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DECEMBER 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

For those interested, Becky is on today’s E&C pod.

Thanks for that, will be sure to check it out.  And if you all are so inclined her recent episode on Lillian Garcia's podcast is a wonderful listen as well.

Shit, with the way we all go on about Becky we might as well just have a separate thread for her.  And yes I know Rippa won't be fond of that so I at least won't do it.  But if it did occur I would at least understand why.

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It's only been in the past couple years that I've noticed wrestlers looking at the ref's count so they can kick out at 2.5, but there's HHH doing it ten years ago above. Was it widespread even then and I just never noticed? Certainly takes some of the fun out of near falls once you're aware of it.

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55 minutes ago, Swiftian said:

It's only been in the past couple years that I've noticed wrestlers looking at the ref's count so they can kick out at 2.5, but there's HHH doing it ten years ago above. Was it widespread even then and I just never noticed? Certainly takes some of the fun out of near falls once you're aware of it.

I too have noticed that I believe when Meltzer pointed it out after an Okada match. It also helps that you notice this the most with that specific camera angle.

Its probably always been around in some form for a long long time. Like I remember when people pointed out CM Punk’s blatant spot calling. After that I started to notice more and more wrestlers from today, and the past blatantly on camera calling spots. It’s the same with slight of hand with magic tricks. Once you see it, you can never not look for it. 

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On 12/13/2018 at 9:17 AM, Goodear said:

That's going to be a big problem down the line as it hurts the faces she feuds with since the fans are going to cheer her regardless and it hurts her since she doesn't have a strong heel foil like Austin had with McMahon.  The issue Smackdown has had for ages has been the inequality to the heel-face dynamic where the top 3-4 talents on the table were faces.  Now its even worse with it looking like this... (don't get hung up on the rankings)

1) Becky - Tweener 

2) Asuka - Face

3) Charlotte - Face/Tweener

4) Naomi - Face

5) Carmella - Face

You don't get to spot 6+ until you hit a real heel whichever one you want to put there between the IIconics and former Absolution.  Its' going to be an issue and it needs to be addressed. 

 

Down the line can stuff it. The top three of these are fighting each other on Sunday and I am over the moon about it. And I love that two of the three are being cheered mainly because they both recently beat the ever loving shit out of Ronda Rousey and all three are being cheered right now because they are all scared of literally nothing or nobody.

 

The three of them are self-destructive maniacs who will bludgeon each other to death out of sheer jock rage. They are perfect.

The whole company needs much much much more of that.

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Theres such a swift drop off at a certain point with both women's divisions. It almost makes me wish that rather than have a Raw and SD women's champion, that you had a women's world, IC/us and tag titles that worked both shows. It would be so much easier to groom a greener talent (or rebuild a stale talent) for a larger role with that setup IMO

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3 hours ago, Swiftian said:

It's only been in the past couple years that I've noticed wrestlers looking at the ref's count so they can kick out at 2.5, but there's HHH doing it ten years ago above. Was it widespread even then and I just never noticed? Certainly takes some of the fun out of near falls once you're aware of it.

From a kayfabe perspective, shouldn’t they try to keep an eye on the ref if possible so they can try to kick out before three.

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1 hour ago, piranesi said:

 

Down the line can stuff it. The top three of these are fighting each other on Sunday and I am over the moon about it. And I love that two of the three are being cheered mainly because they both recently beat the ever loving shit out of Ronda Rousey and all three are being cheered right now because they are all scared of literally nothing or nobody.

 

The three of them are self-destructive maniacs who will bludgeon each other to death out of sheer jock rage. They are perfect.

The whole company needs much much much more of that.

Even then, it is great, but at the same time it shines a light on the Smackdown women's obvious problem: The face/heel divide has been out of wack for pretty much the entire brand split, and right now the top four is at: You need to turn one of Becky/Charlotte/Asuka/Naomi heel, but the fans basically said "DON'T YOU DARE" to Becky and Charlotte, and from their reaction to the SD match being cancelled would probably do the same for Naomi (and may do the same for Asuka.) 

Throw in that the IIconics and Absolution both really should be on Raw right now for women's tag title purposes, and you're left with the number one heel on SD who should also be there being...Zelina Vega. 

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4 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

This will *not* be mentioned on the E&C pod today.   Today is the 10th Anniversary of this match:

 

One of my all time favorite moments. The perfect cap off to a career year where Jeff was one of the absolute biggest stars going. Love the pop. "From daredevil.... to Champion! From Enigma.... to ICON!!"

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22 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I would love to see Zelina be given the ball and see how far she can run with it but not sure what kind of main event-level match she can do.  I think Asuka would be a tremendous heel and might not have the resistance that Becky's/Charlotte's turns had.

Between Zelina’s stature and ability on the mic she could easily fill an Alexa Bliss slot on SDL, and I think she could be better in the ring too. A feud between her and Asuka with Vega carrying the promos would be fun as hell. And if they’re going with Becky/Ronda or Becky/Ronda/Charlotte, Asuka/Zelina would be a good Smackdown title match for Mania.

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52 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

You need to turn one of Becky/Charlotte/Asuka/Naomi heel, but the fans basically said "DON'T YOU DARE" to Becky and Charlotte, and from their reaction to the SD match being cancelled would probably do the same for Naomi (and may do the same for Asuka.)

Extrapolating from this specific case, there is a... I don't want to say a problem, exactly, so let's go with "interesting dynamic" at work when fans:

1) Overwhelmingly cheer people based on perceived quality of work and some ephemeral notion of deservedness, not fictional alignment;

2) Only want people they perceive meet a certain threshold for quality of work and deservedness to get pushed.

If 1 and 2 are true, then we've essentially got a scenario where fans only--or at least mostly--want people they like to face off in high profile matches. That dynamic can work--it basically has in Japan forever--but it's a really different paradigm than the conventional face/heel split. (There are obvious exceptions, of course. One could easily suggest fans wanted to see Cena and Reigns in order to boo them, for example. And I'm certainly aware Japan has had and continues to have outright heels.)

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Hypothetical question posed by Bruce on today's podcast: Next Monday on Raw, which of these would you prefer?

  • An in-ring Corbin promo followed by a multi-segment Corbin match
  • A series of vignettes set outside the arena throughout the show in which Baron Corbin attempts to embalm a man

These are your only options. You have no access to alternative entertainment such as Seinfeld reruns. 

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