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JANUARY 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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2 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

1.) Do you understand what traditionalist means in this context? I'm not even trying to snarky, you basically just said traditionalists should be okay with this thing that is the exact opposite of their position.

I understand what self-described "traditionalists" mean when they say things like that. But the entire notion is nonsense. 

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2.) Charlotte vs Ronda can be paid off at Fast Lane or whatever. Charlotte is really good, but it's absolutely undeniable that Becky is way the fuck more over than Charlotte.

Beckbeards pitching a fit is why she has a place at Mania. But Charlotte makes the match better than it would be as a singles and makes it a hotter angle.

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3.) I liked Charlotte/Ronda a lot, but MOTY? Fuck, Charlotte had two better matches in 2018, and I don't have either of them as the main roster MOTY either.

Well we can't all be as right as me. ;)

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4.) There have been a ton of really good triple threats. There has never been one that would make my top 100 matches of all-time, and I don't think there's ever been one that would make my top five for the year it happened.

I've never sat down and plotted out a top 100 of all time. No comment. 

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That's what we're doing now? Pretending Becky Lynch isn't that good a worker? Fucking dumb. Some of y'all will defend Seth "boiled chicken" Rollins to the death and then say with a straight face that Becky isn't just as good as Charlotte? Smh. Every once in a while a really bad take will catch fire around here and it baffles me (Dolph Ziggler isn't a good worker, the New Age Outlaws were never any good, et. al.). Becky connects with the audience in a way no one else does and that matters WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more than "movez." And she's really quite good in-ring, too. 

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I don't buy for one second that it would be as good. Triple threats are never as good as singles matches unless they are used to hide someone. None of them need hidden. Nobody has ever been made by winning a triple threat. 

The notion Becky is only over because of Charlotte is absurd. If it has petered our quickly, or if a real backlash against Charlotte had emerged, that argument would hold weight. Neither happened. Becky is the most over act in the company, and her beating Ronda one on one at the biggest show of the year is, by far, their best chance of breaking her out into the mainstream. Adding anyone else in there just muddies things up.

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5 minutes ago, just drew said:

That's what we're doing now? Pretending Becky Lynch isn't that good a worker? Fucking dumb. Some of y'all will defend Seth "boiled chicken" Rollins to the death and then say with a straight face that Becky isn't just as good as Charlotte? Smh. Every once in a while a really bad take will catch fire around here and it baffles me (Dolph Ziggler isn't a good worker, the New Age Outlaws were never any good, et. al.). Becky connects with the audience in a way no one else does and that matters WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more than "movez." And she's really quite good in-ring, too. 

I find both Seth and Becky to be wildly overrated. 

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6 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

I don't buy for one second that it would be as good. Triple threats are never as good as singles matches unless they are used to hide someone. None of them need hidden. Nobody has ever been made by winning a triple threat. 

The notion Becky is only over because of Charlotte is absurd. If it has petered our quickly, or if a real backlash against Charlotte had emerged, that argument would hold weight. Neither happened. Becky is the most over act in the company, and her beating Ronda one on one at the biggest show of the year is, by far, their best chance of breaking her out into the mainstream. Adding anyone else in there just muddies things up.

I didn't say Becky was only over because of Charlotte. Becky is only over because her fans feel she's held down. Charlotte helps with that.

If you'd like to pretend a backlash against Charlotte (or hot blondes in general) isn't a thing, we're not going to meet in the middle there.

Becky isn't the most over act in the company. Her fan reactions have cooled a lot since the summer. In the wrestling bubble she's hot. She should probably main event Mania. But her momentum has slowed a lot.

Triple threats are awesome. I love a broader cast of characters. And anybody can be made by any match if the booking commits to them. 

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Charlotte's not being booed and hated. A few message board posts is not a fan backlash.

Replace Charlotte with almost anyone else at SummerSlam, and Becky gets the same basic response for beating the hell out of her. But Charlotte barely got booed against Becky, and not all away from her. The crowd went nuts when she took Ronda apart. 

Becky may have cooled a little, but she's still getting the best reactions on the show nearly every night. 

I completely agree her popularity is in the wrestling bubble. Which is why giving her the one on one win over their biggest mainstream star on the biggest show of the year is the right move, to try and get her over with those people as well. The way Cyndi Lauper and Mr T exposed Hogan to a broader audience, or Tyson did Austin. Adding another person just makes it less clear that this person right here is THE MAN (pun intended)

If Ronda really is only doing this one year, then the goal has to be to make a star. And the way to do it is one on one, in the middle of the ring. You can say a triple threat can make someone, but it's never happened yet. Why take that chance, especially with how shaky WWE creative is?

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I'm kind of torn on WM. I think Becky/Rousey is the more sensible route, but I do think Charlotte earned her right into a WM main event after the work she did last year. As a match, I think both would be good regardless. I do however think Charlotte right now is better than Becky ring wise, and I'm not sure Becky would really know how to work with Ronda in their first ever match. Finish wise until the news of Rousey leaving came out I honestly think this should have been Rousey's victory. They should have done some form of the Bret/Austin WM 13 finish with a rematch and Becky's victory set up as a selling point for the next all women's ppv. If Rousey is actually leaving then it might be best that they should just go the singles route and give Becky the win. A singles victory would mean a lot more than a triple threat.

2 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Replace Charlotte with almost anyone else at SummerSlam, and Becky gets the same basic response for beating the hell out of her. But Charlotte barely got booed against Becky, and not all away from her. The crowd went nuts when she took Ronda apart. 

Charlotte's position at the top and the much maligned idea of Becky turning heel was why Becky got that reaction. This isn't remotely arguable. No one else would have been remotely thought of being able to steal Becky's thunder but Charlotte. Becky however did keep those reactions because of her general character and attitude change, and she really hasn't lost much steam away from Charlotte. 

Charlotte got plenty of boos whenever she fought back against Becky. In a weird way they probably almost regret the attack on Ronda since it likely got the opposite reaction of what they were hoping for.

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To go back to matches that never happened, Austin vs Hogan and Austin vs Goldberg are probably the two biggest money ones.

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20 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Good calls those. 

Did Bret Hart vs. Eddie Guerrero ever happen?

I don't think so.

A match that should've happened and would've had a very entertaining build is Shawn Michaels vs The Rock. The verbal harassment between the two would've been highly amusing.

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Since Triple H has been cleared for Mania, and he's supposedly the one pushing for Charlotte to be in the match, why not just do Triple H Vs Charlotte? Hunter can cut promos about how he had to take her old man out back and shoot him, and now he'll do the same to her. Charlotte can say he's jealous because he's just a Flair knock-off, while she's the real deal. Boom, there's your piss break.

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Putting aside the argument of whether a triple-threat match can ever be as good as a one-on-one match (because there isn't an argument), I don't think it's arguable that if you're trying to elevate someone, a one-on-one match is the vastly better way to do it. Even if Becky makes Ronda tap at WrestleMania, there's still the unresolved "but she didn't beat Charlotte!!!" bullshit in the way of the elevation. Or vice-versa. It's just not as definitive and never will be.

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1 hour ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

Since Triple H has been cleared for Mania, and he's supposedly the one pushing for Charlotte to be in the match, why not just do Triple H Vs Charlotte? Hunter can cut promos about how he had to take her old man out back and shoot him, and now he'll do the same to her. Charlotte can say he's jealous because he's just a Flair knock-off, while she's the real deal. Boom, there's your piss break.

"Charlotte, you can forget about all your daddy issues, because come WrestleMania, I'm going to be your daddy".

"Uncle Paul, there has been a long line of men over the years who have tried to wrestle their way from out of my dad's shadow, of you which you are just one. But it took a woman to actually get the job done".

Ric Flair's music hits and he shuffles out. Prime WWE drama as Triple H and Charlotte fight for his affection.

"Dad, I'm everything you wanted me to be. I'm everything you were, and more. I'm the face of the Women's Evolution".

"Funny you should use that word, Evolution. Because everyone knows there's only one Evolution that means anything in this business".

They finally decide that Hunter will stand on one side of the ring, and Charlotte on the other side, each one holding a dog treat. Ric will stand in the middle and they'll both call him, and see who he goes to. Flair gets confused and starts elbowdropping his jacket, which leads to him getting made the special guest referee.

I mean, this stuff writes itself really.

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43 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

"Charlotte, you can forget about all your daddy issues, because come WrestleMania, I'm going to be your daddy".

"Uncle Paul, there has been a long line of men over the years who have tried to wrestle their way from out of my dad's shadow, of you which you are just one. But it took a woman to actually get the job done".

Ric Flair's music hits and he shuffles out. Prime WWE drama as Triple H and Charlotte fight for his affection.

"Dad, I'm everything you wanted me to be. I'm everything you were, and more. I'm the face of the Women's Evolution".

"Funny you should use that word, Evolution. Because everyone knows there's only one Evolution that means anything in this business".

They finally decide that Hunter will stand on one side of the ring, and Charlotte on the other side, each one holding a dog treat. Ric will stand in the middle and they'll both call him, and see who he goes to. Flair gets confused and starts elbowdropping his jacket, which leads to him getting made the special guest referee.

I mean, this stuff writes itself really.

Then the finish of the match itself is HHH winning after Hogan inexplicably comes out and pins Ric, just for ol' times sake

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1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:

Putting aside the argument of whether a triple-threat match can ever be as good as a one-on-one match (because there isn't an argument), I don't think it's arguable that if you're trying to elevate someone, a one-on-one match is the vastly better way to do it. Even if Becky makes Ronda tap at WrestleMania, there's still the unresolved "but she didn't beat Charlotte!!!" bullshit in the way of the elevation. Or vice-versa. It's just not as definitive and never will be.

But Becky has beaten Charlotte. Multiple times.

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They just need to redo Wrestlemania X. Coin flip. Becky Loses, has to face Nia in the first match of the card and then the winner of Charlotte vs Ronda. Then Charlotte gets screwed by Trish as special ref. 

Wait, does Becky have a little sister who can kick her leg out of her leg?

Finn's kind of like a snot-nosed younger sibling.

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Right. In this case, Becky has checked off all the boxes except for beating Ronda. Even if she doesn't face off against Nia Jax, she punked her out backstage and that was that.

I'm not someone who thinks triple threats can't be as good as one on one matches as there are plenty that I like a ton, but the only way a triple threat makes perfect sense in elevating someone in this case is if each woman has defeated the other and a triple threat puts the winner over each. In this case, if you're trying to further elevate Becky Lynch and gain mass media appeal then her winning in a triple threat isn't as good as Becky beating Ronda one on one. That would be a story on SportsCenter.

Put another way, and sorry for the inadvertent Becky=Austin stuff, but imagine Tyson actually becomes a WWE wrestler. Austin beating HBK like he did or beating Tyson one on one would mean a whole hell of a lot more than Austin winning a triple threat.

Although other times I don't think it mattered that much that someone went over in a triple threat, like Benoit at WM20. I know there's other examples, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Rey vs Angle vs Orton? Anyway, in each of those cases, no one had the potential to be a megastar like Becky.

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5 minutes ago, Matt D said:

They just need to redo Wrestlemania X. Coin flip. Becky Loses, has to face Nia in the first match of the card and then the winner of Charlotte vs Ronda. Then Charlotte gets screwed by Trish as special ref. 

Wait, does Becky have a little sister who can kick her leg out of her leg?

Finn's kind of like a snot-nosed younger sibling.

I mean, ideally, this is the next best thing, but maybe with more clean finishes. 

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