NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 13 in Tokyo Dome 1/4/19

[Beech27]

7 hours ago, Archibald said:

Funny enough, I think that IC title actually fits Omega better than heavyweight title. Him not being around as much and doing more international stuff would make more sense if he was IC champ. I don't know how Ibushi or Omega could really get it now (I think that giving them another win over Naito might be a bit too much), but I think it could provide hot IC title program that it has been lacking for a while now. And they totally need to get tag team titles at some point.

It also might fit Ibushi better, given his reverence for Nakamura specifically and his perpetual desire to just... do whatever. (Since the broad-strokes narrative is that the IC title is the "beat of their own drum" main eventer title, rather than the traditional ace.) He also looks good in white.

Assuming Naito does win the IC title here, I'll be really curious to see how things go. It's a belt he famously doesn't want, and if he's set to (as everyone assumes) go have his crowning IWGP win 1/4/20, you probably want to get it off of him relatively quickly. Perhaps that happens at MSG? But to whom? And does Jericho stick around after this?

4 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Cage to keep the bullet club shitheads from interfering.

I wonder who, if anyone, will get the "even the odds" pop? A true return to form would feature Okada fighting off the whole faction by himself, but... is Shibata too much to ask for? He cornered Tana, and reconciling with the man upon whom he broke himself would be awfully powerful. (Though I still think we're getting Hiromu for the roll-call after Naito's win, and maybe you don't do those so close together.)

The results aspect of the card is already pretty unpredictable (other than the Bucks and Cody losing on their way out), but I'm almost as excited by who will show up/challenge, how bonkers Kenny's entrance is (if he and Ibushi don't do the full Yuri on Ice opening, his entire hockey career was a waste--why learn to skate if not for this--and I'm unsubscribing), and then of course the NYD "wake up hungover, go right back at it" atmosphere. 

[dragonzombie]

The next they're gonna do is heat up Okada again. And push Jay White some more.

 

[Eivion]

13 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Cage to keep the bullet club shitheads from interfering. Rusher Kimura would be proud. I have no recollection of Tanahashi's cage match with Murakami from 2004 and that was during the height of my first Japanese wrestling craze.

Its been years, but I recall it being kind of boring.

[TheVileOne]

Is Tanahashi winning the belt again a foregone conclusion at this point?

[dragonzombie]

Depends on if Omega stays.

[Jiji]

The more I think about it, the more I foresee an Omega victory in the same vein of Tanahashi defeating Okada in 2015 in the shocking result that still makes sense and can work. The tears would flow in the dome.

[FlaeBlazer]

5 hours ago, Oyaji said:

The more I think about it, the more I foresee an Omega victory in the same vein of Tanahashi defeating Okada in 2015 in the shocking result that still makes sense and can work. The tears would flow in the dome.

Or in the same vein of Okada beating Naito at WK 12. Omega with how crazy hot he was, seemed to be the favorite against Okada at WK 11 too. Now that I think about it, other than the passing of the torch Okada/Tana match at WK 10, most of the recent Dome main events have not went the way people expected.

[Archibald]

I'm not sure if Omega was really the favourite for WK11. To me only clear cases are Okada/Tanahashi in WK9 and Okada/Naito in WK12 where guy that "should have won" lost.

I'm also not certain why Tanahashi is the favourite here. Is it entirely because Omega might leave? Just like he might have left after WK11 and WK12?

[Beech27]

I do think Omega potentially leaving is a lot of it. Otherwise, the champion should always be favored over the G1 winner, based on the lopsided history. (I also don’t think Kenny is leaving. And even if he is, I don’t think he’s going to WWE--New Japan is still ascending while his best friends are starting a new promotion, and he cares way too much about people liking him and seeing him as a progressive force in wrestling--so he could probably drop the title later to someone who could use the win more.) But! Watch New Japan long enough, and Tana winning a WK main event, the title, and breaking the G1 curse all just seem to be nature’s course.

I don't have any way to rationalize this, but I'll feel the opener as something of a bellwether. If Ibushi wins, I'll suspect a bookend of victories for the Golden Lovers; if he loses, I'll suspect the opposite. (Again, I know this doesn't really make sense. Ibushi could drop the title in order to set up challenges against anyone else.) 

[Raziel]

This show is odd for a WK, because I can confidently call everything, yet not be suprised if things go the opposite.  Like, I'm 99% certain that Tanahashi is winning, even if Omega is staying and not leaving for AEW.  Mostly because yeah, Omega's reign hasn't set the world on fire, and I can see NJPW wanting a more "traditional" main for the MSG show since the gripe with NJPW right now is trying to be too much like an american promotion and abandoning what brought viewers in in the first place.  Honestly, no result is going to suprise me.

[The Natural]

Go Ace! 

[dragonzombie]

I predicted Okada beating Naito. Tanahashi vs Omega is harder to predict, personally I want Omega to win. They have expansion plans that's gonna require more western elements to succeed. 

 

 

 

[Raziel]

4 hours ago, D.Z said:

 They have expansion plans that's gonna require more western elements to succeed. 

 

 

 

This isn't directed solely at you, but it's something that's been bugging me with the western audience for NJPW for a bit now.  We've been screaming, clawing, wishing, etc at a legit number 2 to come along to compete with WWE, because the WWE product has become stale and boring and predictible and not taking any chances and not listening and the myraid of other reasons WWE viewership is dropping.  

 

Why in the name of Zeus' bunghole are western fans so dead set on NJPW needing to become more WWE like?  Like, what's been drawing people in is that they're NOT WWE, so why the need to add more western elements that doesn't line up with the direction of the company for decades?  Yes, they're not making the inroads they would like in their own shows, but that's they're own fault, and it's not because they're not more like the WWE.  The fans want an NJPW show, not a RoH show under a different banner.  Top stars in "meaningless" matches, well fuck, every indy in the US has already milked that cow dry.   They more have to take the market seriously and produce a real PPV major show than a "Road To..." because we've been getting that for years already.  

 

Impact has been a running joke of "they're always 6 months from closing", and their biggest problem has been trying to be WWE and failing, and starfucking every person that ever worked there.  Why the hell do we think turning NJPW into the same is going to make any difference?  If anything, they should be leaning hard into what makes them different with just enough nods to satisify the Western fans rather than be something they can't.  It's been proven you can't beat Vince at his own game, don't try.  Change the game.

[dragonzombie]

27 minutes ago, Raziel said:

This isn't directed solely at you, but it's something that's been bugging me with the western audience for NJPW for a bit now.  We've been screaming, clawing, wishing, etc at a legit number 2 to come along to compete with WWE, because the WWE product has become stale and boring and predictible and not taking any chances and not listening and the myraid of other reasons WWE viewership is dropping.  

 

Why in the name of Zeus' bunghole are western fans so dead set on NJPW needing to become more WWE like?  Like, what's been drawing people in is that they're NOT WWE, so why the need to add more western elements that doesn't line up with the direction of the company for decades?  Yes, they're not making the inroads they would like in their own shows, but that's they're own fault, and it's not because they're not more like the WWE.  The fans want an NJPW show, not a RoH show under a different banner.  Top stars in "meaningless" matches, well fuck, every indy in the US has already milked that cow dry.   They more have to take the market seriously and produce a real PPV major show than a "Road To..." because we've been getting that for years already.  

 

Impact has been a running joke of "they're always 6 months from closing", and their biggest problem has been trying to be WWE and failing, and starfucking every person that ever worked there.  Why the hell do we think turning NJPW into the same is going to make any difference?  If anything, they should be leaning hard into what makes them different with just enough nods to satisify the Western fans rather than be something they can't.  It's been proven you can't beat Vince at his own game, don't try.  Change the game.

It's not up to me but I know their plans for expansion. NJPW wants the global market more than anything, and they not going to get it with just Japanese taste. NJPW thinks they can match or even beat WWE . Some of their business reports have been about trying to get at WWE. Lot of Japanese in Japan don't mind the non natives poll wise.

Anyways not like the Tanahashi era didn't threw out stuff either. 

[Beech27]

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it’s not as if Omega’s doing late night talk shows and hosting SNL. His speaking English basically makes him a more accessible video game streamer. Which isn’t nothing! And obviously he’s a unique case, having assimilated so completely, speaking Japanese, etc. Maybe he’s the right choice to hold the title going forward—I think he is, for now—but I just hope the calculus is something way more complex than “we need a white guy so white guys will watch.” 

[dragonzombie]

It's more about the English skills less the race. Doesn't mean Okada and others times are over, or they're gonna remove the dojo and remaining Japanese elements from NJPW.

Expansion is a slow push.

Harold wants to compete with WWE. So does BushiRoad.

[Archibald]

What exactly is "western element" in this context?

[Beech27]

 

[Jiji]

That's tremendous news. The card is so damned stacked and winners aren't obvious. While Gedo may not have had his best year in terms of creative, that's certainly relative as he's doing well enough to keep improving business and this is a very exciting card from top-to-bottom. Still lots of room for improvement (those poor tag divisions) but it's nice to be a fan during a golden period like this and get to live through it. Dave's talked about there not necessarily being a great correlation between TV ratings and ticket sales, but I hope NJPW can improve their deal with TV Asahi on the basis of possibly doing 50000 at the Dome.

Looking around at some of the smaller companies drawing ~1500 at Korakuen and it's really encouraging to see a surge support across the board. NOAH's last show did over 2000 (despite the crowd not being all that into it), for instance. 

[iowanole]

10 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

 

 

So the best seats are only $450?  Anyone else surprised by those prices?

[Godfrey]

 

17 hours ago, iowanole said:

 

So the best seats are only $450?  Anyone else surprised by those prices?

4500 yen is like $40 American.

EDIT: Whoops, was looking at the wrong end of the list. Thanks, Oyaji!

[Jiji]

You missed an extra 0. Those tickets are like $640 Canadian. Life isn't fair. 

[Beech27]

Bit of a dart throw, but I think maybe you’ll be able to get a preview of—or a hint regarding—whatever entrance theatrics Kenny has planned.

[Jiji]

About that:

As much as I was looking forward to my notification from YT being the big AEW reveal, this will do. This will do nicely.

Toby Fox is the creator/developer of Undertale.

Okay, I actually watched it and... It harkens back to what Chris Charlton has been talking about for a while now and again on the latest episode of his Eggshells podcast: the match will be based around who is going to be more cruel/merciless. Tanahashi has said Omega is cruel in the way he fights. Chris and Joe Lanza brought up Tanahashi mocking Okada after defeating him in 2015 as Okada cried his way to the back. Or how Tanahashi attacked the leg without mercy to the point where he didn't want Okada to stand. Tanahashi has shown to be every bit as ruthless as Omega in many ways over the years. Plus, jerk face Tanahashi playing the heel may be my favourite incarnation of his.

While the video is tremendous, I can certainly understand why NJPW didn't want it airing before the main event of their biggest show in perhaps ~twenty years. Kenny is going to Kenny.

[Brian Fowler]

Go Ace! Go Ace!