AUGUST 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

[Victator]

4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

 

How did things like that get recorded? I saw a 1964 Tonight Show was discovered recently and I wonder how it was recorded. Unless a station manager recorded it like one intrepid soul who saved the first Super Bowl. 

[PetrolCB]

35 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

  Hide contents

Jerry mentions his sister in the Chinese Restaurant episode. She's never mentioned again. After Jerry takes away Kramer's keys to Jerry's apartment, Kramer takes off to LA, as we found out from Newman, but before that Jerry calls Kramer's mother to see if she knows where he is. Then, in "The Switch", Kramer initially says he can't help George, eventhough his mother is a matron because he hasn't spoken to his mother in five years.

BTW, I know a little something about the kind of reaction everyone has when they find out Kramer's name is Cosmo. In fact, I've been getting asked if I watch Seinfeld since about 1995 when they divulged Kramer's name. 

Yes, I just divulged my secret to my Seinfeld DVDVR brethren.

 

 

 

I remember when that episode aired. It was such a big deal. Nobody asks when I started watching, they just assume forever, since I know so much about nothing. But I pretty much watched it from season 3 and on. I dunno why, but my mom had no problem with me staying up late to watch those NBC lineups every night.

[John from Cincinnati]

15 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Charlotte said herself that Sasha is better

I don't think Charlotte's rubber stamp has anything to do with what Sasha's employer values in his performers.

Quote

There are others who are not in Sasha's league and have been given more opportunities than her,  I'm not getting into that again because that's not the main point of this discussion. Whether you believe it or don't believe...   she believes it and I have no issue with her voicing an opinion.  

I think it's funny because when athletes don't voice their opinion then everyone says "what a shithead,  I want to hear what he REALLY thinks.."   and then when an athlete does say how they feel they get shit on for that too.  It's a no win.  

I have no problem with her voicing her opinion. She's welcome to conduct herself however she chooses. If a consequence of that is people realizing what a disruptive, unpleasant malcontent she is, so be it.

Lots of my favourite performers are disruptive, unpleasant malcontents. I'm happy I don't have to spend any time interacting with them in a professional context. Beyond that, I have no problem seeing them as they are and still liking them if my enjoyment of their work outweighs their clear foibles. 

Not sure how this tangent got directed at me when I merely remarked on the subjectivity of Sasha's merits as a performer, but there's my response. 

[PetrolCB]

4 minutes ago, Victator said:

How did things like that get recorded? I saw a 1964 Tonight Show was discovered recently and I wonder how it was recorded. Unless a station manager recorded it like one intrepid soul who saved the first Super Bowl. 

Either a copy of the master tape, or like Bing Crosby’s complete copy of Game 7 from the 1960 World Series, the television was filmed with a high quality reel-to-reel camera. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

6 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I remember when that episode aired. It was such a big deal. Nobody asks when I started watching, they just assume forever, since I know so much about nothing. But I pretty much watched it from season 3 and on. I dunno why, but my mom had no problem with me staying up late to watch those NBC lineups every night.

Spoiler

The cat...reer...is out of the bag.

 

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

11 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Not sure how this tangent got directed at me when I merely remarked on the subjectivity of Sasha's merits as a performer, but there's my response. 

I don't think it's debatable and if you don't agree with me then look no further than the March Madness tournaments where others laid out their case for her not being just one of the best female performers but performers.... period.  That's not to say your opinion doesn't matter..  everyone has that right but I haven't seen you write up anything about why you feel she isn't one of the better females so...   

Also,  how is she a "malcontent"?  She has talked about how she feels she deserves better but it's not affecting anyone around her.  She is popular in that locker room. All of the women (minus Alexa) love Sasha Banks. 

[John from Cincinnati]

Just now, Niners Fan in CT said:

I don't think it's debatable and if you don't agree with me then look no further than the March Madness tournaments where others laid out their case for her not being just one of the best female performers but perfomers.... period.  She finished 2nd one year.  That's not to say your opinion doesn't matter..  everyone has that right but I haven't seen you write up anything about why you feel she isn't one of the better females so...   

My values, like Charlotte’s, also aren’t necessarily reflective of what her employer values in a performer. I consider my opinion as immaterial as March Madness results. 

I’m also not sure if you’re asking for my opinion or just drifting off in idle thought.  

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

aren’t necessarily reflective of what her employer values in a performer.

[John from Cincinnati]

6 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Also,  how is she a "malcontent"?  She has talked about how she feels she deserves better but it's not affecting anyone around her.  She is popular in that locker room. All of the women (minus Alexa) love Sasha Banks. 

I apologize for not addresing this bit. I assume I missed the edit.

Finding wry ways to throw your coworkers under the bus in public is being a malcontent in my book. Your mileage may vary. 

[John from Cincinnati]

2 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

You made claims about the talent of the people passing her over professionally. Discussing that isn’t bait for anything other than continued discussion. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm going off topic here but I was thinking how WWE creative vs. the fans has become the biggest issue facing all of the talent. It can be argued that the fans "whining" about Daniel Bryan led to him becoming a much bigger star and it gave us a great WrestleMania journey.  But it also fucked up things for Roman and on down the line.  Roman Reigns was probably the most over guy other than Bryan at the time.  But because he is the Vince guy slotted above Bryan...  that ends up ruining his momentum and it kind of caused this entire 4-year run of ups and downs. 

If the fans had just left the Batista/Orton thing alone,  then Roman Reigns would have been the guy to unseat one of them and I think it would have been received well.  I think this past four years would have been a lot better viewing than Bryan giving us that moment and then he goes out injured and now Roman is damaged. 

The best thing for fans to do for Becky might be to boo her even if WWE creative did a horribly dumb thing by turning her. Because if they don't boo Becky,  Charlotte is on her way to becoming the female Reigns. WWE creative is going to push Charlotte no matter what and if it's not accepted they will try harder and harder. 

I blame WWE for all this because creative sucks but I think in a way fans are making things worse too. 

[odessasteps]

I said the other day that I think fan entitlement in all forms of modern popular culture has been an issue for at least a decade, be it wresting fans or comics readers or TV viewers. The old man in me wants to blame it in on millenial culture, but it prob goes back at least to Gen Xers (my generation) and the start of the mass internet era. 

[FlaeBlazer]

Alexa strikes back.

[Casey]

Subtweeting is pretty childish though.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Like I would to make a New Jack/Hulk Hogan match a possibility, I'd pay a lot of "fuck you" money for a Sasha/Alexa death match.

[Burgundy LaRue]

Sasha has been in WWE long enough to know how backstage politics work. I can understand  her being frustrated for feeling someone like Alexa gets chances she doesn't. But she also undersells what Alexa brings to the table: strong character work, one of the company's better promos, her own large fanbase. Again, Sasha has been around long enough to know WWE values that more than being a 5-star in-ring worker.

There are ways to voice displeasure without being petty. Recently, Ronda Rousey posted a photo of her and the other MMA Horsewomen. Naomi replied: "Squad goals. Do you need a fifth member? I'll be in catering next to the cookies." Naomi voiced her frustration of not being on TV. But she didn't take a swipe at anyone. Then again, Naomi is widely known as being one of the nicest people backstage and seemingly gets along with everyone.

In Sasha's mind, what she's saying about Alexa isn't bad. And it really isn't. But how it's perceived by the powers that be is the sticking point. Not to mention it creates a bad vibe in the locker room. The only person Sasha is really hurting here is herself. They're not going to stop pushing Alexa for Sasha's benefit.

Sasha has been mishandled, but she's had it a lot better than most women in WWE. Again, using Naomi as an example, who had to keep presenting her Feel the Glow gimmick for over a year before they finally said she could do it. Naomi, who got her start on the main roster as a booty-shaking cheerleader for Brodus Clay despite having been good enough to be FCW women's champ. They gave Natalya a farting gimmick, for crying out loud. Therapy session or flatulence on live TV, pick your poison.

I don't think Sasha is a terrible person. But she's romanticized how she thinks her career should be without taking WWE's reality in account. It's annoying for her, I get that. But that's no excuse for being snide toward Alexa or misguided but well-meaning fans. She's making good money with the chance to make more via commercials and non-wrestling appearances. She gets tons of merch. She's seen as pretty important and is in better position than any woman on the roster outside Ronda, Alexa, or Charlotte. Strive for better, but don't undermine yourself along the way would be my advice.

[SirSmUgly]

Real talk is that Sasha should recognize what business that she is in and what company that she's working for and know that she has a clear ceiling as a) a black person and b) a woman. Yeah, it's frustrating, but that's the business and the company that you work for. 

And no, beefing with the blonde white chick who they elevated over you is not going to help your career options, so maybe she should cool it or leave the company and do something else. 

[OSJ]

17 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Real talk is that Sasha should recognize what business that she is in and what company that she's working for and know that she has a clear ceiling as a) a black person and b) a woman. Yeah, it's frustrating, but that's the business and the company that you work for. 

And no, beefing with the blonde white chick who they elevated over you is not going to help your career options, so maybe she should cool it or leave the company and do something else. 

My friend, I couldn't disagree more... How did that ceiling that you speak of work out for Rocky Johnson's kid, what was his name? Oh yeah, Dwayne...

b. Is a far more telling point than (a.), it's much better now than it was even ten years ago, but VKM's obsession with large-breasted blondes hasn't changed much, nor will it while he's still kicking. Only now (after a decade of the so-called women's revolution) are we seeing a women's PPV.  The utter ruination of both Asuka and Ronda shows me that Kevin Dunn and VKM still have their disgustingly moist palms all over everything. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

33 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Not to mention it creates a bad vibe in the locker room.

It doesn't though according to social media.  Sasha is the one in the locker room who is friends with everyone.  Naomi, Nattie, Bayley, Tamina, New Day, Dana, Titus, Seth, AJ, Apollo, Tozawa, Sheamus, Dash, Dawson, Liv Morgan, Kalisto...   she is friends with all of these people, her and Mikaze's house is a chill spot. 

Alexa is one where you don't see her chillin with many people. This idea that Sasha is a locker room troublemaker isn't true.   It's literally only Alexa she has an issue with. 

[SirSmUgly]

9 minutes ago, OSJ said:

My friend, I couldn't disagree more... How did that ceiling that you speak of work out for Rocky Johnson's kid, what was his name? Oh yeah, Dwayne...

b. Is a far more telling point than (a.), it's much better know than it was even ten years ago, but VKM's obsession with large-breasted blondes hasn't changed much, nor will it while he's still kicking. Only now (after a decade of the so-called women's revolution) are we seeing a women's PPV.  The utter ruination of both Asuka and Ronda shows me that Kevin Dunn and VKM still have their disgustingly moist palms all over everything. 

I knew someone would mention The Rock, but he doesn't even identify as black. He identifies as Samoan. There's a bit easier road to the top for Samoans in the company, for whatever reasons there are.

But even giving you The Rock, whom people might consider to be black because of his father even though he prefers not to identify in that manner, he's it. They gave Booker T and Mark Henry runs with the secondary world titles when there were two titles, but this isn't a company that's going to elevate black people or, outside of people of Polynesian or Indian descent, Asian people. 

...and that's before I get into the years of, and I'm being nice here, racially-insensitive gimmicks and angles that this company loves to run. The New Day is a great example of this before the guys in the group took hold of their own gimmick and undercut the minstrelsy of the whole thing by being very self-aware of it and lampooning it via exaggeration and also by bringing in elements that people don't identify traditionally with black wrestlers (like nerding out by playing the Final Fantasy victory theme on a trombone). 

And even with how over they got and have (evidently) remained, the company hasn't even tried to push one of the group as a potential company  centerpiece. 

This is why, with all due respect to you sir, I don't find any argument that hinges on "They elevated The Rock" as strong counter-evidence about how the company feels about race. I won't belabor the evidence in favor of my point. 

I also think that Sasha, as an "unconventional beauty" (read: not blonde and white) has it rough. This is probably a part of why apparently Becky Lynch can't get pushed commensurate with her overness and her work (I'm taking this from what I've read here; I admittedly don't watch the shows anymore). 

I almost didn't type that post because mentioning race and gender causes posting of the sort that we've had already in this thread, but it's so obviously a thing that matters when talking about Sasha's push and also some of her bitterness toward Alexa that I decided to mention it. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Previously on /r/DeathValleyDriver.....

[evilwaldo]

The reason why The Rock had it easier is due to the Anoa'i family background, which opens doors.  Generational wrestlers have an easier time getting in the door with Vince.  If you are a generational wrestler and your father or grandfather worked with Vince, his father, or grandfather the door is wide open.  

 

I think Sasha is doing a great job of working the marks with her new gimmick.

[Brian Fowler]

What the hell happened in here tonight?

[Bustronaut]

Reddit

[cwoy2j]

7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm going off topic here but I was thinking how WWE creative vs. the fans has become the biggest issue facing all of the talent. It can be argued that the fans "whining" about Daniel Bryan led to him becoming a much bigger star and it gave us a great WrestleMania journey.  But it also fucked up things for Roman and on down the line.  Roman Reigns was probably the most over guy other than Bryan at the time.  But because he is the Vince guy slotted above Bryan...  that ends up ruining his momentum and it kind of caused this entire 4-year run of ups and downs. 

If the fans had just left the Batista/Orton thing alone,  then Roman Reigns would have been the guy to unseat one of them and I think it would have been received well.  I think this past four years would have been a lot better viewing than Bryan giving us that moment and then he goes out injured and now Roman is damaged. 

The best thing for fans to do for Becky might be to boo her even if WWE creative did a horribly dumb thing by turning her. Because if they don't boo Becky,  Charlotte is on her way to becoming the female Reigns. WWE creative is going to push Charlotte no matter what and if it's not accepted they will try harder and harder. 

I blame WWE for all this because creative sucks but I think in a way fans are making things worse too. 

I wish I could remember which Austin podcast it was but he had a really great monologue where he talked about how the WWE has made the promotion itself a heel due to all of the heel authority figures. He contrasted that with how Bill Watts played an authority figure. He basically just ran down matches and was there to ensure everyone, heel or face got a fair shake. They never blathered on about who the "face of the company" was and all of that.