2018 WON Hall of Fame Ballot

[AxB 5,532]

I thought it was Chris Hero who was the great advocate for Saint's saintliness?

[odessasteps 10,780]

And Quack, but that could have been from the time Hero was still there. 

[francescofuoco1998 8]

Guys, I opened today a poll, but RIPPA closed it, so I'd like to ask about it here.

How would you weigh the criteria? For example, who is a better candidate, objectively (although objectivety doesn't exist)? A huge draw for a short period, like Goldberg and Ultimate Warrior, or a poor draw, but great worker for a long time, like AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Jun Akiyama, Akira Taue? For example, the historian Matt Farmer said that workrate has been overrated today, in the sense that it's a subjective criteria, and also that a lot of great workers of the 60s and 70s are not considered for the HOF (60s and 70s hall of famers are in particular great draw).  Is it right that a great worker, like Bryan and Styles (both DB and AJ are stars but they are probably also not as big stars and they are way less known by people and casual fans than Orton Big Show, Kane, Batista, wrestlers that got few votes, in fact for example Batista, Kane and Show fell of the ballot) is inducted into the HOF before a huge draw and a mainstream name like Warrior, Golbderg and even Big Daddy.  Does a great worker deserve the HOF only because of work, or does he need to be an influential name?

 

Thanks

[Dewar 2,067]

If JYD and Big Daddy can't get in for being draws, I see no reason anyone should be getting in just based on work.

For me, a guy like Samoa Joe doesn't belong anywhere near the ballot until he has done more on the big stage. Him going into the HOF based on ROH work would be like putting someone in the baseball hall of fame because they were amazing in the Pacific Coast League.

 

[Pete 13,437]

30 minutes ago, Dewar said:

If JYD and Big Daddy can't get in for being draws, I see no reason anyone should be getting in just based on work.

For me, a guy like Samoa Joe doesn't belong anywhere near the ballot until he has done more on the big stage. Him going into the HOF based on ROH work would be like putting someone in the baseball hall of fame because they were amazing in the Pacific Coast League.

Plenty of people used to call the PCL a third major league up until MLB moved out west. Just saying.

[francescofuoco1998 8]

39 minutes ago, Dewar said:

If JYD and Big Daddy can't get in for being draws, I see no reason anyone should be getting in just based on work.

For me, a guy like Samoa Joe doesn't belong anywhere near the ballot until he has done more on the big stage. Him going into the HOF based on ROH work would be like putting someone in the baseball hall of fame because they were amazing in the Pacific Coast League.

 

For you, who deserve more to be in the WON HOF?

A great performer with a good historical importance and influence, like AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan, or a huge draw for a short period, like Goldberg and Ultimate Warrior?

[Dewar 2,067]

43 minutes ago, Pete said:

Plenty of people used to call the PCL a third major league up until MLB moved out west. Just saying.

The GWF used to call themselves the Major League of Professional Wrestling. Austin Aries used to claim to be the Greatest Man that Ever Lived. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true.

41 minutes ago, francescofuoco1998 said:

For you, who deserve more to be in the WON HOF?

A great performer with a good historical importance and influence, like AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan, or a huge draw for a short period, like Goldberg and Ultimate Warrior?

I don't think Styles has historical importance or influence, to be honest (unless escaping and surviving TNA is historic). I would vote Styles and Bryan before Goldberg, and way before Warrior.

[francescofuoco1998 8]

33 minutes ago, Dewar said:

I don't think Styles has historical importance or influence, to be honest (unless escaping and surviving TNA is historic). I would vote Styles and Bryan before Goldberg, and way before Warrior.

Would you vote for Bryan and Styles before Goldberg and Warrior because of work?

Do you think that Bryan is more important than Styles?

[Kuetsar 1,508]

I'm sort of surprised Gary Hart isn't already in.

[odessasteps 10,780]

1 hour ago, Kuetsar said:

I'm sort of surprised Gary Hart isn't already in.

That's how I feel about Jerry Jarrett. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 18,814]

8 hours ago, Dewar said:

The GWF used to call themselves the Major League of Professional Wrestling. Austin Aries used to claim to be the Greatest Man that Ever Lived. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true.

I don't think Styles has historical importance or influence, to be honest (unless escaping and surviving TNA is historic). I would vote Styles and Bryan before Goldberg, and way before Warrior.

Joe DiMaggio, one of the greatest players that ever lived came out of the PCL, so I think that makes your argument about the PCL null and void.

I'm a workrate guy, so I'd absolutely vote Joe, AJ, or Bryan before Goldberg and Warrior. 

[Matt D 10,420]

3 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

I'm sort of surprised Gary Hart isn't already in.

I think one element of this is that none of us have seen much, if any, of him befoer the crash. I've watched a hell of a lot of Gary Hart over the last few years and he was really a non-entity at ringside. There was very little he could do physically relative to his peers. For instance, in the Houston footage, with dozens and dozens of Gary Hart at-ringside matches, and a handful of JJ Dillon ones, JJ stood out so much more.

That said, he did have a major connection with the crowd and that allowed him to play a role in key angles like Lewin's face turn, but moments like that were few and far between. I just don't know how well so much of his "work" holds up though.

[odessasteps 10,780]

How much of Gary Hart's consideration is for his on camera work and how much is for his booking? 

[Matt D 10,420]

9 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

How much of Gary Hart's consideration is for his on camera work and how much is for his booking? 

The booking is a little suspect. He gets credit for the build up to the WCCW Freebirds turn but he was gone thereafter. What else would you give him credit for?

[username 258]

I'd go Bryan, AJ, Goldberg, Warrior, then Joe personally.

[odessasteps 10,780]

As mentioned before, I'm not keen on guys still active with years left in their career, even for guys like AJ or Joe or Caristico or Ultimo Guerrero, all of whom I'd say are eventually worthy. 

[Dewar 2,067]

11 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Joe DiMaggio, one of the greatest players that ever lived came out of the PCL, so I think that makes your argument about the PCL null and void.

I'm a workrate guy, so I'd absolutely vote Joe, AJ, or Bryan before Goldberg and Warrior. 

The PCL was a minor league. DiMaggio played four years in the PCL, and 13 years in the majors.

Can we all at least agree that Dave needs to raise the minimum age to vote for these guys to get in? 35 years old is way too young.

[Matt D 10,420]

10 hours ago, username said:

I'd go Bryan, AJ, Goldberg, Warrior, then Joe personally.

Ok, make the case for Warrior. 

[Pete 13,437]

12 hours ago, Matt D said:

The booking is a little suspect. He gets credit for the build up to the WCCW Freebirds turn but he was gone thereafter. What else would you give him credit for?

He was such an awesome heel manager that he was in a horrific plane crash that destroyed his body and left him permanently blind in one eye... and he STILL got his heat back.

[The Natural 21,981]

We've got Samoa Joe, Tetsuya Naito and Kenny Omega as new HOF Ballot debutants on the list, right? Be interesting to see how they do at the first time of asking. Takes something special to become a first ballot HOF induction. Naito and Omega be popular I'd Imagine. Kazuchika Okada will get in on the first attempt.

[Matt D 10,420]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He was such an awesome heel manager that he was in a horrific plane crash that destroyed his body and left him permanently blind in one eye... and he STILL got his heat back.

I covered that to a degree. The new footage is definitely a mixed bag for him

[RIPPA 28,712]

Now we know who Dave will put in (and the bio is written and everything!)

[Hagan 1,096]

I'm not a WWE-apologist by any means but I always hate the arguments where foreign or territory draws get the credit for the houses they pulled but modern WWE guys only draw "because of the brand." Like, is it a hot take to think that Randy Orton and Edge drew a shit ton of money and fans to come out and pay money to see them for years? In fact, doesn't the WWE's quickly tanking live attendance business boost some of these arguments for the 2000s guys? 

Also, on a different note, does anyone take into account TV ratings drawn or is that somewhat irrelevant when evaluating drawing power?

Oh, way too soon on Naito and Omega, too. Naito has headlined one dome show and hasnt' had his legacy run. Omega needs a few more years on top, too.  

[Dewar 2,067]

1 hour ago, The Natural said:

We've got Samoa Joe, Tetsuya Naito and Kenny Omega as new HOF Ballot debutants on the list, right? Be interesting to see how they do at the first time of asking. Takes something special to become a first ballot HOF induction. Naito and Omega be popular I'd Imagine. Kazuchika Okada will get in on the first attempt.

Naito was on last year's ballot.

[RIPPA 28,712]

Just since New Japan names have come up - Ishii will be on next year but Dave already said "I don't think he will get in" so he is fucked