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The Natural

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The best suggestion I've seen anyone make for a "sequel" is to bring Phoenix back but do another origin story, totally different. Play into that "multiple choice' backstory thing from the comics.

I mean, there's zero chance that happens, but it would be amazing.

At any rate, if you dug this movie, and haven't seen The King of Comedy, you should really get on that.

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On 9/2/2019 at 10:05 PM, AxB said:
Spoiler

 A pretty big part of me thinks this movie ends with the Wayne family in Crime Alley AGAIN. 

 

Self quoting but adding a spoiler box? What could that be about? I didn't call the finish, did I?

The thing about the movie is, having seen the trailers, here's a two hour movie and the trailer has a scene that occurs like One hour and 45 minutes into the film. Kind of felt like I'd already seen a lot of it. And the things that I hadn't seen, I pretty much extrapolated. Even a couple of the surprises, I guessed.

Spoiler

The relationship with Zazie Beatz' character, I guessed that that was all in his head. Also, I'm sick of scriptwriters having villains be survivors of child abuse. Plenty of people who had abusive childhoods grow up to be of good character, to know the difference between right and wrong and choose to do right. And having that Gary Glitter song in there, in a movie about how the consequences of child abuse can be bad, that's just tone deaf.

I'm not saying it was bad. It's a great performance in a middling movie. Nowhere near as good as The King of Comedy. And the whole 'they're not laughing now' joke, which the movie frames as Arthur being a terrible, unfunny comedian, was stolen from Bob Monkhouse who is a legit comedy legend.

I don't see any way they can do a direct sequel here. The age gap between Arthur and Bruce Wayne is close to thirty years, so they aren't doing Joker vs Batman. But what do you do? Young cop Jim Gordon as Joker's nemesis? They did that on telly, it was boring.

Is it Gotham City, Gotham State, like real New York, or is it Gotham City, Arkham State? Because either way, the whole DC mythos would be buggered if it was a Death Penalty state. They need to establish that the Gotham court system is corrupt and it's too easy to be judged incapable to stand trial due to mental incapacity there.

Spoiler

So what happened to all the other rioters? It's not like the 2016 London riots, where they all thought they'd got away with stealing a bunch of free athletic shoes and flatscreens, but they all got arrested months later after the cops had reviewed the CCTV.

 

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'The Sixties' didn't start until 1966. 'The Seventies' started around 1973. 'The Eighties' started in 1984. 'The Nineties' began in 1992. 'The Two Thousands' did actually start in 200, so it's catching up. But 1981 was, in cultural terms, in the 70s.

Joker's Mum was named Penny Fleck. But it would have been funnier if her first name was 'Benna'.

Edited by AxB
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I’ll say this much about the movie. The big climactic scene with Phoenix, and DeNiro should’ve happened earlier. I really liked the tone of that part, and I wish the rest the film followed that sort of vibe. Most of the movie felt like a self indulgent Bryan Fuller TV show at times. When I’d rather see faux-New Yorkers get confrontational with each other.

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37 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Here's some more numbers  @The Natural it's going crazy internationally.  Remember this has a $64M budget. 

 

Thanks, @Niners Fan in CT. Hell of a performance. You would think Joker's success result in more rated R comic book films, Elseworlds and villain solos. Only other villains who could carry their own movie like Joker be Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom.

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Both Joker and previously Venom have been extremely successful despite both being handicapped by being not very good movies. Clearly someone should have been making Villain movies all along.

Makes sense really. Crime movies, Mafia movies, they're rarely about what great guys the cops chasing them were.

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

Both Joker and previously Venom have been extremely successful despite both being handicapped by being not very good movies. Clearly someone should have been making Villain movies all along.

You're entitled to your opinion but there is no real comparison here. Joker is not playing in China and Venom was PG-13.  They aren't sharing audiences as much as you might think. 

Edited by Niners Fan in CT
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1 hour ago, The Natural said:

Thanks, @Niners Fan in CT. Hell of a performance. You would think Joker's success result in more rated R comic book films, Elseworlds and villain solos. Only other villains who could carry their own movie like Joker be Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom.

The other character tossed around (and has been for some time) is Magneto.  I think there is potential for a ridiculously awesome and sometimes depressing Magneto film but I doubt it will happen anytime soon. 

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I think First Class pretty much covered the ground a Magneto movie would. Which was, by far, the best part of First Class.

(FWIW, Leo was better in OUATIH than Phoenix in Joker, imo. Which is no knock on Phoenix, but Leo gave a career peak performance and had a way the fuck better script to work from)

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1 hour ago, Bustronaut said:

Have you noticed how many social media reviews for this use the word "empathy" or "empathetic" to paint people who don't like it as bad people?  It seems coordinated.

You mean how like the common talk before the movie was released was that Joker was basically an incel whose motivation was based on his hatred of women. Welcome to the internet, where anyone who wants a movie to fail will use any talking point possible to push the narrative there direction.

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So what happens, storyline wise in thus movie, if the guy in the clown shop never gives Arthur the gun?

See, there's so many ways to attack this hyperbolic slice of controversy bait. It being an anti-gun control, pro-Death Penalty movie is just one of them.

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