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The Natural

AUGUST 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

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25 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I swear I heard Miz or Bryan talk about that moment in an interview. Maybe it was one of Bryan's interviews shortly after he returned, but one of them definitely talked about how Miz was pissed, he was going to let loose on the mic and vent his frustrations, and Bryan was warned in advance that no offense was meant.

I'm not imagining that an interview where that was discussed happened, right?

Nope, that story’s definitely been out there before.

Talking Smack was the best thing we’ve ever gotten from the network.

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3 hours ago, Craig H said:

If they're so fucking shook over competition, maybe, oh, I don't know, PUT ON BETTER SHOWS?!? No, clearly the answer is to keep the writing and creative as shitty as humanly possible, but just use the gravitational pull of WWE to pull in anyone worth a shit to waste them too. 

Competition wouldn't even fucking matter if Raw were consistently good, if SDL were consistently good, and if the PPVs meant anything. Instead, SDL is barely watchable most weeks, 30 minutes of Raw is all that's watchable out of 3 fucking hours, and all of the PPVs suck.

The funny part is Vince could leave Cody, Omega, Pentagon, Fenix, and basically every other indy name out there alone, and it wouldn't change a thing because no indy promotion going will be able to challenge the WWE's stranglehold on the business for at least a decade or four.  Vince has managed to build his promotion into a global success with so many diverse revenue streams that he could quit putting on wrasslin' shows tomorrow and remain very profitable.  At the same time, Vince has managed to lower the profile of wrestling to that of a low-rent niche product, created a monopoly with so many barriers to competition that it will probably be a couple decades before anyone gets large enough to challenge his dominance in North America, and seemingly gotten lazy about the core product since there's no fear the company will stop make money or lose viewers to a competitor with a better in-ring product.

In a sense, he's making money ruining the business.  I have no idea if I'm supposed to applaud his success or boo him for it.

I am mildly curious to see what they would do with Penta - ie, what stupid way they find to ruin his gimmick.  I assume happy-go-lucky  Penta.... uh, I mean  .. Trapezoid.... who dresses In bright colors and just wants to entertain the WWE Universe is about to come to a NXT house show near you.

 

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56 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Technically should put this in the Book thread but though folks might find it interesting

This is the book

51kADFMpqzL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Creating-Mania-Inside-WrestleMania-Comes/dp/1770414509/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533835736&sr=8-1&keywords=creating+the+mania

I really wish we still had Talking Smack. That did so much for people's characters.

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4 hours ago, nofuture said:

Coachman misses Raw every once in a while to do a show on the Golf Channel so I don't think he's gone.

Coach wrote that it is indeed a Golf Channel commitment

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On 8/8/2018 at 12:36 AM, Craig H said:

How man of you got into wrestling as kids and how many of you got into wrestling in your teens. And by kids, I mean mainly pre-10. For another example, I recall getting heavily into wrestling when I was 5. I have no idea how or why, but it almost makes me think it was wired in my DNA.

I got into it at age 10 actually. I can remember the first wrestling I actually saw. One of the first times I was left home alone and I flipped past WCW Saturday Night and saw The Giant and I was hooked for some reason. I watched the rest of the show, found out when other wrestling was on and it was all over from there.

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I moved the Punk/Cabana stuff to its own thread because 9 times out of 10 eventually people lose their mind

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6 hours ago, Craig H said:

If they're so fucking shook over competition, maybe, oh, I don't know, PUT ON BETTER SHOWS?!? No, clearly the answer is to keep the writing and creative as shitty as humanly possible, but just use the gravitational pull of WWE to pull in anyone worth a shit to waste them too. 

Competition wouldn't even fucking matter if Raw were consistently good, if SDL were consistently good, and if the PPVs meant anything. Instead, SDL is barely watchable most weeks, 30 minutes of Raw is all that's watchable out of 3 fucking hours, and all of the PPVs suck.

Throwing money around to sign wrestlers foreign or domestic who have a bit of buzz going on and adding multiple new shows and divisions while putting on an increasingly bad product with ever-worsening storylines amid tanking ratings....I swear another wrestling company did that at some point. 

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I'm curious as to what people think are still plausible catalysts that see the WWE no longer the biggest promotion in the world in the near future?

Vince dying/going off doing his thing with the XFL isn't going to cause any effect, as his money and company money seem completely separate. Although shit, I'd be really intrigued by a McMahon civil war, that sees Vince pushed out by Steph/HHH and starting his own company (or just being the head of a promotion funded by....Ebersol or a network or something), just for seeing which of the rusted on stay where they are or go with Vince out of loyalty. Imagine if it was Trump's next big gig post-Presidency? 

Another promotion started by...Amazon/Google/Facebook/Netflix/whoever would be interesting - whether there's the current free agents there to make it work is questionable, but the exposure those platforms have certainly give it weight.

Legislative changes I feel like they could survive. If their contractor definition no longer holds weight, I feel like they'd survive the financial ramifications (although the possibility of them being too smart for their own good, and allowing their contractors to work the occasional PROGRESS or ROH show remains). Even a concussion class action lawsuit probably doesn't threaten their bottom line enough, but does it make their product completely unviable if most bumps are now considered CTE risks, or a need to wear protective gear takes away the polish from the product? 

Unionizing? If anything, I feel like with a greater need to represent minorities greater, and better care of employees, you see more people stick around. Winning an Emmy could have interesting ramifications with SAG membership I guess?

Could they ever do an angle so tasteless or insensitive that gets them kicked off TV Roseanne Barr style? Unlikely. FOX would be there for the long haul no matter what.

Steroid trial mkIII? Even if they jailed a bunch of guys for conspiracy, trafficking, whatever - there'd still be enough to push on?

Going to war with UFC? Seems unlikely, and about an even money chance the WWE win that anyway. 

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Not a bad taste angle, but I bet a horrific accident could hurt their popularity, at least in the short term. Imagine a big live Mania preview on big Fox and someone like DB or Bayley or Sasha has a dive or bump go wrong and they end up paralyzed or even killed. 

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I'm still baffled by the WWE's niche popularity contrasting with the money that it's making in rights fees, and I have to think that the coming correction in what networks will pay for just any type of live television will be enough to cause them to at least go into a concerted period of cost-cutting and talent-cutting. 

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2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Not a bad taste angle, but I bet a horrific accident could hurt their popularity, at least in the short term. Imagine a big live Mania preview on big Fox and someone like DB or Bayley or Sasha has a dive or bump go wrong and they end up paralyzed or even killed. 

That might do it. People will bring Owen up, but that wasn't aired, and it also wasn't in the era of smartphones. There's no way any shred of that is handled the same way today as it was in 99

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2 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Could they ever do an angle so tasteless or insensitive that gets them kicked off TV Roseanne Barr style? Unlikely. FOX would be there for the long haul no matter what.

Compared to the angles Fox News runs?  Unlikely.

Maybe Vince can invite Sean Hannity to the Performance Center to teach the kids how to heel it up.

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8 minutes ago, Player One said:

Compared to the angles Fox News runs?  Unlikely.

Maybe Vince can invite Sean Hannity to the Performance Center to teach the kids how to heel it up.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. Hannity is a clean cut babyface in that territory. 

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Most networks want something they consider live sports content, as I understand it. Despite the cries of declining ratings, that means little anymore. 95% of all TV ratings are down. It's 18-49 demo rankings that matter, and Raw/SDL are consistently in the Top 5 for their respective nights every week. Besides, Raw keeps USA on top of cable numbers even bringing in 'only' 3 million or so viewers weekly. 

WWE got hosed a bit in their 2013/2014 TV negotiations; they corrected that this time. Having FOX come in to compete helped massively. Vince has built WWE to be very steady. Only a massive controversy will cause a ripple at this point. Someone dying or being gravely injured would do damage, certainly.

Who is the next Ted Turner to throw a few hundred million at a wrestling promotion? I don't see that person coming down the road anytime soon. Impact makes no revenue on POP. Sinclair has the money, but use ROH as cheap syndication programming and nothing more. They have to depend on New Japan/Bullet Club enough as it is, anyway. Maybe a Netflix or Amazon Prime takes up wrestling, but it would be a while before they would be in position to fully compete with WWE, and WWE would still have the advantage of being on broadcast TV and basic cable.

The SAG angle is interesting, but likely won't come up unless they really win an Emmy. That seems a ways off.

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My daily reminder that I fucking hate people:

 

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Genuine possibility that network TV goes the way of wireless radio in the next 5 years - and even if there's not the same fuck money on offer in 2024, if anything it probably increases value in the Network, given that's probably the next port of call for WWE programming, so whilst some income is lost, they're still far more insulated than most entertainment avenues (NBA, NFL, NHL, UFC the probable exceptions).

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13 hours ago, Player One said:

I am mildly curious to see what they would do with Penta 

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18 hours ago, hammerva said:

So either our national nightmare is over and Coach is gone (even temporarily) from RAW or they are trying to reenact the baseball announcers scene in the Naked Gun movies (2 I think) and just have as many as possible 

 

 

 

I like Renee Young and no fucking Coachman!

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17 hours ago, Craig H said:

If they're so fucking shook over competition, maybe, oh, I don't know, PUT ON BETTER SHOWS?!? No, clearly the answer is to keep the writing and creative as shitty as humanly possible, but just use the gravitational pull of WWE to pull in anyone worth a shit to waste them too. 

Competition wouldn't even fucking matter if Raw were consistently good, if SDL were consistently good, and if the PPVs meant anything. Instead, SDL is barely watchable most weeks, 30 minutes of Raw is all that's watchable out of 3 fucking hours, and all of the PPVs suck.

Fucking this.

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15 hours ago, Craig H said:

I swear I heard Miz or Bryan talk about that moment in an interview. Maybe it was one of Bryan's interviews shortly after he returned, but one of them definitely talked about how Miz was pissed, he was going to let loose on the mic and vent his frustrations, and Bryan was warned in advance that no offense was meant.

I'm not imagining that an interview where that was discussed happened, right?

You remember correctly. I posted that interview before, here it is:

 

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1 minute ago, The Natural said:

You remember correctly. I posted that interview before, here it is:

 

Mandatory:

 

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13 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

I'm curious as to what people think are still plausible catalysts that see the WWE no longer the biggest promotion in the world in the near future?

Vince dying/going off doing his thing with the XFL isn't going to cause any effect, as his money and company money seem completely separate. Although shit, I'd be really intrigued by a McMahon civil war, that sees Vince pushed out by Steph/HHH and starting his own company (or just being the head of a promotion funded by....Ebersol or a network or something), just for seeing which of the rusted on stay where they are or go with Vince out of loyalty. Imagine if it was Trump's next big gig post-Presidency? 

Another promotion started by...Amazon/Google/Facebook/Netflix/whoever would be interesting - whether there's the current free agents there to make it work is questionable, but the exposure those platforms have certainly give it weight.

Legislative changes I feel like they could survive. If their contractor definition no longer holds weight, I feel like they'd survive the financial ramifications (although the possibility of them being too smart for their own good, and allowing their contractors to work the occasional PROGRESS or ROH show remains). Even a concussion class action lawsuit probably doesn't threaten their bottom line enough, but does it make their product completely unviable if most bumps are now considered CTE risks, or a need to wear protective gear takes away the polish from the product? 

Unionizing? If anything, I feel like with a greater need to represent minorities greater, and better care of employees, you see more people stick around. Winning an Emmy could have interesting ramifications with SAG membership I guess?

Could they ever do an angle so tasteless or insensitive that gets them kicked off TV Roseanne Barr style? Unlikely. FOX would be there for the long haul no matter what.

Steroid trial mkIII? Even if they jailed a bunch of guys for conspiracy, trafficking, whatever - there'd still be enough to push on?

Going to war with UFC? Seems unlikely, and about an even money chance the WWE win that anyway. 

Vince dying or leaving would bring me back. 

If the independent contractor definition were overturned in court and they had to provide benefits to all wrestlers, that wouldn't sink them, sure.  But it might slow their hiring since hiring new people becomes much more expensive than it used to be. 

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I still think people under estimate how much Vince's death will be the biggest challenge the WWE faces.

Remember - Wall Street is stupid. These are the same people who thought Vince actually died in the limo and that he actually sold the company to Trump.

They can do all they can to try and convince the money marks that everything is fine with Steph and HHH.

The company will take a serious hit.

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I'm actually thinking that the big push to highlight all the branding stuff Steph's been doing, along with the Developmental and expansion stuff Trip's been doing, Evolution, and theVince's XFL reboot is to shuffle Vince out of the picture and set everyone up for when the Levesque's take over so that hit doesn't happen.  Even the big article that outright said that Steph and Paul were the one that got the multi-billion dollar TV deals done and Vince wasn't even in the room when it happened seems to be pointing to that.  The family are nuts, but they're not idiots.

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