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DECEMBER 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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I kind of want to refer to Bryan as Captain Planet now.

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2 minutes ago, Eivion said:

I kind of want to refer to Bryan as Captain Planet now.

Likewise. 

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Tree Hugger Luchi and a returning CJ Parker should be sidekicks for the The New Daniel Bryan.

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1 hour ago, The Natural said:

 

Y'all realize Vince thinks all environmentalists act like Bryan's heel character, right?

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Do we know Vince's stance on the environment? It's not something they really have used a lot for material over the years. I assume he wants to burn it all down based on recent theme songs. Captain Planet Daniel Bryan is an amazing gimmick.

Something like this would seem to be the finality of it. He'd avoid the blue paint as that shit's toxic. Ask anyone who's worn it.

 

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I'll go ahead and cop to my brain rejecting a lot of traumatic memories of WCW 2000, but I can't really think of any examples of Nash refusing to job his titles? Just seems like a weird smark opinion osmosis thing where because Shawn was unprofessional in that way, all of his friends must have been too. There was the WWF tag run with Shawn where they vacated but 1. I don't think it's ever being said by anyone that the titles were stripped because of a refusal to job, and 2. If that was the reason they were stripped, is it really likely that Nash was the one throwing a hissy fit over Shawn?

There was the whole late-97 WCW partner switch where Hall and Syxx lost the Outsiders' titles to the Steiners, but I don't think it was ever said to be Nash refusing the job - they had lost the titles to the Steiners earlier that year at Souled Out.

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Nash called in sick to get out of wrestling The Giant on a WCW PPV, I think that was to be for a title. He said he'd had a heart attack but it was just a tummy bug. But legend has it Show was planning on using a Moonsault as his finish, in that match.

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When I think of Sid, I think of late 80s/early 90s WCW. It’s a time when top stars are winning matches with leg drops and shoulder blocks. Out of nowhere you have this guy who looks like he was created in a lab  dropping people on their heads with these dangerous looking powerbombs. 

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6 hours ago, Eivion said:

I kind of want to refer to Bryan as Captain Planet now.

He'll never be referred as such on TV. No way Vince puts over a Turner show on his shows.

 

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5 hours ago, Player One said:

Y'all realize Vince thinks all environmentalists act like Bryan's heel character, right?

Well yeah, that's a given. 

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6 hours ago, Eivion said:

I kind of want to refer to Bryan as Captain Planet now.

New entrance theme:

 

Fuck, I'm old.

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5 hours ago, Player One said:

Y'all realize Vince thinks all environmentalists act like Bryan's heel character, right?

Just as much as if you also realize Daniel Bryan is not just "an environmentalist" , but he's supposed to be one of the environmentalists where EVEN IF YOU'RE an environmentalist too, he'll ALWAYS have some piece to prove he's better. You drive a car, he'll say "use public transportation." You use public transportation, he'll say "You're still using gas, ride a bicycle." You' ride a bicycle, he'd say "the metals being harvested hurt the earth. Walk everywhere." If you walk everywhere, he'd say "you're wearing down your sneakers- those could be given to a child in a Third World country, but apparently you just need to walk..." . Just saying "well, it's for the environment" hides the whole "No matter what you do, I am better than you, and even if you do exactly what I do to the letter, I still know arguments that will make it so I'm still somehow good and you're still somehow evil for doing exactly what I do."

Being an environmentalist can be a face gimmick, but for wrestling, it almost has to  be in the "yeah, I'm going outside and spraying hairspray out to destroy the ozone layer JUST TO SPITE YOU."

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17 minutes ago, The Natural said:

New entrance theme:

 

Fuck, I'm old.

I remember it as well...waiting for WCW Main Event. Sunday evening @ 6:05.

Looking back now, I'm surprised we never got someone portraying Captain Planet in WCW. Another Wrestlecrap-worthy Kevin Nash gimmick perhaps?

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6 hours ago, Player One said:

Y'all realize Vince thinks all environmentalists act like Bryan's heel character, right?

Vince: WHAT KIND OF PUSSY DOESN'T EAT MEAT? GOD DAMN PAL! IT'S THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS! 

Stephanie: Of course dad, now take your pills. 

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6 hours ago, Player One said:

Y'all realize Vince thinks all environmentalists act like Bryan's heel character, right?

If this XFL thing doesn’t work out, maybe he tries a stake in Postmedia next.

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2 hours ago, AxB said:

Nash called in sick to get out of wrestling The Giant on a WCW PPV, I think that was to be for a title. He said he'd had a heart attack but it was just a tummy bug. But legend has it Show was planning on using a Moonsault as his finish, in that match.

That was Starrcade '97, and not for title  so far as I remember.  That was the "Battle of the Giants".  The Outsiders "broke" the Giant's hand, so he supposedly couldn't use the chokeslam.  Of course, that got blown off when Show did an interview and told fans he'd be bringing the chokeslam to Starrcade, so....

Anyway, the rumor was that Nash got chest pains from some wacky meal and claimed it was a heart attack to get out of the match.  Eric Bischoff has said that the real story is that Nash got chest pains, went to the hospital, and underwent tests that showed he had suffered a heart attack.  Supposedly, the tests recorded a false positive due to a combination of indigestion and "Nash's leg day".  Eric, you had me up until you said leg day skewed the ECG.  

Bisch also claimed Nash notified them beforehand that he couldn't make the event due to the medical test findings.  I'm fairly certain Meltzer said something different at the time, but I'm not digging to verify that.  Bischoff is both a noted liar, so Dave's probably at least somewhat more reliable.

I vaguely recall Nash claiming heart problems to get out of a PPV match in TNA, but I don't remember the specifics, so I may be wrong about that.

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9 minutes ago, Player One said:

I vaguely recall Nash claiming heart problems to get out of a PPV match in TNA, but I don't remember the specifics, so I may be wrong about that.

Bound for Glory 2005 was the show he missed as the night before the show he got checked into the hospital. The claim was he had a minor heart attack. He was supposed to face Jeff Jarrett for the title (with Tito Ortiz as special ref)

The WON's for that time period aren't online but Alvarez's Figure 4s are and at the time it was treated as legit. Not sure what has come out since then.

 

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Okay since I was there already - here is what Meltzer wrote at the time about Nash and Starrcade 97 (spoiler tags due to size)

Spoiler

And that was hardly the only question. Probably the most important question of all regarded Kevin Nash, scheduled to wrestle The Giant for the second straight PPV show. The day before the show, WCW received word that Nash had suffered a mild heart attack at his home in Phoenix. Nash, who is 39, has a family history of heart problems including his father dying of a heart attack before the age of 40. Nobody was exactly clear as to the actual story, as there were also reports it was thought to be a heart attack but actually a bad case of indigestion (which medically that mistake is not unusual to be made) causing massive chest pains, or massive chest pains from an anxiety attack suffered due to stress because his father-in-law has a serious health problem, which coincidentally enough is the exact same problem Undertaker had a few weeks ago which caused his blood pressure and heartbeat to go through the roof and caused him to miss a house show, and the health problem is said to be the same life-threatening health problem that Undertaker's father is undergoing. The only thing anyone seemed to know for sure is that Nash was undergoing tests to see what kind of a problem it actually was.

A man who legitimately has a bad heart is one hell of a risk, even with the style he works, in the ring, yet there didn't seem to be nearly the concern one would expect from a lot of parties close to the situation if a superstar in the business was suffering a serious health problem that could keep him out of action for a long time. The reports were that Nash's father-in-law was in bad health with a life threatening bowel problem, the same condition as Undertaker's father. Others were openly questioning it believing that Nash had somehow found out the finish (and he was supposed to do the job) and everything else was a cover reason. Others speculated that even though there was probably some truth to some of the stories it was a combination of both the former and the latter. It's really become a screwed up business when someone may have suffered a legitimate major health scare and his friend at the same time may have suffered a legitimate dislocated knee (Hunter Hearst Helmsley), but since they were friends and their group is building up a tremendous track record of excuses to avoid doing jobs (Helmsley was scheduled to drop the European title to Owen Hart at the Nassau Coliseum on 12/29 but showed up injured from the show the previous day in Hamilton, ONT; although at the same time Scott Hall has actually done a lot more jobs than he's given credit for) so many within the industry don't believe a thing anymore. It's a problem that ultimately was industry created. When promoters create an environment where the wrestlers themselves feel they are being manipulated and worked and doing angles specifically to fool the boys breeds that problem even worse, it is only natural for the wrestlers themselves once they get in a position of power to try and play the game back. In an industry that needs some level of trust for a cohesive product, but never really has true trust because the business is built on a house of lies, even though the health of the industry is near peak levels, the foundation of the industry has never been so completely screwed up. Nash had managed to postpone his first PPV match with The Giant, originally scheduled for World War III, claiming his knee hadn't recovered from arthroscopic surgery a few months back and his entire ring time over the past several months consisted of the cameo at the end of the Battle Royal. He got out of numerous other booked house show matches with Giant (he did a few just before his injury) due to the knee surgery. But he had also told people that he wasn't going to work a program with The Giant and in recent weeks before any of these problems surfaced had told people he wasn't doing the match at Starrcade for a variety of reasons, among them because he didn't think it had been promoted correctly and because he didn't want to do the program to begin with.

 

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Raven should have gotten his moment that night. They had a Gauntlet for the Gold match that night where the winner face Jarrett for the title right after. Rhyno won it. Raven who had last the strap to Jarrett at a Border City show the month before was escorted out of the building during the pre show. Raven should have came thru the crowd Even Flowed Rhyno 1-2-3. Raven vs Jarrett, Raven goes over. Would have been a cool moment.

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I remember it as well...waiting for WCW Main Event. Sunday evening @ 6:05.

Looking back now, I'm surprised we never got someone portraying Captain Planet in WCW.

Brad Armstrong claimed he asked to be Captain Planet, I remember that distinctly from his ROH shoot since I think I was one of like seventeen people to buy it. This was after Marvel shut down him using the Arachnaman gimmick. His reasoning was that they wanted him to be a kid's character, they didn't own Spiderman, but they did own Captain Planet, so just make him Captain Planet.

And somehow they didn't go with it...

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Mal Kirk (who died in the ring after getting Splashed by Big Daddy) was found in his autopsy to have previously suffered at least seven heart attacks. But he'd assumed they were just indigestion, and kept going. One of Dave Taylor's mentors, he was. I'm reading Bret Hart's autobiography at the moment*, and Bret said Kirk was great to work with. Super light for a big guy.

* I read Pure Dynamite again after Dyno died, and I wanted a second opinion.

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It's also stated in Pillman's book that he had been complaining about what he thought was just bad heartburn before his death. 

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Bound for Glory 2005 was the show he missed as the night before the show he got checked into the hospital. The claim was he had a minor heart attack. He was supposed to face Jeff Jarrett for the title (with Tito Ortiz as special ref)

The WON's for that time period aren't online but Alvarez's Figure 4s are and at the time it was treated as legit. Not sure what has come out since then.

 

I also looked up the x division match I referenced earlier. Nash was scheduled to lose to Sabin at Hard Justice 2006 and hurt his neck(allegedly) the week before moving furniture. Alex Shelly took his place. 

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3 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Just as much as if you also realize Daniel Bryan is not just "an environmentalist" , but he's supposed to be one of the environmentalists where EVEN IF YOU'RE an environmentalist too, he'll ALWAYS have some piece to prove he's better. You drive a car, he'll say "use public transportation." You use public transportation, he'll say "You're still using gas, ride a bicycle." You' ride a bicycle, he'd say "the metals being harvested hurt the earth. Walk everywhere." If you walk everywhere, he'd say "you're wearing down your sneakers- those could be given to a child in a Third World country, but apparently you just need to walk..." . Just saying "well, it's for the environment" hides the whole "No matter what you do, I am better than you, and even if you do exactly what I do to the letter, I still know arguments that will make it so I'm still somehow good and you're still somehow evil for doing exactly what I do."

Being an environmentalist can be a face gimmick, but for wrestling, it almost has to  be in the "yeah, I'm going outside and spraying hairspray out to destroy the ozone layer JUST TO SPITE YOU."

So the original evil plan of Professor Chaos, got it.

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Kevin Nash's post-full time wrestling career on twitter and with stuff he does has far made up for any ill-will I hold towards him from wrestling which there wasn't much to begin with because who really gives a fuck.

When it comes to chest pains, even if you think it's just bad indigestion, if you have the means, get it checked out. It could save your life. Nearly lost a few people that way. My uncle survived an aortic dissection(you don't want to know how painful that is) somehow. The odds on that are insanely low even if literally in a hospital.

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