Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Cliff Hanger

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 2019

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, J.T. said:

I would like to se ELP get in there too someday but he's not dead...... er... You're talking about Emmerson Lake & Palmer and not the badass Caucasian half of Run The Jewels.

Sorry, Pete.

I had the same thought and I was like "Damn, I know he's kinda husky but is he in that bad of health?"

I really like Rundgren and would like to see him get in, not just for his solo work but for all the stuff he produced.  I can't imagine him having the votes, though.

Def Leppard feels like a weird inclusion here.  I've always thought of them as a pretty middle-of-the-road arena rock band.  They were successful, but not especially iconic or influential.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OSJ said:

With Rufus I can say that I believe that they influenced Pop, soul, R & B, and hip hop but it's damned hard to say by how much and what that should count for in the overall picture. Evaluated by themselves in a vacuum (which I really feel is the only fair way to go with any act post 1965), they are exactly like the sports teams we both loved, important as hell to the fanbase that was there, but also-rans in the big picture.

There does need to be a bit of a reevaluation of the post-disco pre-new jack swing era of R&B.  Other than Anita Baker and Whitney Houston, who is a certified hall of famer from that era?  

For the record, Prince and Michael Jackson don't count in this particular conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, supremebve said:

There does need to be a bit of a reevaluation of the post-disco pre-new jack swing era of R&B.  Other than Anita Baker and Whitney Houston, who is a certified hall of famer from that era?  

For the record, Prince and Michael Jackson don't count in this particular conversation.

Wow, unless I'm very much off-base, that's a pretty narrow window when you consider some of the biggest disco hits were 1978-1980 and new jack swing really got going five-six years later. I would never in a million years think of including Prince or Michael in this discussion and both are already in anyway. I suppose that you would have to look at influential hip hop acts and of course, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five are already in and were active in the late 1970s anyway. I suppose that I could make a case for Grand Wizzard Theodore, (it wouldn't be a real strong case, but there's some merit to the discussion). Anyway, unless I'm reading dates wrong, we're looking at acts that would have blossomed in about a six-year window tops, and that's sure not my favorite era of music, R & B, rock or anything else. If we're really talking 1979-1986, I think Anita and Whitney is about it, unless you want to add Janet to the discussion and I don't think that's really accurate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I had the same thought and I was like "Damn, I know he's kinda husky but is he in that bad of health?"

I really like Rundgren and would like to see him get in, not just for his solo work but for all the stuff he produced.  I can't imagine him having the votes, though.

Def Leppard feels like a weird inclusion here.  I've always thought of them as a pretty middle-of-the-road arena rock band.  They were successful, but not especially iconic or influential.

Looking at the vote totals thus far it's pretty appalling with Stevie fucking Nicks and Def Leppard just crushing it. Neither one belongs, Stevie as a member of Fleetwood Mac, sure; as a solo act, no way. Def Leppard was the epitome of top-40 mediocre arena rock acts, the only way they should get into the HOF is by purchasing passes. 

Rundgren should probably get the "Musical Excellence" award that they hand out to deserving folk like the late Leon Russell, who otherwise had no chance of getting the votes from a bunch of idiots. I'm much higher on Rundgren as a producer than for anything he recorded himself, one of those cases where I appreciate the talent, but he's just not my cup of tea.   

The MC5 are near the bottom of the list which is a sad comment on the ignorance of the voters, and the Zombies aren't faring very well either. One suffers from their very limited output, the other from being (unfairly) written off as "just another British Invasion band". Tell me, how many British Invasion bands get such consistent airplay and covers of their songs fifty fucking years later as do the Zombies? Wenner should just induct both bands by fiat and then we can close the book on the 1960s as far as rock bands go. 

John Prine is faring poorly and truth to tell, though I echo Johnny Sorrow's sentiment, (I heard Diamonds in the Rough when I was 15 and it fucking changed my life.)   I can understand voters having difficulty reconciling  his music with "rock and roll". On the other hand, if you're going to include Bob Dylan, you better make room for Prine, who is better in every single regard that you might care to discuss.

I don't know why I even care, I haven't subscribed to Rolling Stone  since it was  printed on newsprint in tabloid format. 😉     It's all just an annual wankfest for Wenner to fleece a bunch of boomers and gen-Xr's with too much disposable income out of a few grand each to come to his party.                                      

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OSJ said:

Wow, unless I'm very much off-base, that's a pretty narrow window when you consider some of the biggest disco hits were 1978-1980 and new jack swing really got going five-six years later. I would never in a million years think of including Prince or Michael in this discussion and both are already in anyway. I suppose that you would have to look at influential hip hop acts and of course, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five are already in and were active in the late 1970s anyway. I suppose that I could make a case for Grand Wizzard Theodore, (it wouldn't be a real strong case, but there's some merit to the discussion). Anyway, unless I'm reading dates wrong, we're looking at acts that would have blossomed in about a six-year window tops, and that's sure not my favorite era of music, R & B, rock or anything else. If we're really talking 1979-1986, I think Anita and Whitney is about it, unless you want to add Janet to the discussion and I don't think that's really accurate. 

I honestly think Janet Jackson is the harbinger of the new jack swing era.  Jam and Lewis produced Control and it sounded different than anything else that was going on at the time.  Then Teddy Riley started with Guy, Bobby Brown, and Keith Sweat.  There is an era where Rick James, S.O.S. Band, and artists of that ilk were at the forefront.  

Why aren't Jam and Lewis and Teddy Riley in? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, OSJ said:

Looking at the vote totals thus far it's pretty appalling with Stevie fucking Nicks and Def Leppard just crushing it. Neither one belongs, Stevie as a member of Fleetwood Mac, sure; as a solo act, no way. Def Leppard was the epitome of top-40 mediocre arena rock acts, the only way they should get into the HOF is by purchasing passes. 

                                

There's a reason that the fan vote only counts for as much as one critic vote.  It's a popularity contest that adds a little bit of democracy to the process without overruling the snobby historians.  It's entirely possible (though unlikely) that neither of those end up on the induction list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, supremebve said:

I honestly think Janet Jackson is the harbinger of the new jack swing era.  Jam and Lewis produced Control and it sounded different than anything else that was going on at the time.  Then Teddy Riley started with Guy, Bobby Brown, and Keith Sweat.  There is an era where Rick James, S.O.S. Band, and artists of that ilk were at the forefront.  

Why aren't Jam and Lewis and Teddy Riley in? 

Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis def should be in as producers/songwriters, the list of songs they produced is incredible; I'm going to guess there have to be about two-dozen #1 R & B hits. I actually thought Teddy Riley was already in. Silly fucking me...  Producers have a hard row to hoe with this particular HOF, especially if they worked primarily in a genre not favored by RS.  Sadly, I remember a time when RS was actually a relevant voice of the counter-culture as opposed to the sad parody of itself that it's been for the last twenty or so years.

I think you're probably right about Janet being one of the harbingers of new jack swing, I know this will get us dangerously close to talking about Prince ;-), but no discussion of the birth of new jack swing is complete without a nod to Morris Day & the Time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The usual list of bands I liked but admit maybe shouldn't make it (Devo, MC5), worthy shoe-ins (Janet), cancer (Leppard), token rapper who is still not Rakim, and a continued omission so glaring that it alone is proof of the Hall's complete lack of credibility (Kraftwerk). But hey, maybe Prine or the Cure'll get a free trip to Cleveland out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What has ten legs, nine arms, and really sucks?

 

-------

Personal opinion of Leppard aside, they went Diamond twice, have sold over 100 million records, and were really the band that brought glam metal to the mainstream. There are only five rock bands to have at least two diamond albums, and the others are Van Halen, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and The Beatles. They had 14 top 40 hits, including a number one. As a metal band. I think the question isn't should Def Leppard be in the hall of fame, it's why did they not get in during the first 14 years they were eligible.

 

---------

Def Leppard

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, OSJ said:

I think you're probably right about Janet being one of the harbingers of new jack swing, I know this will get us dangerously close to talking about Prince ;-), but no discussion of the birth of new jack swing is complete without a nod to Morris Day & the Time. 

Honestly, I don't think an actual band can be considered New Jack Swing.  I think the thing that makes New Jack Swing stand out is that it isn't the music that funk and R&B bands played.  It is spliced together like a hip-hop song.  Even though Control is full of live instrumentation, all of it is played individually and pieced together like you'd layer samples on a hip-hop beat instead of hiring a band to play.  Listen to "Nasty," from Control and compare it to anything that came before it.  I bet it sounds more like the hip-hop of the time than the R&B.  The Time is part of the 79-86 era, not the New Jack Swing era, even though they kind of fathered the style.  I honestly think the thing that separated the 79-86 era of R&B and the New Jack Swing era is that every R&B artist made a choice to either embrace hip-hop or to not embrace hip-hop.  Jam and Lewis, Teddy Riley, etc. embraced it, and created something new.  The artists that didn't embrace hip-hop kind of faded away.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that we're in so much agreement on this that there isn't really any point in continuing other than to school the youngsters. 😉 

I'm glad that I have a pretty extensive music collection, that way when one of my nephews says something ignorant, they get the sit down, shut up, and listen treatment. There may not be many fans of The Time in Gallup, NM, but I'll take credit for creating four of them, (yes, the nephews have girlfriends who also get the sd, su, & listen treatment.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×