AUGUST 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

18 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Not to hijack the thread, but is George's brother (who he mentioned while parallel parking with Elaine) the biggest continuity/story flaw?

Spoiler

Jerry mentions his sister in the Chinese Restaurant episode. She's never mentioned again. After Jerry takes away Kramer's keys to Jerry's apartment, Kramer takes off to LA, as we found out from Newman, but before that Jerry calls Kramer's mother to see if she knows where he is. Then, in "The Switch", Kramer initially says he can't help George, eventhough his mother is a matron because he hasn't spoken to his mother in five years.

BTW, I know a little something about the kind of reaction everyone has when they find out Kramer's name is Cosmo. In fact, I've been getting asked if I watch Seinfeld since about 1995 when they divulged Kramer's name. 

Yes, I just divulged my secret to my Seinfeld DVDVR brethren.

 

 

[mattdangerously]

3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What's this about? What guy? She made it clear she doesnt like be stalked at hotels and airports and she's a woman... people need to let her live. Anything could happen. She treats fans who are respectful with respect. All over IG you can see her being cool to her fans.

Nobody enjoys going to the airport. It is a thoroughly miserable experience. Don't make it worse by harrassing someone famous just because you recognize them.

2 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Adults who request phone pictures with their favorite wrestlers are kinda creepy. You're not nine, dude. Just be like, "Cool, it's Sasha Banks" and keep it moving. 

Booker T and his first wife went out for lunch together at a restaurant I worked at in 2000. I recognized him before they'd even made it to the front door. But I left them alone to eat in peace because I am a fucking adult who understands appropriate social behavior norms.

[John from Cincinnati]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

But then you are passed over for a promotion by someone who knows the President of the company.  You'd say "damn,  that wasn't fair" but you'd understand because shit,  that's life.  That happens all the time.  So you continue to work towards that promotion but now you are passed over by someone who clearly isn't even in your league.  Now you really start wondering "motherfucker,  when am I going to get some credit around here?"

It's highly debatable that either of these beliefs are valid.

[MORELOCK]

Yeah, I don't care how good Sasha is, there's no excuse for the boo-boo face. It's unprofessional.

It's also a perfectly valid reason to pass her over for opportunities. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, Victator said:

You were not joking. Come on don't be disingenuous. 

Your points were

A. Sasha has 120 pound woman privilege and is entitled to abuse people.

B. That going to an airport to meet a celebrity is an unforgivable sin. 

C. That she is nice to kids and that should excuse humiliating a few people. 

Now if I am wrong on that being your argument, please tell me. 

Now to answer what I believe your "valid" points are. 


A. I disagree as she was in no danger. Especially after the fact and he was THANKING her and Rollins. 

B. Its misguided and I would not do that. They are guilty of poor judgment, but nothing malicious. 

C. I don't think those good deeds erase being shitty to someone. But I am glad she is nice to kids. 

I also brought up Seth Rollins, because he did the same thing and is just as shitty for it. 

 

No I said she was not a monster. She is at least able to be nice to children. She is a dickhead though and clearly in the wrong. She (and Seth Rollins) had a degree of power over someone and chose to abuse it. That is a shitty thing to do. If the worst thing in their life is a misguided person wanting their picture. Then I envy them. 

Now lets look at this from a common sense standpoint. 

The guy sent her and Rollins tweets with pictures of them together. Now that stands to reason the interactions went relatively well. Now you can say she was afraid and maybe so. Her expression came across as not afraid. Rollins does not have that excuse. 

Again he was tweeting them to thank them and they do that. That is a shitty thing to do to someone. Even if he did go to an airport to meet a celebrity. 

I find when people talk about accountability, it is almost always to excuse shitty behavior. 

That does not change my opinion of either as wrestlers. I don't choose entertainment because somebody is a nice person. 

Well this is a very lengthy post made up of stuff I'm pretty sure I never said but I will take a crack at it.  

A. "woman privilege"?   What are you trying to say here?  I didn't say she can do whatever the fuck she wants.  I said she should be given some leeway with people lurking airports and hotels because she is a smaller person.   You are in no place to say what someone should consider dangerous.  

B. Okay,  so it's misguided.  I didn't say these fans deserve the death penalty.  But I do think they are shitty fans,  especially because most of them have been caught trying to resell autographs and shit on Ebay.  

C. Where did I mention just kids?  She is nice to a lot of fans,  I saw posts before where her and her husband were out in Vegas and she took time to take pictures with people at the casino while she was with her husband and she was smiling and hugging them.  That's pretty cool if you ask me because she didn't have to do that at all.  Yes, of course she is nice to kids. There's hundreds of instances where people are having good interactions with her but you want to focus on a few where it didn't go well. 

A2.  Again,  we are in no place to say what she feels is dangerous and she also doesn't have to be "on" 24/7.  She has rough days too.  I'll get to that in a second.  

B2. Okay, again they are misguided.  They don't deserve death.  She doesn't deserve to be shit on because she posted something making fun of them either.  Even if I said they were both in the wrong you would still disagree with that.  I absolutely believe these types of fans are wrong.  

C2. Yes, she is nice to kids. We went over that. 

"If the worst thing in their life is a misguided person wanting their picture. Then I envy them."  Now this is the quote that irritates me a little because you have no idea what is going on in her personal life. 

We know some about her background, I've seen interviews. She dropped out of school to take care of her brother who is special needs.  Her mom was at work, single mother, their father left them behind.  They lived in hotels and sometimes slept in cars.  You can try to judge her mom but I don't think that would be smart.  You can't blame Sasha, she was in middle school and then high school and dedicated her life to helping her brother.  They didn't get the right help for her brother until Sasha was like 18-years old and that is when she started training to wrestle. Wrestling was all her and her brother enjoyed on TV when they were home alone.  She had no friends,  no life experiences,  so maybe that's another reason why she has difficult trusting random fans in airports. Maybe she is scared.  She never had a grown man who she could trust in her life. Now she's married and everything else but I'm assuming her childhood had a pretty big impact on how she is now and she is still only like 25-years old.  

[Niners Fan in CT]

16 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

It's highly debatable that either of these beliefs are valid.

How so?  Charlotte said herself that Sasha is better but Sasha doesn't even have an issue with that. I'm sure she would have liked to carry the title longer in their feuds, they had some differences but they are still friends.  

There are others who are not in Sasha's league and have been given more opportunities than her,  I'm not getting into that again because that's not the main point of this discussion. Whether you believe it or don't believe...   she believes it and I have no issue with her voicing an opinion.  

I think it's funny because when athletes don't voice their opinion then everyone says "what a shithead,  I want to hear what he REALLY thinks.."   and then when an athlete does say how they feel they get shit on for that too.  It's a no win.  

If you are an Alexa Bliss fan and thinks she is great,  that's wonderful.  I'm not going to spend more time talking about that. 

[odessasteps]

 

[Victator]

If she or Rollins say no to a picture or autograph, that is their prerogative. My issue was them humiliating someone after the fact when the person was thanking them. In no world is that cool. 

[Victator]

4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

 

How did things like that get recorded? I saw a 1964 Tonight Show was discovered recently and I wonder how it was recorded. Unless a station manager recorded it like one intrepid soul who saved the first Super Bowl. 

[PetrolCB]

35 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

  Hide contents

Jerry mentions his sister in the Chinese Restaurant episode. She's never mentioned again. After Jerry takes away Kramer's keys to Jerry's apartment, Kramer takes off to LA, as we found out from Newman, but before that Jerry calls Kramer's mother to see if she knows where he is. Then, in "The Switch", Kramer initially says he can't help George, eventhough his mother is a matron because he hasn't spoken to his mother in five years.

BTW, I know a little something about the kind of reaction everyone has when they find out Kramer's name is Cosmo. In fact, I've been getting asked if I watch Seinfeld since about 1995 when they divulged Kramer's name. 

Yes, I just divulged my secret to my Seinfeld DVDVR brethren.

 

 

 

I remember when that episode aired. It was such a big deal. Nobody asks when I started watching, they just assume forever, since I know so much about nothing. But I pretty much watched it from season 3 and on. I dunno why, but my mom had no problem with me staying up late to watch those NBC lineups every night.

[John from Cincinnati]

15 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Charlotte said herself that Sasha is better

I don't think Charlotte's rubber stamp has anything to do with what Sasha's employer values in his performers.

Quote

There are others who are not in Sasha's league and have been given more opportunities than her,  I'm not getting into that again because that's not the main point of this discussion. Whether you believe it or don't believe...   she believes it and I have no issue with her voicing an opinion.  

I think it's funny because when athletes don't voice their opinion then everyone says "what a shithead,  I want to hear what he REALLY thinks.."   and then when an athlete does say how they feel they get shit on for that too.  It's a no win.  

I have no problem with her voicing her opinion. She's welcome to conduct herself however she chooses. If a consequence of that is people realizing what a disruptive, unpleasant malcontent she is, so be it.

Lots of my favourite performers are disruptive, unpleasant malcontents. I'm happy I don't have to spend any time interacting with them in a professional context. Beyond that, I have no problem seeing them as they are and still liking them if my enjoyment of their work outweighs their clear foibles. 

Not sure how this tangent got directed at me when I merely remarked on the subjectivity of Sasha's merits as a performer, but there's my response. 

[PetrolCB]

4 minutes ago, Victator said:

How did things like that get recorded? I saw a 1964 Tonight Show was discovered recently and I wonder how it was recorded. Unless a station manager recorded it like one intrepid soul who saved the first Super Bowl. 

Either a copy of the master tape, or like Bing Crosby’s complete copy of Game 7 from the 1960 World Series, the television was filmed with a high quality reel-to-reel camera. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

6 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I remember when that episode aired. It was such a big deal. Nobody asks when I started watching, they just assume forever, since I know so much about nothing. But I pretty much watched it from season 3 and on. I dunno why, but my mom had no problem with me staying up late to watch those NBC lineups every night.

Spoiler

The cat...reer...is out of the bag.

 

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

11 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Not sure how this tangent got directed at me when I merely remarked on the subjectivity of Sasha's merits as a performer, but there's my response. 

I don't think it's debatable and if you don't agree with me then look no further than the March Madness tournaments where others laid out their case for her not being just one of the best female performers but performers.... period.  That's not to say your opinion doesn't matter..  everyone has that right but I haven't seen you write up anything about why you feel she isn't one of the better females so...   

Also,  how is she a "malcontent"?  She has talked about how she feels she deserves better but it's not affecting anyone around her.  She is popular in that locker room. All of the women (minus Alexa) love Sasha Banks. 

[John from Cincinnati]

Just now, Niners Fan in CT said:

I don't think it's debatable and if you don't agree with me then look no further than the March Madness tournaments where others laid out their case for her not being just one of the best female performers but perfomers.... period.  She finished 2nd one year.  That's not to say your opinion doesn't matter..  everyone has that right but I haven't seen you write up anything about why you feel she isn't one of the better females so...   

My values, like Charlotte’s, also aren’t necessarily reflective of what her employer values in a performer. I consider my opinion as immaterial as March Madness results. 

I’m also not sure if you’re asking for my opinion or just drifting off in idle thought.  

[L_W_P]

54 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Hold on a second here.   Put yourself in Sasha's shoes for a second.  I don't know what kind of industry you work in but lets say you've been at a job and you are really good at what you do.  You work your ass off and everyone knows that you are one of the best in the building.  But then you are passed over for a promotion by someone who knows the President of the company.  You'd say "damn,  that wasn't fair" but you'd understand because shit,  that's life.  That happens all the time.  So you continue to work towards that promotion but now you are passed over by someone who clearly isn't even in your league.  Now you really start wondering "motherfucker,  when am I going to get some credit around here?"  

So you might have a couple options.  Maybe you stay quiet and still hope to get recognition.  Maybe you voice your displeasure or start campaigning harder.  Or maybe you leave the company altogether.  You have some options.  

Sasha Banks does not work in an industry with viable options.  Even if you are shit on at work,  you're probably not going to leave a $20+/hr job for a $10/hr job.  That's not financially possible. You have a family.   There is no other place for Sasha to go.  So all she can do is work very hard,  which she does,  she works extremely hard at her job and the only other thing she can do is campaign for a better spot. Maybe not you specifically but definitely other people are calling that a "bad attitude".   I don't believe it's a bad attitude at all,  it's being competitive and it's also try to get what you deserve. She deserves the promotion more than pretty much anyone else around and everyone knows that she is one of the best female performers they've ever had,  it's not a secret.  So no,  I do not fault her at all.  

I dont disagree on her being deserving of a promotion based on talent but lets not try to compare pro wrestling (a business where success and failure are a hugely subjective criteria) with the every day working person.

To try and make my point as clear as possible - Sasha isn't the first, and wont be the last, potential megastar to be done over by the system. Most of those people are still able to put on the brave face, get out there and do the job, while we have joked about Sasha's "job" face on this board a number of times.

What I see with Sasha (and again, this is just all my observation) is that if she isn't booked as the top star of the division she isnt happy. My solution to this would be 1 of 2 things -

Suck it up, get on with your WWE career and accept that you are going to move up and down the card over the journey. This is a hard thing to do if you feel miserable with the direction your employer is taking every time their is a downward swing.

OR

Leave & go be that big fish in a smaller pond. Maybe this is what she needs? TO either appreciate that even being in the midcard for the WWE is a great spot or to feed that part of her ego that needs to be the biggest star of the division.

Im not saying her feelings aren't justified. Swap her and Bayley with Alexa and Nia over the last 12 months and I think we get a much better program BUT my frustration with Sasha is that she, more than anyone I can remember outside of Punk and his 'part timers' rant, vocalizes how upset she is with her spot without seemingly doing anything to help solve her own problem.

I cant really explain it any more than that so I'm just going to leave it there

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

aren’t necessarily reflective of what her employer values in a performer.

[John from Cincinnati]

6 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Also,  how is she a "malcontent"?  She has talked about how she feels she deserves better but it's not affecting anyone around her.  She is popular in that locker room. All of the women (minus Alexa) love Sasha Banks. 

I apologize for not addresing this bit. I assume I missed the edit.

Finding wry ways to throw your coworkers under the bus in public is being a malcontent in my book. Your mileage may vary. 

[John from Cincinnati]

2 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

You made claims about the talent of the people passing her over professionally. Discussing that isn’t bait for anything other than continued discussion. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm going off topic here but I was thinking how WWE creative vs. the fans has become the biggest issue facing all of the talent. It can be argued that the fans "whining" about Daniel Bryan led to him becoming a much bigger star and it gave us a great WrestleMania journey.  But it also fucked up things for Roman and on down the line.  Roman Reigns was probably the most over guy other than Bryan at the time.  But because he is the Vince guy slotted above Bryan...  that ends up ruining his momentum and it kind of caused this entire 4-year run of ups and downs. 

If the fans had just left the Batista/Orton thing alone,  then Roman Reigns would have been the guy to unseat one of them and I think it would have been received well.  I think this past four years would have been a lot better viewing than Bryan giving us that moment and then he goes out injured and now Roman is damaged. 

The best thing for fans to do for Becky might be to boo her even if WWE creative did a horribly dumb thing by turning her. Because if they don't boo Becky,  Charlotte is on her way to becoming the female Reigns. WWE creative is going to push Charlotte no matter what and if it's not accepted they will try harder and harder. 

I blame WWE for all this because creative sucks but I think in a way fans are making things worse too. 

[odessasteps]

I said the other day that I think fan entitlement in all forms of modern popular culture has been an issue for at least a decade, be it wresting fans or comics readers or TV viewers. The old man in me wants to blame it in on millenial culture, but it prob goes back at least to Gen Xers (my generation) and the start of the mass internet era. 

[FlaeBlazer]

Alexa strikes back.

[Casey]

Subtweeting is pretty childish though.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Like I would to make a New Jack/Hulk Hogan match a possibility, I'd pay a lot of "fuck you" money for a Sasha/Alexa death match.

[Burgundy LaRue]

Sasha has been in WWE long enough to know how backstage politics work. I can understand  her being frustrated for feeling someone like Alexa gets chances she doesn't. But she also undersells what Alexa brings to the table: strong character work, one of the company's better promos, her own large fanbase. Again, Sasha has been around long enough to know WWE values that more than being a 5-star in-ring worker.

There are ways to voice displeasure without being petty. Recently, Ronda Rousey posted a photo of her and the other MMA Horsewomen. Naomi replied: "Squad goals. Do you need a fifth member? I'll be in catering next to the cookies." Naomi voiced her frustration of not being on TV. But she didn't take a swipe at anyone. Then again, Naomi is widely known as being one of the nicest people backstage and seemingly gets along with everyone.

In Sasha's mind, what she's saying about Alexa isn't bad. And it really isn't. But how it's perceived by the powers that be is the sticking point. Not to mention it creates a bad vibe in the locker room. The only person Sasha is really hurting here is herself. They're not going to stop pushing Alexa for Sasha's benefit.

Sasha has been mishandled, but she's had it a lot better than most women in WWE. Again, using Naomi as an example, who had to keep presenting her Feel the Glow gimmick for over a year before they finally said she could do it. Naomi, who got her start on the main roster as a booty-shaking cheerleader for Brodus Clay despite having been good enough to be FCW women's champ. They gave Natalya a farting gimmick, for crying out loud. Therapy session or flatulence on live TV, pick your poison.

I don't think Sasha is a terrible person. But she's romanticized how she thinks her career should be without taking WWE's reality in account. It's annoying for her, I get that. But that's no excuse for being snide toward Alexa or misguided but well-meaning fans. She's making good money with the chance to make more via commercials and non-wrestling appearances. She gets tons of merch. She's seen as pretty important and is in better position than any woman on the roster outside Ronda, Alexa, or Charlotte. Strive for better, but don't undermine yourself along the way would be my advice.