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DECEMBER 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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If I had to guess at what a big angle would be to drive ratings it would be them redoing the pipe bomb promo, but with Rollins this time. 

Or something else entirely, but it won't be an invasion angle. Vince doesn't have the patience to do it nor does he have the confidence in NXT callups to do it. 

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9 hours ago, Craig H said:

If I had to guess at what a big angle would be to drive ratings it would be them redoing the pipe bomb promo, but with Rollins this time. 

Or something else entirely, but it won't be an invasion angle. Vince doesn't have the patience to do it nor does he have the confidence in NXT callups to do it. 

Given how WWE tends to be, for a big angle:

What the IWC thinks it'd be: NXT vs. WWE InVasion!

What the jaded fans think it'd be: "Monday Night Football's over and they'll take credit for the ratings rising as proof it worked."

What society thinks it'd be: "The Rock agrees to do something at Wrestlemania."

What Vince would probably think does it: "We got Lesnar to agree to work a match on Raw free TV".

What I think they'd do: "Raw vs. Smackdown feud, not at Survivor Series."

What it'll probably actually be: "Hogan is back."

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Oh you evil person. All of those are probably right.

Speaking of AXS and NJ, right before I passed out at 5 AM last night I caught an episode from '15 featuring: 

- Mauro

- Sakuraba (?!)

- the Good Brothers (!)

- AJ Styles (!!!)

- Shibata (awwwww)

and my mind melted. How long ago does three years feel? In this case, like a fucking decade.

They still had Suzuki calling people bastards and losers so some things never change

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Vince getting cheered by fans as he talks shit on the show he actually makes is my favorite part. It will be great seeing Baton take the blame for a show that let’s not forget swept the competition a month ago at Survivor Series in the most meaningless PPV of all.

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23 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

The same fans will cheer and bow to him even though they openly bash WWE online and swear they have tuned off of the product

The ratings numbers say that is not true. I wonder if there are quotes by WCW officials saying "They complain but keep watching." 

I know CM Punk was saying that when he still had dignity and WWE ratings were much higher than now. 

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1 hour ago, Victator said:

The ratings numbers say that is not true. I wonder if there are quotes by WCW officials saying "They complain but keep watching." 

Well, that's the capitalistic ideal isn't it? People who complain about a product but continue to financially support it. If you sell 1000 chocolate bars a day and everyone who buys one complains that they're too expensive, they're actually proving that the price is calculated perfectly. If you sell zero chocolate bars, that proves that either they're too expensive or the quality is too low. If you sell 100,000 and everyone's happy with the price, you aren't maximising profit and you should be charging more. Apple computers cost less than Microsoft ones when they were the number two brand. Now they're the big brand, they're overpriced.

But with the entertainment business, obviously customer satisfaction is important. Even more important now, because word of mouth is a bigger deal in the social media age. You don't want them to stop complaining, because that means they've stopped watching. You want them to start praising instead of complaining, because that means you're doing a good show. And even though the audience has never been in the ring, ultimately the difference between a good match (or promo, or video package or anything) and a bad one is how much the people who watched it liked it, and how many of them there were.

Hardly anyone shit talks Impact now, because the only people who watch the show like it. But there aren't that many of them.

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Hell, even Rollins isn't getting nearly the reactions he did this summer. He's probably the best or second best choice for "the guy" depending on Braun being more the guy or more an attraction, but they've managed to cool Seth off quite a bit before they even pull the trigger. I swear it feels like they are actively trying to prevent guys from getting over.

(My own opinion remains that they should go all in on Bàlor, but that's clearly not happening any time soon.)

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3 hours ago, AxB said:

Well, that's the capitalistic ideal isn't it? People who complain about a product but continue to financially support it. If you sell 1000 chocolate bars a day and everyone who buys one complains that they're too expensive, they're actually proving that the price is calculated perfectly. If you sell zero chocolate bars, that proves that either they're too expensive or the quality is too low. If you sell 100,000 and everyone's happy with the price, you aren't maximising profit and you should be charging more. Apple computers cost less than Microsoft ones when they were the number two brand. Now they're the big brand, they're overpriced.

But with the entertainment business, obviously customer satisfaction is important. Even more important now, because word of mouth is a bigger deal in the social media age. You don't want them to stop complaining, because that means they've stopped watching. You want them to start praising instead of complaining, because that means you're doing a good show. And even though the audience has never been in the ring, ultimately the difference between a good match (or promo, or video package or anything) and a bad one is how much the people who watched it liked it, and how many of them there were.

Hardly anyone shit talks Impact now, because the only people who watch the show like it. But there aren't that many of them.

What I am saying is the customers are disappearing and have been since WCW died. But they try to push the idea that things are fine because a few fans keep coming back. 

WWE did not invent this defense. But I have never seen a healthy business use it. 

They have done an excellent job of making money without having to attract fans. But they are hitting a point where fans leaving is going to effect the TV money coming in. Half empty arenas is not a look I imagine Fox or USA like. 

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It's worth keeping in mind USA desperately needs WWE. You look at the cable ratings on the nights RAW and SmackDown aren't on, and you don't see USA much if any. They decided, understandably, they couldn't afford to keep both, but they are paying through the nose for RAW for a reason.

Fox is more interesting. They are in the process of selling their TV production house, so they definitely need content. But if SmackDown only draws two million viewers, I can definitely see them thinking "fuck we can buy a couple reality shows for one fifth the price and get these ratings"

But these are five year contracts. Obviously, none of us have seen the deals, but presumably Fox can't just cancel them. When a show gets canned, the network generally has to pay for all ordered episodes (that's why you'll see burn offs or unreleased episodes on the DVD or what have you) or at least a kill fee. It's why new shows on the 22 episode model usually only get 13 ordered at the start, and then the network can pick up the back nine if it performs. So I imagine Fox would, at bare minimum, have to cut a pretty large check to WWE if they cancelled it.

Of course, moving it to FS1 might be feasible. They'd be wildly overpaying there, but it would hurt WWE's efforts to sell tickets and network subs and build to their next contract.

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4 hours ago, AxB said:

But with the entertainment business, obviously customer satisfaction is important. Even more important now, because word of mouth is a bigger deal in the social media age. You don't want them to stop complaining, because that means they've stopped watching. You want them to start praising instead of complaining, because that means you're doing a good show. And even though the audience has never been in the ring, ultimately the difference between a good match (or promo, or video package or anything) and a bad one is how much the people who watched it liked it, and how many of them there were.

But that's the problem, because in the social media age, even THAT doesn't work.

WWE is a juggernaut in the Nielsen social media ratings, and that's the big issue- because "Raw tonight was one of the best shows ever, WWE is back!" and "Raw was terrible, I'm never watching again!" are both points in that rating.

WWE long ago seemed to realize in the social media era, the opposite of love is not hate, but apathy. If they love you, if they hate you, they're talking about you, and you're a success.

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13 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I guess one thing they could do is have Brock Lesnar actually defend the title on RAW and then have someone beat him for the title.  It'd be a shocker like if Jeff Hardy had actually defeated The Undertaker. I don't know who..  maybe Rollins is that guy.   

@Matt D avert your eyes.  

There was a moment this year that even I thought they should probably go with Rollins. Now I think Styles is probably the way to go until they properly build up Drew.

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Vince forces Brock to defend the title in an “open challenge”.

Balor, Rollins, Strowman, Elias etc all take each other out through the show. Maybe Brock attacks 1 or 2 to set something up for Mania.

Brock & Heyman in the ring for the main event title match.

Aleister Black answers the call. Hits a single Black Mass & wins the title.

Id also accept Lara Sullivan coming down & mauling Lesnar in a sub 10 min hoss fight.

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