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MLB HOF 2019 Ballot

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Any interest in doing a multiple-choice poll topic? We could vote amongst ourselves, perhaps?

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I hate the Yankees as much as I hate anything on earth and consider them worse than Satan. That said I think anyone who leaves Mariano off their ballot should have it permanently revoked.

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I wish writers would lose their vote for pulling shit like this.  

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Why? I don't see more than five guys on the ballot that are sure hall of famers myself, and that includes the steriod guys. . . . 

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11 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

Why? I don't see more than five guys on the ballot that are sure hall of famers myself, and that includes the steriod guys. . . . 

No offense, but that just says to me your opinion on this is pretty bad.

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If I had to vote for 10, I could, but I think my “gut” says 7 or 8. 

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19 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

No offense, but that just says to me your opinion on this is pretty bad.

Non taken, coming from a guy that thinks Lance Berkman should be in the hall of fame(LOL).

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Does everyone here think the hall of fame is based purely on performance, or do you take influence/importance into account when making these types of decisions?

I'm asking because I don't think Sammy Sosa is ever getting in, but Sammy Sosa is probably a top 5 most influential baseball players of my lifetime.  He was also really fucking good at his peak.

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On 11/19/2018 at 1:29 PM, RIPPA said:

2019 Ballot Officially out if you want to read a cleaner version than what John posted

https://bbwaa.com/19-hof-ballot/

Thanks! This is much easier to work with than what I posted. 

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On 11/26/2018 at 9:54 AM, El Dragon said:

I'm kinda sad nobody engaged me on a discussion of Kevin Brown being the most under rated pitcher of the last 30 years.

I agree wholeheartedly:

 

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48 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

Non taken, coming from a guy that thinks Lance Berkman should be in the hall of fame(LOL).

You wanna know why I don't value your opinion most of all? I wrote out a long paragraph explaining why Berkman had a case, others agreed he was a borderline case, and your entire against him was "LOL"

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48 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Does everyone here think the hall of fame is based purely on performance, or do you take influence/importance into account when making these types of decisions?

I'm asking because I don't think Sammy Sosa is ever getting in, but Sammy Sosa is probably a top 5 most influential baseball players of my lifetime.  He was also really fucking good at his peak.

I think fame and "uniqueness" impacts my opinion a bit. I love weird stories that need to be told for history to really "make sense" for the Hall. And, honestly, it's hard to argue against Sosa in terms of A: Impact and B: He has 600 god damn homers. Basically, if you start putting in roid users, Sosa probably has to be in even if the advanced stat case for him isn't nearly as strong as you would think. He averaged about 49 homers a season over a 9 year stretch. That's beyond bonkers. Only player with 3 60 home run seasons I think too.

So yeah, I put both Sosa and McGwire in. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

Why? I don't see more than five guys on the ballot that are sure hall of famers myself, and that includes the steriod guys. . . . 

I'd be interested to see those five names, because if that's truly how you feel then hopefully you're happy with the Hall as it is, because there won't be too many players added going forward if you see only five sure fire guys on this list.  I think you're on the extreme end of the "Small Hall" side of things and while I'm not truly a "Big Hall" guy I don't think it's hard to see 10-12 definite Hall of Famers with another 5 to 7 guys with potential cases.  There have been excellent arguments made in this very thread for many different guys by multiple board members.  Are you simply a 3000 hits, 500 HR, or 300 wins or no way guy?  I'm honestly asking.  If that's the case and you only see five guys worthy, the guy voting for only two is pretty much horseshit.  I would have much less issue with someone leaving Rivera off their ballot since he'll get in and using that spot to vote for their 11th choice, but to leave 8 spots blank just screws guys since it takes 75% of the total votes to make it into the Hall.  

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54 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

You wanna know why I don't value your opinion most of all? I wrote out a long paragraph explaining why Berkman had a case, others agreed he was a borderline case, and your entire against him was "LOL"

1900 hits, 1200 Rbi's and 366 and .293. Not anywhere near good enough. If you don't have at least 2500 hits and 1500 Rbi's, don't even bother applying for Cooperstown.

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11 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

1900 hits, 1200 Rbi's and 366 and .293. Not anywhere near good enough. If you don't have at least 2500 hits and 1500 Rbi's, don't even bother applying for Cooperstown.

Ya might wanna rephrase those requirements of yours. 

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6 minutes ago, gatling said:

I'd be interested to see those five names, because if that's truly how you feel then hopefully you're happy with the Hall as it is, because there won't be too many players added going forward if you see only five sure fire guys on this list.  I think you're on the extreme end of the "Small Hall" side of things and while I'm not truly a "Big Hall" guy I don't think it's hard to see 10-12 definite Hall of Famers with another 5 to 7 guys with potential cases.  There have been excellent arguments made in this very thread for many different guys by multiple board members.  Are you simply a 3000 hits, 500 HR, or 300 wins or no way guy?  I'm honestly asking.  If that's the case and you only see five guys worthy, the guy voting for only two is pretty much horseshit.  I would have much less issue with someone leaving Rivera off their ballot since he'll get in and using that spot to vote for their 11th choice, but to leave 8 spots blank just screws guys since it takes 75% of the total votes to make it into the Hall.  

Pretty much. If you don't come close to that, you don't belong. Generally speaking, I think that if you have to think about your case, you don't belong. I've talked myself into Mcgriff, he's close enough to the magic numbers. I think the Hall is generally fine as it is, and all the juiced balls(and biceps) in the world doesn't change it. Frankly the part of the ballot that angered me more was the vote for Edgar, as I don't think he belongs either.

 

1. Bonds(I probably wouldn't vote for Steroid guys, but belongs)

2. Ramirez

3. Clemens(though I think he's one that you could argue that he wouldn't be a HOF without roids, he was closer to borderline at the end of his Sox run.

4.Rivera

5. Sheffield

6. Mcgriff, though he's at the borderline for me

Although if we are putting in the Bonds and company, they should put Palmiero in as well.

I think Sosa and Mac wouldn't have been HOFers without the juice, and I think Mac comes up short anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Tabe said:

Ya might wanna rephrase those requirements of yours. 

I don't think everyone with 2500 hits belongs, but that's the floor for me to take the candidate seriously.  Its about being an all star, its about being the best of all time.

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1 hour ago, Kuetsar said:

1900 hits, 1200 Rbi's and 366 and .293. Not anywhere near good enough. If you don't have at least 2500 hits and 1500 Rbi's, don't even bother applying for Cooperstown.

Yes, because counting stats are literally all that matters in baseball. Also, who the fuck uses batting average as a main indicator in 2018? 

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47 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

Yes, because counting stats are literally all that matters in baseball. Also, who the fuck uses batting average as a main indicator in 2018? 

Very likely, many BBWAA members with actual HOF votes. The same ones that undoubtedly complained about de Grom winning the Cy Young. 

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On 11/26/2018 at 7:54 AM, El Dragon said:

I'm kinda sad nobody engaged me on a discussion of Kevin Brown being the most under rated pitcher of the last 30 years.

Who under rates him? I sort of thought that the conventional wisdom was that he was mostly very good with a couple of excellent seasons. His top six comps according to Baseball Reference are: Bob Welch, Tim Hudson, Orel Hershiser, Don Drysdale, Catfish Hunter, & Milt Pappas. However, the closest comparison is Welch with a similarity score of 945.8, which is to say somewhat similar without being really close. Overall, it isn't a bad group comparison-wise, I'd put Brown dead center in the pack between Pappas at the low end and Hershiser and Drysdale at the high end with Hershiser being somewhat better than most people think and Drysdale not being anywhere near as dominant as people remember. Of his comps, 3 are in the HOF one of whom definitely doesn't belong (Hunter) and the other two are pretty marginal, Vance looks a lot better than he was due to the flashy strikeout totals. The fact is an out is an out is an out whether it be a strikeout a pop-up or a ground-out. Drysdale was certainly a very good and occasionally great pitcher, but he wasn't anywhere near as dominant as his reputation would have it. He was a very good pitcher on a very good team.

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4 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

Pretty much. If you don't come close to that, you don't belong. Generally speaking, I think that if you have to think about your case, you don't belong. I've talked myself into Mcgriff, he's close enough to the magic numbers. I think the Hall is generally fine as it is, and all the juiced balls(and biceps) in the world doesn't change it. Frankly the part of the ballot that angered me more was the vote for Edgar, as I don't think he belongs either.

 

1. Bonds(I probably wouldn't vote for Steroid guys, but belongs)

2. Ramirez

3. Clemens(though I think he's one that you could argue that he wouldn't be a HOF without roids, he was closer to borderline at the end of his Sox run.

4.Rivera

5. Sheffield

6. Mcgriff, though he's at the borderline for me

Although if we are putting in the Bonds and company, they should put Palmiero in as well.

I think Sosa and Mac wouldn't have been HOFers without the juice, and I think Mac comes up short anyway.

Okay, let me take a stab at this:

1. Bonds(I probably wouldn't vote for Steroid guys, but belongs)

The best hitter of my lifetime, period. Even before he discovered "vitamins" Barry Bonds was a HOFr. He was the best player of the 1990s and when you have a Seattle boy making that statement it speaks volumes. Yeah, Griffey was a better fielder, but Bonds was no joke in LF.

2. Ramirez

C'mon, you're going to dog 'Gar because he didn't play defense, the argument could certainly be made that neither did Manny. 😉 

3. Clemens(though I think he's one that you could argue that he wouldn't be a HOF without roids, he was closer to borderline at the end of his Sox run.

Look, I hate the miserable prick, but he was well on his way to Cooperstown pre-Roids.

4.Rivera

When you are the GOAT at your position you go in the HOF, it's just that simple.

5. Sheffield

We can agree that Gary was a fine, fine player but RF is over-represented in the HOF. That said, Shef is arguably the best RF not in the HOF and he makes a reasonably good gate-keeper, below which you don't go in. 

6. Mcgriff, though he's at the borderline for me

It took me a few years, but I finally came around on McGriff. He's the best first baseman not in the HOF and should serve as the gatekeeper spot like Sheffield. 

7. Edgar Martinez: We can argue the merits of 'Gar vis a vis Big Papi, but they both belong in.

Interestingly enough, the best player not inducted is Bonds, the next best will require action on the part of the Oversight Committee as the next best is a third baseman who retired when I was 12 (1969).  His only sin was having a career that almost exactly overlaps Eddie Mathews, and when you're #2 behind the (at the time) GOAT at the position there's no shame in that. Of course I am speaking of Ken Boyer, another fine example of the BBWA not understanding the position and the 50/50 balance between offense and defense. It is instructive to note that despite the overlap with Mathews, over a seven-year stretch Boyer led the league in double plays turned from the hot corner. So it can be argued that while Mathews had better power numbers with his bat, Boyer was superior defensively. 

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9 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

I don't think everyone with 2500 hits belongs, but that's the floor for me to take the candidate seriously.  Its about being an all star, its about being the best of all time.

You said 2500 hits AND 1500 RBI or they need not apply. So no Rickey Henderson, then? 

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This is going to descend into bickering that results in a thread closure, isn't it.....

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