SEPT 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[AxB]

You know how WWE is very formulaic in how it lays matches out? Well, a pretty established part of that formula is that any man who wrestles in any kind of shirt of chest-wear will at some point in a big match get it ripped off - either as a babyface adrenalin 'I'm so fired up I'm taking his shirt off!' spot, or their opponent being 'look how nasty I am, I'm hitting him on his BARE SKIN'. But it seems weird that nobody's been booked in more big matches in the last few years than Roman, who constantly does 'I'm fired up!' spots, and usually wrestles guys doing the cruel sadist gimmick. But that bloody vest never leaves his chest. Never even gets unzipped. Has he got a super embarrassing chest tattoo or something? Or is it just the thing Abyss had, where the one time he took his battle vest off*, his physique was somehow suddenly transformed from 'Big Strong Athletic Monster guy' to 'skinny armed flabby bloke'.

* Before he used to bump into drawing pins at least once every fortnight, first he had to do it once, for the first time ever. So they did a spot where he took his shirt off to show how tough he was. And that's what stopped WWE  making a play for him- Vince saw he was in terrible visual shape and said no thanks.

[RIPPA]

Since it was asked here I will mention it - 205 Live was taped before SDL last night.

Hopefully that means the crowd will be much better and going forward they will continue taping before

[Zakk_Sabbath]

7 hours ago, Victator said:

That is what they were doing in the late 90s. Hour one was War Zone and hour 2 was Raw is War.

Yeah for sure but I'm saying I wonder if it would be different if each "division" got an hour

[Guest Edwin]

6 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

The problem is all the Russian ties are probably with Inoki, so the best case scenario would be seeing guys in IGF. Which isn't exactly the most ideal circumstance. 

IGF was unique/fun. I used to follow them as they put on MMA fights which I covered for Tapology. Then they renamed it to NEW some years ago and I just searched for them and they seem to have folded quietly or running events under the radar that aren't receiving much coverage.

[Lawful Metal]

They took off Roman's vest in one of the Evolution 6 mans to hit him with the kendo stick to the back while he was kneeling on the steps.  Roman put it back on before he had to stand up.  I'm guessing he's got Samoan boobs.

[Beech27]

21 minutes ago, Edwin said:

IGF was unique/fun. I used to follow them as they put on MMA fights which I covered for Tapology. Then they renamed it to NEW some years ago and I just searched for them and they seem to have folded quietly or running events under the radar that aren't receiving much coverage.

Inoki's new promotion is INOKI ISM, or just ISM. Here's their twitter account; I can't really find any list of shows or footage, though.

[Guest Edwin]

5 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

Inoki's new promotion is INOKI ISM, or just ISM. Here's their twitter account; I can't really find any list of shows or footage, though.

They've had 2 cards so far. The results are up on Cagematch:

https://www.cagematch.net/en/?id=1&nr=197653

https://www.cagematch.net/en/?id=1&nr=197654

Hasumi/Max the Body, Kunou/Nishijima, Max the Body & Kawamura/Hasumi & Kunou and Norton/Aerts seem like odd/unique spectacles that could be good.

Max the Body is Hideki Sekine under a hood I believe. Super Heavyweight MMA fighter who fought mostly in DEEP with grappling credentials and with experience in ADCC JAPAN qualifying tournaments. Don't think he's ever done any pro-wrestling before.

Nishijima I remember from PRIDE where he had that amazing fight with Mark Hunt. He's a former boxer, so seeing him transition to pro-wrestling could be fun.

Kawamura has strong wrestling credentials and has fought for Sengoku where he fought King Mo and in Pancrase where he's also done a handful of pro-wrestling matches before on small events.

Norton/Aerts maybe the oddest pairing though. Aerts of course has that kickboxing background and has had his hand on past IGF cards and Norton is great, so that should be a unique clash of styles.

[The Natural]

40 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

They took off Roman's vest in one of the Evolution 6 mans to hit him with the kendo stick to the back while he was kneeling on the steps.  Roman put it back on before he had to stand up.  I'm guessing he's got Samoan boobs.

Payback 2014.

[Victator]

2 hours ago, AxB said:

* Before he used to bump into drawing pins at least once every fortnight, first he had to do it once, for the first time ever. So they did a spot where he took his shirt off to show how tough he was. And that's what stopped WWE  making a play for him- Vince saw he was in terrible visual shape and said no thanks.

On the Ross podcast, he said he had decided to stay in TNA. I feel certain, Vince has never seen a minute of TNA. 

[cwoy2j]

1 hour ago, Lawful Metal said:

They took off Roman's vest in one of the Evolution 6 mans to hit him with the kendo stick to the back while he was kneeling on the steps.  Roman put it back on before he had to stand up.  I'm guessing he's got Samoan boobs.

I remember him being pretty jacked when he wrestled as Leeakee or whatever the fuck his stupid name was in FCW. He was kind of flabby when he first started because he was still trying to shed his football weight (he was a lineman in college and in the CFL) but he lost that. There was a pic of him talking with Foley after a recent WM where he didn't have a shirt on and he still looked like he was in good shape.

[ChesterCopperpot]

[AxB]

1 hour ago, Victator said:

On the Ross podcast, he said he had decided to stay in TNA. I feel certain, Vince has never seen a minute of TNA. 

I don't think he'd have let Matt Hardy do  aFinal deletion deal as a Raw main event without t least looking at one of the previous ones.

But the whole WWE promotion is run on the 'to the fuhrer' system. When making a decision without asking Vince, your first consideration must always be 'what would Vince want me to do'.

 

[Technico Support]

21 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I remember him being pretty jacked when he wrestled as Leeakee or whatever the fuck his stupid name was in FCW. He was kind of flabby when he first started because he was still trying to shed his football weight (he was a lineman in college and in the CFL) but he lost that. There was a pic of him talking with Foley after a recent WM where he didn't have a shirt on and he still looked like he was in good shape.

I'd always heard it explained that Vince wanted Roman to keep the Shield gear and music so he'd get the Shield rub and, in theory, keep the Shield's momentum as an over act when they broke up.  Essentially, "fuck those other two guys goddammit they can start from square one pal."

OR Vince just doesn't like those tiny nips

[Victator]

I doubt he saw that. Hunter and Stephanie probably put it over to him. 

Even going back to the eighties, Vince would go off the word of people around him. I don't think WWE would pull a contract offer from a guy they were in deep talks with because he looked fat on a PPV. If only because it would damage their credibility with talent in the future. 

At the time it came across as fan conjecture. There were rumors Abyss had signed with WWE, it never happened. So people decided it was because of that PPV match.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

I was under the impression that it was for his hernia belt that he keeps the chest protector

[Victator]

26 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Essentially, "fuck those other two guys goddammit they can start from square one pal."

Rollins was put with Hunter and Stephanie, which is as safe a spot as you can get. Ambrose while not the priority the other two was, was still more protected than most of the roster. 

[Gorman]

10 hours ago, Victator said:

That is what they were doing in the late 90s. Hour one was War Zone and hour 2 was Raw is War.

I believe it was the other way around.

[Technico Support]

5 minutes ago, Victator said:

Rollins was put with Hunter and Stephanie, which is as safe a spot as you can get. Ambrose while not the priority the other two was, was still more protected than most of the roster. 

Thanks, I forgot all about that

[Curt McGirt]

When the matches board was still here (RIP) I used to grab the more freakshow-type IGF matches, or the stuff that rarely looked like it'd be good. I remember the monstrosity that was Montanha Silva vs. the Predator with awe and fear. 

Inoki brought in Necro Butcher at least, so it was cool by me. And I watched DREAM too which had Inoki show up on a crucifix one late, drunken New Year's haha

[Wyld Samurai]

14 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Up All Night with Gilbert Gottfried

Rhonda Sheer, man!!!!

[nate]

4 hours ago, RIPPA said:

"205 Live was taped before a live SDL audience."

This is how I read that.

4 hours ago, AxB said:

Or is it just the thing Abyss had, where the one time he took his battle vest off*, his physique was somehow suddenly transformed from 'Big Strong Athletic Monster guy' to 'skinny armed flabby bloke'.

* Before he used to bump into drawing pins at least once every fortnight, first he had to do it once, for the first time ever. So they did a spot where he took his shirt off to show how tough he was. And that's what stopped WWE  making a play for him- Vince saw he was in terrible visual shape and said no thanks.

I remember the TNA title match Abyss had with Sting, where Sting hoisted Abyss into the air by a cord around Abyss' ankles.  Abyss' shirt goes up and reveals what could only have been Kuato from "Total Recall."  It was really distracting, and even the girl I was seeing at the time was like, "Is that part of his gimmick?"

[Kang]

There's only ISM which is Inoki run,  never gets tv time though. And the old renamed igf never gets tv either. Hagure IGF is done.

 

 

[Guest Edwin]

3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

When the matches board was still here (RIP) I used to grab the more freakshow-type IGF matches, or the stuff that rarely looked like it'd be good. I remember the monstrosity that was Montanha Silva vs. the Predator with awe and fear. 

Inoki brought in Necro Butcher at least, so it was cool by me. And I watched DREAM too which had Inoki show up on a crucifix one late, drunken New Year's haha

Yeah. I loved IGF. They had a good mix of guys from pro-wrestlers to past MMA fighters to kickboxers to sumo wrestlers and such.

Along that line, there's a Minoru Suzuki vs. Minowaman match from a small DEEP card in Korakuen Hall that I remember being really good.

Kazuyuki Miyata also had some pro-wrestling matches on small MMA shows, but they never made tape which is a shame as his wrestling background and personality seemed like they transferred over well. There's also those beautiful German suplexes he hit on Caol Uno and Lion Takeshi in DREAM.

Here's a bit no one talks about: DEEP was originally going to be a pro-wrestling organization. Mick Foley and the Road Warriors were some of the names Saeki wanted to book on his cards.

Also, PRIDE wanted to book Vader as the big bad foreign heel in MMA. They also wanted to hook Misawa, Choshu and a bunch of other big names in MMA fights.

Yeah, I was a massive JMMA and Japanese pro-wrestling fan back in the day. I'm just starting to get back into Japanese pro-wrestling now.

Edit:

Here's a clip from Minoru Suzuki vs. Minowaman:

 

[Craig H]

Food for thought when it comes to whether or not Vince has seen TNA...

• He barely watches NXT unless he's actually there, which is only for Takeovers (confirmed by HHH and others)
• Vince was so unfamiliar with ANYTHING that went on in WCW that he thought the WWE audience wouldn't know who Sting is (rumors and mentioned by Bruce Prichard)
• AJ Styles wasn't going to be anything more than a mid card guy because, again, Vince doesn't watch NJPW or TNA and AJ Styles was one of the faces of TNA for years (confirmed by AJ Styles)

So I'd say, at best, Vince has maybe watched 30 to 60 minutes total of anything from TNA. It's also not always up to Vince for that shit. That would have been JR's or Ace's or HHH's responsibility. But again, it makes it hard for those people to sell Vince on anything that isn't WWE. If anything, I could see one of those guys managing to distract Vince for all of 5 seconds to show him something on a laptop.

[Victator]

7 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Yeah for sure but I'm saying I wonder if it would be different if each "division" got an hour

I doubt they would have the discipline to do that. Even on the Attitude Era syndies, they would drone on and on about Stone Cold and The Rock and Raw recaps. 

I always thought they should spend time on Raw promoting Jakked and Metal, building up the low carders? Is there something I am missing here?