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AUGUST 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.


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Real talk is that Sasha should recognize what business that she is in and what company that she's working for and know that she has a clear ceiling as a) a black person and b) a woman. Yeah, it's frustrating, but that's the business and the company that you work for. 

And no, beefing with the blonde white chick who they elevated over you is not going to help your career options, so maybe she should cool it or leave the company and do something else. 

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17 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Real talk is that Sasha should recognize what business that she is in and what company that she's working for and know that she has a clear ceiling as a) a black person and b) a woman. Yeah, it's frustrating, but that's the business and the company that you work for. 

And no, beefing with the blonde white chick who they elevated over you is not going to help your career options, so maybe she should cool it or leave the company and do something else. 

My friend, I couldn't disagree more... How did that ceiling that you speak of work out for Rocky Johnson's kid, what was his name? Oh yeah, Dwayne...

b. Is a far more telling point than (a.), it's much better now than it was even ten years ago, but VKM's obsession with large-breasted blondes hasn't changed much, nor will it while he's still kicking. Only now (after a decade of the so-called women's revolution) are we seeing a women's PPV.  The utter ruination of both Asuka and Ronda shows me that Kevin Dunn and VKM still have their disgustingly moist palms all over everything. 

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33 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Not to mention it creates a bad vibe in the locker room.

It doesn't though according to social media.  Sasha is the one in the locker room who is friends with everyone.  Naomi, Nattie, Bayley, Tamina, New Day, Dana, Titus, Seth, AJ, Apollo, Tozawa, Sheamus, Dash, Dawson, Liv Morgan, Kalisto...   she is friends with all of these people, her and Mikaze's house is a chill spot. 

Alexa is one where you don't see her chillin with many people. This idea that Sasha is a locker room troublemaker isn't true.   It's literally only Alexa she has an issue with. 

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9 minutes ago, OSJ said:

My friend, I couldn't disagree more... How did that ceiling that you speak of work out for Rocky Johnson's kid, what was his name? Oh yeah, Dwayne...

b. Is a far more telling point than (a.), it's much better know than it was even ten years ago, but VKM's obsession with large-breasted blondes hasn't changed much, nor will it while he's still kicking. Only now (after a decade of the so-called women's revolution) are we seeing a women's PPV.  The utter ruination of both Asuka and Ronda shows me that Kevin Dunn and VKM still have their disgustingly moist palms all over everything. 

I knew someone would mention The Rock, but he doesn't even identify as black. He identifies as Samoan. There's a bit easier road to the top for Samoans in the company, for whatever reasons there are.

But even giving you The Rock, whom people might consider to be black because of his father even though he prefers not to identify in that manner, he's it. They gave Booker T and Mark Henry runs with the secondary world titles when there were two titles, but this isn't a company that's going to elevate black people or, outside of people of Polynesian or Indian descent, Asian people. 

...and that's before I get into the years of, and I'm being nice here, racially-insensitive gimmicks and angles that this company loves to run. The New Day is a great example of this before the guys in the group took hold of their own gimmick and undercut the minstrelsy of the whole thing by being very self-aware of it and lampooning it via exaggeration and also by bringing in elements that people don't identify traditionally with black wrestlers (like nerding out by playing the Final Fantasy victory theme on a trombone). 

And even with how over they got and have (evidently) remained, the company hasn't even tried to push one of the group as a potential company  centerpiece. 

This is why, with all due respect to you sir, I don't find any argument that hinges on "They elevated The Rock" as strong counter-evidence about how the company feels about race. I won't belabor the evidence in favor of my point. 

I also think that Sasha, as an "unconventional beauty" (read: not blonde and white) has it rough. This is probably a part of why apparently Becky Lynch can't get pushed commensurate with her overness and her work (I'm taking this from what I've read here; I admittedly don't watch the shows anymore). 

I almost didn't type that post because mentioning race and gender causes posting of the sort that we've had already in this thread, but it's so obviously a thing that matters when talking about Sasha's push and also some of her bitterness toward Alexa that I decided to mention it. 

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The reason why The Rock had it easier is due to the Anoa'i family background, which opens doors.  Generational wrestlers have an easier time getting in the door with Vince.  If you are a generational wrestler and your father or grandfather worked with Vince, his father, or grandfather the door is wide open.  

 

I think Sasha is doing a great job of working the marks with her new gimmick.

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7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm going off topic here but I was thinking how WWE creative vs. the fans has become the biggest issue facing all of the talent. It can be argued that the fans "whining" about Daniel Bryan led to him becoming a much bigger star and it gave us a great WrestleMania journey.  But it also fucked up things for Roman and on down the line.  Roman Reigns was probably the most over guy other than Bryan at the time.  But because he is the Vince guy slotted above Bryan...  that ends up ruining his momentum and it kind of caused this entire 4-year run of ups and downs. 

If the fans had just left the Batista/Orton thing alone,  then Roman Reigns would have been the guy to unseat one of them and I think it would have been received well.  I think this past four years would have been a lot better viewing than Bryan giving us that moment and then he goes out injured and now Roman is damaged. 

The best thing for fans to do for Becky might be to boo her even if WWE creative did a horribly dumb thing by turning her. Because if they don't boo Becky,  Charlotte is on her way to becoming the female Reigns. WWE creative is going to push Charlotte no matter what and if it's not accepted they will try harder and harder. 

I blame WWE for all this because creative sucks but I think in a way fans are making things worse too. 

I wish I could remember which Austin podcast it was but he had a really great monologue where he talked about how the WWE has made the promotion itself a heel due to all of the heel authority figures. He contrasted that with how Bill Watts played an authority figure. He basically just ran down matches and was there to ensure everyone, heel or face got a fair shake. They never blathered on about who the "face of the company" was and all of that. 

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9 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

I wish we could get Regal doing his GM bit on Raw or Smackdown.

We both know he will get Hornswoggle as assistant within four weeks leading to 'hilarious' skits of him chasing the little guy or Nicholas and Hornswoggle conspiring against Regal (since they are both "kids"). 

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I was wondering about the whole authority figure thing recently. It's just a lazy way to make matches, and a hard spot for them to get out of due to the audience being conditioned into always having an authority figure.

Hell, I've been watching wrestling since 91 and can't remember how feuds and matches happened without some mouthpiece saying so

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14 hours ago, AxB said:

I don't remember who it was, but I saw someone in a shoot interview saying Prince Devitt went to WWE because he'd already done his art-work, and now it's time to do his money-work. Sasha's trying to make art in a place that is not conducive to artistry.

It's a nice sentiment, but Banks thinks she's Van Gogh while she's really Thomas Kinkade. 

8 hours ago, Victator said:

If she or Rollins say no to a picture or autograph, that is their prerogative. My issue was them humiliating someone after the fact when the person was thanking them. In no world is that cool. 

This.  You don't sick your thirsty legion of mark-ass stans on a guy because you didn't like how he went about getting an autograph. 

Don't get me wrong.  Everyone involved was an asshole, but there's a reason real actual stars hire someone else to do their social media.  Bullying a fan, no matter how shitty that fan is, is really awful.

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1 hour ago, ReiseReise said:

We both know he will get Hornswoggle as assistant within four weeks leading to 'hilarious' skits of him chasing the little guy or Nicholas and Hornswoggle conspiring against Regal (since they are both "kids"). 

You act like that wouldn't be hilarious. Regal spun gold out of an angle where Jericho pissed in his tea.

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34 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

You act like that wouldn't be hilarious. Regal spun gold out of an angle where Jericho pissed in his tea.

Oh, Regal and Swoggle would be amazing. The Nicholas stuff would suck, though. And it would be vastly different from NXT Commish Regal, which was my main point. 

My favourite Regal moment will forever remain the "kiss cam" with Zack Ryder. 

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9 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It doesn't though according to social media.  Sasha is the one in the locker room who is friends with everyone.  Naomi, Nattie, Bayley, Tamina, New Day, Dana, Titus, Seth, AJ, Apollo, Tozawa, Sheamus, Dash, Dawson, Liv Morgan, Kalisto...   she is friends with all of these people, her and Mikaze's house is a chill spot. 

Alexa is one where you don't see her chillin with many people. This idea that Sasha is a locker room troublemaker isn't true.   It's literally only Alexa she has an issue with. 

I didn't say she was a troublemaker. Stop insisting that we're raking Sasha across the coals here or that Alexa is friendless. Alexa just played Fortnite with Xavier, Ember, and Tyler Breeze. She's on good terms with Braun and likely hangs out with Buddy Murphy's friends.

No one has branded Sasha unworthy of fans or career advancement. But there's no denying having issues with a fellow top star may potentially create prickly moments in both directions. However, Sasha is the one saying she doesn't want to work with Alexa.

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Wait, I'm a little fuzzy with what the issue is with the airport creeper guy, or rather, I'm fuzzy on people defending him. He got made fun of because he is a creeper. He habitually shows up at the airport for the sole purpose of getting these pictures. He has no actual business being at the airport except to beg for photographs. That's fucking creepy. They're human beings, leave them alone. Is your life so pathetic that you have to constantly plan out your day to know when and where to show up to express that you're a fan and ask for a photo? 

If the guy did this once or twice, I would say that everyone involved in mocking him is an asshole. This isn't that though.

More importantly, multiple people in this thread will take a big steamy shit all over Green Lantern Fan and even people who sit in the front row at every PPV for doing less than what the airport creeper guy did, but when it's the wrestlers taking a shit on someone who is exhibiting questionable behavior, that's too far? What kind of twisted moral authority is that? Green Lantern Fan has been shit on for years for basically doing something similar to what the airport guy is doing and he was shit on well before he started showing up at wrestler's funerals.

The other amusing part to this is that, at least in Victator's case, there's a whole double standard here. It wasn't even two weeks ago he mocked the guy who did the voice work and mocap work for Jar Jar Binks for wanting to kill himself because of how he was treated online all for just being Jar Jar Binks. Multiple people had to point out that he did want to kill himself specifically because of that reason. So in that case, dude show grow a thicker skin and shouldn't let people push him to want to end his life, but in the case of the airport guy it's vitriol and outrage over the response he got online.

It's fine if you want to take that stand, but I guess I don't understand where the line is for some of you and why it's dismissed in some instances and in others it receives a stronger response. Is it because it's different forms of entertainment and one receives more love than the other?

Finally, I see a whole lot of people saying Sasha and anyone else should just suck it up and know what the business entails, but how about just being a normal human being and go on with your life? My friend, a huge wrestling fan, was on the el with one with of his favorite wrestlers about a couple years ago. He just nodded towards the guy and the wrestler did the same. They just happened to be in the same place at the same time. Maybe if it looks like someone isn't busy and again you're both coincidentally in the same place at the same time you say, hey, I'm a big fan of your work and I appreciate what you do. Maybe you even ask for a picture, but they don't have an obligation to take that picture and more importantly, as a decent person, you should be smart enough to recognize if that's stepping over some kind of a line and if you get that sense, move on. It's not worth it. If you like that celebrity enough to ask for something from them then also like them enough to recognize if they're uncomfortable and drop it. And yeah, some wrestlers are way better than others with interacting with fans. Good for them. I think that's great. Not EVERYONE has to be like that though and I don't understand where some people get off thinking that because Wrestler A takes pictures with everyone then Wrestler B should also be the same.

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18 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

I didn't say she was a troublemaker. Stop insisting that we're raking Sasha across the coals here or that Alexa is friendless. Alexa just played Fortnite with Xavier, Ember, and Tyler Breeze. 

It is my honest sentiment that TRUE friends should stop each other from playing Fortnite. I really can't get into that game. Other than that I fully agree with your thoughts on the situation, so best ignore my attempt at being funny... 

39 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

In fairness to the concept of heel authority figures, lots of legit sports have people who make vindictive, petty, or arbitrary decrees to steer the action. In baseball, they're called umpires. 

That’s a pretty good point. I would actually agree that a corrupt, power hungry... Well let's say a Sepp Blatter... has a strong base in reality. I think the troubling part is when the Authority opens the show, gets multiple segments over the night AND is part of the main event. The act is way too cold to be omnipresent like that. 

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If properly used, authority figures can make pro wrestling feel more like actual sports. Top-tier stars having problems with such figures is realistic, too. Drake Maverick gets it right on 205 Live.

They'd probably do better if they presented Triple H and Steph for who they really are: the future owners of WWE. That way, if they have a bias toward or against someone, they can they're trying to put forward the best product that makes them the most money.

Money is missing in wrestling these days. WWE is signing billion-dollar contracts, yet no one has went in and asked for a raise? Heck, just have a wrestler ask for more matches because more TV time means more money. Everyone should be going after Roman if for no other reason, a match with the Universal champion comes with a bonus. Make money important again.

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On 8/23/2018 at 3:08 AM, Niners Fan in CT said:

So today I was forced to donate to the Susan G. Komen fund. I'll explain and I'm not against Susan G. Komen,  I've just heard some sketchy things about the organization.  I'm going to a RAW in Providence.  Most of the best tickets available had a $15.00 basically donation fee tied into the face value. So if I wanted good seats,  gotta throw some towards Susan G.  

Niners buddy - I think you got hosed or maybe selected the wrong ticket type. There's a $15 difference for something described as a "WWE Supports Susan G Komen 3D Collector Ticket" 

Same seats - different prices

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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

In fairness to the concept of heel authority figures, lots of legit sports have people who make vindictive, petty, or arbitrary decrees to steer the action. In baseball, they're called umpires. 

No, sir. In baseball they are called "owners".

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49 minutes ago, Craig H said:

More importantly, multiple people in this thread will take a big steamy shit all over Green Lantern Fan and even people who sit in the front row at every PPV for doing less than what the airport creeper guy did, but when it's the wrestlers taking a shit on someone who is exhibiting questionable behavior, that's too far?

I'm the guy who took Vic to task over the Jar Jar Binks thing.  I guess I'm just anti Internet backlash beatdown bus bullshit in most cases.  Yes, the airport guy is a shitty person and a creeper, but what if he killed himself after thousands of Beyhive-like Sasha fans came after the guy?  Would that be a deserved end for him?  That's my reasoning behind it.  I don't think it's right that a public figure can direct the full power of a legion of online lunatics to go after a private citizen unless they really deserve it.  "This guy made me uncomfortable at the airport" doesn't qualify, in my book.

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