Kang Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 He needs a catchphrase and some logos and a fancy entrance like Triple H. Give him some moments, like running over Balor with a car. I don't think Vince wants anyone on Raw as the guy however, getting pinned by Dolph is weird when they was protecting Drew for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, D.Z said: Give him some moments, like running over Balor with a car. I don't think that'll be much of a moment. Things like that are why windshield wipers were invented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, D.Z said: He needs a catchphrase and some logos and a fancy entrance like Triple H. Give him some moments, like running over Balor with a car. I don't think Vince wants anyone on Raw as the guy however, getting pinned by Dolph is weird when they was protecting Drew for weeks. Vince is a very weird person when it comes to pulling the trigger on people. I mean even with Roman being "the guy", it still took Vince what like three years of back and forth stuff before he even got to that point. Braun should have won the Universal Championship twice by now. I'm all for Drew winning the title, but yeah it's on Brock so I guess Drew can count on an Intercontinental title run. The next few months might just be some of the worst time to watch WWE (well, just RAW) since like the mid 90's and that's saying a lot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Smackdown is still decent and even when it's bad, it's not as bad as Raw. I wouldn't give up on WWE as a whole, but man Raw is maybe the worst wrestling product on TV at the moment. Stick with the Blue Brand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Craig H said: Smackdown is still decent and even when it's bad, it's not as bad as Raw. I wouldn't give up on WWE as a whole, but man Raw is maybe the worst wrestling product on TV at the moment. Stick with the Blue Brand. Last night was the lowest rated RAW of all time. They've broken that "record" a couple times over the past year but last night was the lowest ever. Not surprised after such a disaster of a show the week prior. I realize WWE is still doing fine financially but with such low attendance and also low ratings how far can this go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I don't think I've personally hated this show this badly since 99. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 When was the era where Vince, Dunn, and Johnny Ace became obsessed with wrestlers looking like models and having zero in ring talent? 2003? 2004? Had to be somewhere around there. That was what got me out of WWE until CM Punk became a focal point in the upper midcard. Anyway, this is worse than that period, but the in ring talent is exponentially better. It doesn't make sense. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Craig H said: When was the era where Vince, Dunn, and Johnny Ace became obsessed with wrestlers looking like models and having zero in ring talent? 2003? 2004? Had to be somewhere around there. That was what got me out of WWE until CM Punk became a focal point in the upper midcard. Anyway, this is worse than that period, but the in ring talent is exponentially better. It doesn't make sense. That was around 2004. You also had the "Diva Search" during that time frame. However, I believe the RAW GM/Guest Host/"ALL ABOUT THE MONEY" era of desperation ranks right up there with the worst of the worst. It was also Post-Eddie, Post-double murder. At least in '04 guys like Rey and Eddie were still holding it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 They need to shake things up and call in some heavy hitters. Corbin just isn’t getting it done. Time for the return of Mr McMahon! 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I dreamt I was watching Raw with Vince and they had to call a Jericho-Angle match off after the latter got hit by lightning. Vince was irate and I said “This is what happens when you rely on these old guys” (As if Angle being younger would prevent him from getting hit by lightning). He told me he was going to give Lars Sullivan an unbeaten streak. I suggested Kyle O’Reilly instead (Which is also weird as I’m not some huge fan of his or anything). After watching the last hour of Raw, I would trade all of it for one Jericho-Angle match where the loser gets hit by lightning! 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Granted I watched next to zero WWE between 2004 and 2010 so I may not have the biggest frame of reference, but I wouldn't call this ear of Raw the worst. There's a decent amount of actual wrestling as opposed to the Attitude Era where we got a bunch of embarrassing DX segments and then a few 3 minute matches. It isn't so much actively bad as it is completely uninteresting. Considering the talent of the roster and how milquetoast the overall product is, I guess you could say it's bad due to them doing nothing with the tools they have? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said: Granted I watched next to zero WWE between 2004 and 2010 so I may not have the biggest frame of reference, but I wouldn't call this ear of Raw the worst. There's a decent amount of actual wrestling as opposed to the Attitude Era where we got a bunch of embarrassing DX segments and then a few 3 minute matches. It isn't so much actively bad as it is completely uninteresting. Considering the talent of the roster and how milquetoast the overall product is, I guess you could say it's bad due to them doing nothing with the tools they have? 1999 is almost untouchable in it's level of terribleness. Bad wrestling, bad stories, Russo fully unleashed. Austin broken down. Plus WCW was also terrible, then added Russo!!! ECW was booked better, but so much of the talent had been lifted out by actual paychecks. WWF 2000 was a huge bounce back, with no Russo, the stories slowing down, longer matches and the Radicalz coming in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I’m rewatching a lot of 1998 right now. It’s much better than today. At least everything feels hot. Not rushing into 1999... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said: They need to shake things up and call in some heavy hitters. Corbin just isn’t getting it done. Time for the return of Mr McMahon! Don't even joke about that. You know it's being considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said: Sometimes this feels like an odd support group for those that gave up on the show. I might as well have said last week "Hi, my name is NikoBaltimore and I used to watch Raw" To which others would half-heartedly go "Hi, NikoBaltimore" On second thought it's best that didn't happen. Can we say "Hi, Dr. Nick" for old times' sake? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 The general consensus here (feel free to speak up if I'm wrong) seems to be that the in-ring product is great and it's the creative/presentation that sucks, right? Am I the only one that thinks every single match is laid out in exactly the same way, no matter who's in it? That more than anything else is what's burned me out on WWE over the past few years, and SmackDown isn't any better than RAW in that regard. Dynamic, interesting matches can do a lot to make up for terrible creative, and it seems like on the main roster they are few and far between. I don't care how well a wrestler can execute a move or tell a story if it's the same damn moves and stories all the time. I don't want to see any more dives. I don't want to see a schoolboy rollup distraction finish. I don't want an "epic" match where someone gets speared through the breakway guardrail thing. I don't want to see everyone hit their finisher and make the stupid "TWO COUNT?!?!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO" face before the match is over. The formula is so, so tiresome. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, MORELOCK said: The general consensus here (feel free to speak up if I'm wrong) seems to be that the in-ring product is great and it's the creative/presentation that sucks, right? Am I the only one that thinks every single match is laid out in exactly the same way, no matter who's in it? That more than anything else is what's burned me out on WWE over the past few years, and SmackDown isn't any better than RAW in that regard. Dynamic, interesting matches can do a lot to make up for terrible creative, and it seems like on the main roster they are few and far between. I don't care how well a wrestler can execute a move or tell a story if it's the same damn moves and stories all the time. I don't want to see any more dives. I don't want to see a schoolboy rollup distraction finish. I don't want an "epic" match where someone gets speared through the breakway guardrail thing. I don't want to see everyone hit their finisher and make the stupid "TWO COUNT?!?!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO" face before the match is over. The formula is so, so tiresome. You’re 100% correct. As to where the blame should lay, I’m sure people will have strong opinions that have little to do with the talent... I’m at the point where unless you’re Daniel Bryan, Mustafa Ali, or Drew McIntyre, I’m not going out of my way to watch. And even with them, I can see your arguments applying to some of their work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I think the consensus is that they have the greatest roster ever assembled in terms of talent, not that the wrestling is consistently solid. If anything, the matches are consistently disappointing. Shit is just constantly laid out wrong. Look at that first match between Joe and AJ. After everything Joe did, AJ should have been seeing red and it should have been a hate filled brawl. Instead it was a pedestrian match that was better than others because of the two guys in it. The other criticisms are valid. Too many matches are laid out in the exact same way. I thought Rollins finishing Dolph with the superplex falcon arrow was one of the most refreshing things I've seen because so many matches have shit like that where it goes nowhere. Otherwise, we keep seeing the same matches and the agents putting them together don't do anything different from match to match. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just go back to 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ray Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Are the Revival the only heels not smart enough to go to Baron Corbin and get booked in match with Lucha House Party where it's 4 on 3 in their favor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Craig H said: I thought Rollins finishing Dolph with the superplex falcon arrow was one of the most refreshing things I've seen because so many matches have shit like that where it goes nowhere. Otherwise, we keep seeing the same matches and the agents putting them together don't do anything different from match to match. Edge always used to change his finisher (he'd usually change it back to the spear pretty quickly), but he'd always keep his old finishers in his moveset for near falls. Whereas Seth has changed his finisher like three times in the last few years (Kerb stomp, Pedigree, Kerb stomp again, Ripcord High Knee) and he just stopped using the old ones altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I could happily go the rest of my wrestling-viewing life without seeing someone charging shoulder-first into the ring post. I think Rollins can get a bit of a pass for outright eliminating his old finishers. He stopped using the curb stomp because he couldn't use the move at all; there's no way using the pedigree as a near-fall would go over well; he does attempt the ripcord knee now, from time to time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Dean's a copycat: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/4/2018 at 9:32 AM, NikoBaltimore said: Sometimes this feels like an odd support group for those that gave up on the show. I might as well have said last week "Hi, my name is NikoBaltimore and I used to watch Raw" To which others would half-heartedly go "Hi, NikoBaltimore" On second thought it's best that didn't happen. I'm cherry-picking my way through the replay and holy shit is the crowd empty. I feel quite okay about that. But whoever filmed the "fans" asking questions for Bayley/Sasha needs to be fired as he got a shitton of empty seats in those shots. And are The Revival supposed to be faces? If not then why in the fuck are they faced with 3-on-2 and 3-on1 matches? Whoever they get to even the odds will end up being the de facto face in my book. Hi I'm OSJ and I'm grateful that you guys watch this shitshow and then discuss it, so I don't have to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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