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SDL is the United States of Nakamerica - 8/21/2018


Dolfan in NYC

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My big question is where they aim to get the heel-face dynamic for Ronda vs Charlotte. Right now the crowd would hypothetically be solidly behind Ronda. What happens the second you put Ronda in front of Sasha? Then you've got your most vocal fans turning on both of the women pencilled to be in your big Mania match and the whole thing goes a bit pear shaped. 

And with the planned Horsewomen vs Horsewomen match and the general shallowness of both womens divisions, they can't get around Ronda vs Sasha forever. 

This comedy of errors has a chance to get even more amusing in the coming months with the booking of the women on both shows converging into a pretty spectacular dumpster fire. I'm investing in popcorn and salt.

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3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

No idea why but watching that New Day clip I envisioned Big E with bright yellow hair like Wesley Snipes in Demolition Man. That would be such a great heel look for him. 

 

3 hours ago, J.T. said:

I remember thinking that the concept for the Golden Lords gang from that Robert Townsend super hero comedy, The Meteor Man, was inspired by Butch Reed's "The Natural" heel turn in WWE when he dyed his hair blonde.

Yeah, the WONDERS it did for Another Bad Creation's career.

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Also, I refuse to call them ABC as this is the real ABC:

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3 hours ago, J.T. said:

I remember thinking that the concept for the Golden Lords gang from that Robert Townsend super hero comedy, The Meteor Man, was inspired by Butch Reed's "The Natural" heel turn in WWE when he dyed his hair blonde.

Not Master G George Wells? 

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Okay I have been semi following Smackdown so I will chime in on the Becky thing. 

Ever since the call-up, I have always had an issue with Charlotte. I had an issue when she put down Sasha who complained about Charlotte receiving the push when Sasha was super over following the eponymous takeover match with Bayley. I had a problem with Charlotte with how she was characterized compared to Becky, Bayley Naomi, and Sasha. I had a problem with Charlotte with how she got over on Asuka.

Even though I did agree with @Niners Fan in CT about Vince favoring blondes, I like to emphasize that I meant that in the WWE you can have the preferred look over the ability. With Charlotte, it is not that she isn’t talented because she is. It’s people with her talent if not more talented than her don’t get as far in push. Sasha is by far the better performer and better media person. Yet she has been in this quagmire the moment she was called up. Asuka is far better in the ring and has far better physical charisma. Becky is the complete package. Naomi is the most athletic women’s wrestler in the world. These women are just as good as Charlotte if not better. Yet here we are with yet another superwoman push. 

WWE’s biggest problem now is the lack of parity not acknowledging it and that is especially prevalent in their handling of the women’s divisions. Becky exemplifies this because she shouldn’t be in the shuffle behind Charlotte or Ronda or Alexa. She shouldn’t be middling. She is one of the best women wrestlers in the world and there shouldn’t be this disparity between her and Charlotte and because of that there is this huge push back against Charlotte.

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1 hour ago, Kyuubi said:

Even though I did agree with @Niners Fan in CT about Vince favoring blondes, I like to emphasize that I meant that in the WWE you can have the preferred look over the ability. With Charlotte, it is not that she isn’t talented because she is. It’s people with her talent if not more talented than her don’t get as far in push. Sasha is by far the better performer and better media person. Yet she has been in this quagmire the moment she was called up. Asuka is far better in the ring and has far better physical charisma. Becky is the complete package. Naomi is the most athletic women’s wrestler in the world. These women are just as good as Charlotte if not better. Yet here we are with yet another superwoman push.

Whoa...I like the tuna here.

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5 hours ago, Eivion said:

Joe is a magnificent evil bastard. Barring Miz beating AJ to setup a WM match with Bryan, there is really no good reason for Joe not to win the belt.

I think AJ holds it until the Rumble, just to break Punks record. He then drops it to Miz.

Bryan is one of the final 3 in the Rumble when Miz comes out and causes him to be eliminated. Someone from Raw wins obviously. Then Bryan has to go through a tourney or multiman match to get his shot at Miz at Mania.

Could even do some really great shades of grey stuff with Bryan helping Miz retain in the rematch against AJ because he is that desperate to get that shot at Miz.

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6 hours ago, Kyuubi said:

Even though I did agree with @Niners Fan in CT about Vince favoring blondes, I like to emphasize that I meant that in the WWE you can have the preferred look over the ability. With Charlotte, it is not that she isn’t talented because she is. It’s people with her talent if not more talented than her don’t get as far in push. Sasha is by far the better performer and better media person. Yet she has been in this quagmire the moment she was called up.

 

I think one thing people overlook a lot is after they finally put the belt on Sasha for the first time they had to take the belt off of her immediately because of her injury of indeterminate severity.  It was supposed to be bad enough that they called up Bayley to cover for her yet she was back within a month or so.  There was then talk that the Charlotte/Sasha HIAC match went home early after Sasha taking a bump that didn't go right.  With Sasha, her issues have nothing to do with talent or presence; they are scared to build around her because they are scared she's gonna get hurt (and after every single time she does a dive I'm scared as well).  Add in that she apparently has a bit of an attitude and... that's how you get here.  It is a damn shame, but I get it.

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I must say the vitriolic reaction to the Becky turn has perplexed me a little. I know people got behind her as a face, but this is a major opportunity for her to get the biggest push of her career and to become the top woman on SDL. The SDL women's division has struggled for months with not having a real top heel (Carmella's funny, but she didn't really cut it in that role), and it was basically necessary to turn one of her, Asuka, or Charlotte. Asuka is limited by the language barrier, and Charlotte can't stay around the SDL division all the way through Mania if the Charlotte/Ronda rumours are true. This also leaves a vacancy for a woman to lead the division and be someone for the faces to chase, and why not Becky Lynch? Becky already beat every heel on SDL during her 'streak', Paige is a face GM and Stephanie is on Raw, so after Charlotte there's basically no one legitimate for her to go against if she stayed in her face role. Sure there would have been a 'BECKY BALBOA DID IT AGAIN!' promo and it would have been a nice moment, but then what? As for feeling unjustified, a lot of the storytelling they were doing since Charlotte's return (both on-air and in social media) was suggesting that Charlotte wanted to stay friends while Becky was only seeing her as a "tall blonde boulder" in the path of a victory she thought was inevitable, right down to Becky refusing to tag her in on the go-home show and afterwards leaving her hanging on tea-time. The triple-threat at Summerslam went out of its way to continue this story, with the early sequence of Carmella tricking Becky into thinking Charlotte had slapped her, the moment of Charlotte almost losing because she was apologising to Becky, Becky breaking up a Figure 8 with a guillotine leg drop, etc:  And Becky saying Charlotte stole her way into the match is Becky being a heel, given what happened on-screen was Charlotte saving Becky from Carmella upon her return, Carmella insulting Paige afterwards, and Paige making the match without Charlotte being in the room.

 

Plus, Becky's really good at this role! Her Gorilla Position interview/promo is top-notch heeling, intense and delusional all at once.

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47 minutes ago, RIShane said:

I must say the vitriolic reaction to the Becky turn has perplexed me a little. I know people got behind her as a face, but this is a major opportunity for her to get the biggest push of her career and to become the top woman on SDL. The SDL women's division has struggled for months with not having a real top heel (Carmella's funny, but she didn't really cut it in that role), and it was basically necessary to turn one of her, Asuka, or Charlotte. Asuka is limited by the language barrier, and Charlotte can't stay around the SDL division all the way through Mania if the Charlotte/Ronda rumours are true. This also leaves a vacancy for a woman to lead the division and be someone for the faces to chase, and why not Becky Lynch? Becky already beat every heel on SDL during her 'streak', Paige is a face GM and Stephanie is on Raw, so after Charlotte there's basically no one legitimate for her to go against if she stayed in her face role. Sure there would have been a 'BECKY BALBOA DID IT AGAIN!' promo and it would have been a nice moment, but then what? As for feeling unjustified, a lot of the storytelling they were doing since Charlotte's return (both on-air and in social media) was suggesting that Charlotte wanted to stay friends while Becky was only seeing her as a "tall blonde boulder" in the path of a victory she thought was inevitable, right down to Becky refusing to tag her in on the go-home show and afterwards leaving her hanging on tea-time. The triple-threat at Summerslam went out of its way to continue this story, with the early sequence of Carmella tricking Becky into thinking Charlotte had slapped her, the moment of Charlotte almost losing because she was apologising to Becky, Becky breaking up a Figure 8 with a guillotine leg drop, etc:  And Becky saying Charlotte stole her way into the match is Becky being a heel, given what happened on-screen was Charlotte saving Becky from Carmella upon her return, Carmella insulting Paige afterwards, and Paige making the match without Charlotte being in the room.

 

Plus, Becky's really good at this role! Her Gorilla Position interview/promo is top-notch heeling, intense and delusional all at once.

Becky rules, Charlotte drools. 

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Charlotte is bigger than almost every other woman, more athletic than all but maybe one, plays heel extremely well and struggled to find across as genuinely likable. It's hard to buy most of the others in the division getting heat on her, she's pretty good at getting heat...

Becky is incredibly likable, sells well, and can work from underneath, while being a fantastic in-ring performer. And people are behind her, and clearly wanted her to win, and are sick of Charlotte winning the belt over and over again.

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39 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Becky is incredibly likable, sells well, and can work from underneath, while being a fantastic in-ring performer. And people are behind her, and clearly wanted her to win, and are sick of Charlotte winning the belt over and over again.

Not to use a cliche here, but Becky is definitely the plucky underdog. The kind that people love to cheer for.

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16 hours ago, Overly Critical Man said:

Charlotte's been screwing Becky over for years. Summerslam was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

You're thinking of Sasha and Bayley. Even in their first feud when Charlotte was heel, the official turn came after Becky screwed her over via cheating. Charlotte has done nothing to Becky since she joined SDL.

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

You're thinking of Sasha and Bayley. Even in their first feud when Charlotte was heel, the official turn came after Becky screwed her over via cheating. Charlotte has done nothing to Becky since she joined SDL.

Charlotte hasn't screwed Becky, but she's been booked more prominently, which is what the fans are reacting to. For better and worse, that's basically subtext in every major feud WWE has done for years now, coded as "opportunities"; so, while one could argue the Bryan run (for instance) was fan-instigated, WWE certainly hasn't stopped using that trope. And if you use it enough... well, here we are, with people cheering while someone fights the most over heel in the company--the perceived whims of the writers/bookers/company itself.

Still, I think A) @RIShane is exactly right that this is the prominent position people have wanted for Becky; B) It kinda doesn't matter, they're gonna cheer for her anyway. People like the performer, and people like an active protagonist. Which can be either a good or bad guy, as it happens. The most important thing is that they take the initiative, that they are the one driving the narrative--and she has done that, finally. That's really cathartic for people, and we've already signed off on violence being an ok problem solving method within the fiction of wrestling, so the fact that she punched Charlotte isn't, in and of itself, gonna turn people.

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Quote

But not every manipulation is perfect. The biggest pop on the show, and the biggest on Smackdown two days later, was for Becky Lynch, who the promotion thought they were turning heel with an attack on Charlotte Flair. I usually can figure out what they’re doing, but in hindsight, I was in disbelief. The whole story, from week one, was that Lynch had been waiting for so long for her title shot in a one-on-one match, and it got taken from her. She was the clear crowd favorite, had Carmella beat with the disarmer in the middle when Flair hit the natural selection on her for the pin. That’s been the classic totally overused heel stealing the victory from the babyface finish used in three-ways since Paul Heyman or whoever it was came up with the idea more than 20 years ago. So Lynch attacked Charlotte and beat her down after the match.

This was supposed to be a heel turn. Well, except that most people at home saw her as the face, and I thought they manipulated brilliantly, even if the announcers were calling it as a heel turn. Plus, in New York at a big PPV, people are going to pop for any turn, because they are into being there for moments and news. Lynch’s turn ended up getting, by far, the biggest babyface pop on the show. They stayed the course and had Lynch try and insult the crowd to be a heel. That didn’t work either. The problem now is that they are booked for a Charlotte vs. Lynch program, with Charlotte as the face. They have to go with the program, and in doing so, they are risking Charlotte becoming the female Reigns.

WON - 8/27/18

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6 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Becky is incredibly likable, sells well, and can work from underneath, while being a fantastic in-ring performer. And people are behind her, and clearly wanted her to win, and are sick of Charlotte winning the belt over and over again.

This actually makes me agree with the thought that they need to move away from typical heel/face alignment and towards a more “shades of gray”/“pro sports build.” 

In the past, a beloved face like you described turning their back on the fans would be seem more like a personal betrayal of those fans and less “ugh, but we want to cheer you, this is dumb booking.”  WWE isn’t helping things by forcing the anti-fans comments in promos. Instead, they could go the black glove Diesel/Canadian hero Bret Hart route of “I’m going to do things my way and my real fans will still be with me.”  WWE embraces their top faces being hated by a percentage of the crowd, yet they still tend to put their heels into generic heel roles.

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8 hours ago, username said:

 

I think one thing people overlook a lot is after they finally put the belt on Sasha for the first time they had to take the belt off of her immediately because of her injury of indeterminate severity.  It was supposed to be bad enough that they called up Bayley to cover for her yet she was back within a month or so.  There was then talk that the Charlotte/Sasha HIAC match went home early after Sasha taking a bump that didn't go right.  With Sasha, her issues have nothing to do with talent or presence; they are scared to build around her because they are scared she's gonna get hurt (and after every single time she does a dive I'm scared as well).  Add in that she apparently has a bit of an attitude and... that's how you get here.  It is a damn shame, but I get it.

Okay. I have been on Sasha for years about her diving because as a traceur, I can tell who has control of their body in the air and who needs to stop playing with their lives and Sasha was ringing alarms because she lacks the explosive jumping ability(as in I think her vert is like 25 inches) and seriously needs to take time of her day and hit the box jumps like Kofi. Sasha always scared me when she does the tope with her head nearly hitting the apron coming down. Not to mention her rag doll selling. However, injury did not stop them from pushing Nicki Bella. In fact, they deliberately pulled her from championship matches to beat AJ Lee’s record. Recognizing injury as a reason to not put a strap on someone for more than 2 fucking weeks is selective. And it doesn’t change the fact that Sasha was perfectly healthy during her first year called up and WWE deliberately ignored fans to push an agenda. 

And do not want to hear about attitude as an excuse when Randy fucking Orton is signed. Orton is the worst public relations nightmare since JBL. Dude is notorious. If Orton could get away with intimidating writers with his dick out, Sasha can have attitude.

I’m not trying to attack you but I am sick of this selective reasoning as why they don’t push others from the WWE. It’s petty business. And it becomes personal when you keep pushing people of the same mold and it starts looking peculiar. I’m not saying Sasha should be holding the belt for years because she clearly isn’t built for that. I’m saying that she shouldn’t be stuck in this bullshit with Bayley and Riot Squad as an alternative because both of them including Ruby deserve better than that. While Charlotte who in my opinion was the least dynamic of the Four Horsewomen was given this golden goose just because of whom she is. There shouldn’t be stars like Roman Reigns or Charlotte when you have the most talent filled roster of all time. There shouldn’t be another John Cena when you have super talented wrestlers all over. This isn’t Hogan era anymore. You have talent all out the ass. People who are capable of holding the ship together in turns and it won’t effect popularity in fact it will make the product more intriguing. 

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