:

Becky Lynch is a very good wrestler, very popular with the fans, and absolutely deserves to be the champion.

Naomi is also a very good wrestler, very popular with fans, and absolutely deserves to be the champion.

Charlotte Flair is also a very good wrestler, very popular with fans, and absolutely deserves to be the champion.

BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE TITLE, AND THEY CAN'T SHARE IT!!!!!!!!!

That's been the whole problem with the Smackdown women for the whole time: The face/heel dynamic is so utterly broken that it becomes impossible to make good storylines. The top five women on Smackdown are faces, and all five are at the point the fans won't LET WWE turn any of them heel. 

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4 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

I thought there was a rumor/story Breeze mainly got called up so they’d have a feel good story for Breaking Ground.

If I remember correctly, he was on there because he was going to be let go, but then the Tyler Breeze gimmick caught on.

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