WWE EVOLUTION (All Women's PPV) - 10/28/2018

[Niners Fan in CT]

Call a spade a spade. What do Charlotte, Alexa and Carmella all have in common.  I didn't love the Charlotte push either but at least she was putting on quality matches.  Yes, Alexa is strong on the microphone,  I'm someone who predicted when Alexa was drafted that she could be the next Trish Stratus.  I'm not an Alexa hater,  I just don't think she has done well on top.  I don't feel she has improved in the ring.  

Vince is stuck in the 1950s or some shit where he thinks the champion of the division needs to be what he thinks they should look like,  Blondes.  

He doesn't realize that Sasha could be a crossover star,   that Ember Moon could be a big star or Ruby Riott..   he doesn't fucking get it.  

 

[Raziel]

You're tilting at windmills yelling that Vince doesn't get it and expecting that to change before he dies.

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 minute ago, Raziel said:

You're tilting at windmills yelling that Vince doesn't get it and expecting that to change before he dies.

The entire division suffers because of these Vince projects;  same as the men.  So in that way the women are equal to the men.  They are booked just as horribly. 

[John from Cincinnati]

2 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Call a spade a spade. What do Charlotte, Alexa and Carmella all have in common.  I didn't love the Charlotte push either but at least she was putting on quality matches.  Yes, Alexa is strong on the microphone,  I'm someone who predicted when Alexa was drafted that she could be the next Trish Stratus.  I'm not an Alexa hater,  I just don't think she has done well on top.  I don't feel she has improved in the ring.  

Vince is stuck in the 1950s or some shit where he thinks the champion of the division needs to be what he thinks they should look like,  Blondes.  

I don’t really agree with any of this. But I can’t find a better way to explain away Natty of all people being champion for 87 days. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Just now, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I don’t really agree with any of this. 

Of course you don't. Forget Alexa,  talk about Smackdown.  Talk about Carmella and Asuka.  Is any of that good?  

[Burgundy LaRue]

Tyson Kidd nearly died and WWE screwed up in not taking him to the hospital. That Natalya run was a "please don't sue us" gesture.

[John from Cincinnati]

Just now, Niners Fan in CT said:

Of course you don't. Forget Alexa,  talk about Smackdown.  Talk about Carmella and Asuka.  Is any of that good?  

I look at Naomi’s run as champion and how many big matches Sasha has had and Nia’s push this year and I have no buy in for your overarching theory about blondes. 

[DreamBroken]

1. Alexa Bliss vs. Sasha Banks (RAW, 8/28/17)
2. Alexa Bliss vs. Asuka (RAW, 1/1/18)
3. Alexa Bliss vs. Sasha Banks (SummerSlam 2017)
4. Alexa Bliss vs. Charlotte (Survivor Series 2017)
5. Alexa Bliss vs. Sasha Banks (Great Balls of Fire 2017)

[Raziel]

8 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I look at Naomi’s run as champion and how many big matches Sasha has had and Nia’s push this year and I have no buy in for your overarching theory about blondes. 

A cursory glance at the Women's Title history, and Vince only pushes Blondes doesn't hold water historically, let alone recently.

[Burgundy LaRue]

For all the talk about others having star potential: Naomi is the one they're really missing on. She's gorgeous, has a great personality, her Feel the Glow gimmick is LGBTQ+ friendly and she helped raised money for the Pulse Club victims, so she's already on that wavelength. Her LED belt was made for young girls to put on a holiday wish list. She's greatly improved her in-ring consistency. She can work with the greenest of wrestlers and make the match look presentable. She's the perfect blend of Total Diva and legit athlete. She's even Samoan by marriage, LOL.

A Charlotte-Naomi rivalry would be money and they whiffed on it when Naomi was champion. What a shame.

[Raziel]

Yes, Naomi was the huge miss for WWE.  She got that Mania moment, then they kinda just moved on to something else pretty quick.

[Niners Fan in CT]

12 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I look at Naomi’s run as champion and how many big matches Sasha has had and Nia’s push this year and I have no buy in for your overarching theory about blondes. 

Naomi's run was ended prematurely twice.  Sasha has been put in those big matches because they know she can deliver but has she ever won any of them?  Her title reigns are all less than 30 days.  Nia's "push" was to get Alexa over.  

Add up the combined days of Alexa and Carmella as champion of their respective brands and compare it to everyone else.  I'm throwing Charlotte out of it.  Just add up those two. 

Also, really?  No history of pushing blondes?  Trish was a seven time champion.  She dominated the Attitude Era and the years following and Torrie Wilson had more screen time than most wrestlers.  

Michelle McCool dominated the "divas" division.  So for anyone to say Vince doesn't have a preference....  nah

[Niners Fan in CT]

4 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Yes, Naomi was the huge miss for WWE.  She got that Mania moment, then they kinda just moved on to something else pretty quick.

That was her Ryder "you've been here a while,  good job" veteran run.  

[Raziel]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Naomi's run was ended prematurely twice.  Sasha has been put in those big matches because they know she can deliver but has she ever won any of them?  Her title reigns are all less than 30 days.  Nia's "push" was to get Alexa over.  

Add up the combined days of Alexa and Carmella as champion of their respective brands and compare it to everyone else.  I'm throwing Charlotte out of it.  Just add up those two. 

Also, really?  No history of pushing blondes?  Trish was a seven time champion.  She dominated the Attitude Era and the years following and Torrie Wilson had more screen time than most wrestlers.  

Michelle McCool dominated the "divas" division.  So for anyone to say Vince doesn't have a preference....  nah

 

Top 10 Longest Reigning Champions:

Classic Women's Title: Moolah (Red), Trish (Dyed Blone, naturally Burnette), Blayze (Blonde), Rockin' Robin (Brunette), Wendi Richter (Brunette), Sherri (Brunette), Mickie (Brunette), Beth (Blonde), Ivory (Brunette), Molly (Brunette)

Diva's: AJ (Brunette), Nikki (Brunette), Maryse (Blonde), Eve (Brunette), McCool (Blonde), Beth (Blonde, Charlotte (Blonde), Kaitlyn (Blonde), Layla (Brunette)

RAW: Alexa (Blonde), Charlotte (Blonde), Sasha (Brunette/Purple), Bayley (Brunette), Nia (Brunette)

SDL: Naomi (Brunette/Green), Charlotte (Blonde), Alexa (Blonde), Carmella (Blonde), Nattie (Blonde), Becky (Red/Orange).

 

The only place Blondes bat above .500 is SDL, but don't let actualy numbers get in the way of a shit narrative. 

 

 

 

 

[John from Cincinnati]

He’s pushed plenty of blondes just like he’s pushed plenty of others. AJ and Nikki had strong runs on top of the division. Lita and Mickie and Melina were all featured prominently during the Trish and McCool years. Paige got a strong push when she came in. 

I don’t buy it. You can frame the numbers in what ever way you’d like. Counting Sasha’s days as champion isn’t going to make me pretend she’s not a heavily featured star.

[Raziel]

7 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That was her Ryder "you've been here a while,  good job" veteran run.  

For having a "Good Job" run, she's got the longest combined days of Champion on SDL.  It'll take another 40ish days for Carmella to catch her.

[Niners Fan in CT]

7 minutes ago, Raziel said:

The only place Blondes bat above .500 is SDL, but don't let actualy numbers get in the way of a shit narrative. 

Vince wasn't even owner during the bulk of Moolah's dominance,  she was a Vince Sr. favorite and Vince was good to people that his father had a relationship with. 

It's clear that Vince didn't give a crap about women's wrestling,  it wasn't heavily featured after 1985 and when they did bring it back in the 90s the star of the division was Madussa who is blonde and then it went away again.  

Then guess who became the prominent female performers?  Sunny and Sable.  They brought the title back for Sable so she'd have more of a reason to be on TV. 

Yes,  Lita was a big star and Mickie was pushed..  she was also known as "Piggy James"  while Michelle McCool was booked as the beautiful one.  

AJ was pushed as being "crazy"..  we know from her book what the company truly thought of her.  What was the quote "Who would want to fuck AJ?"  That was the quote from her book. 

It's not a shit narrative,  it's facts.  Start bringing some. 

[Raziel]

I brought actual facts backed by actual numbers, you brought opinions and spin.  How much farther can you throw the goalposts?  

Quote

Yes,  Lita was a big star and Mickie was pushed..  she was also known as "Piggy James"  while Michelle McCool was booked as the beautiful one.

There's something about McCool's bestie, co-champ and partner during that feud that I can't quite put my finger on...

 

 

The Bellas, 2 of the only 3 women in WWE with their own TV show, are both brunette.  You lost this, give up, it's getting embarassing.

[Eivion]

6 hours ago, hammerva said:

Well Carmella shouldn't be the champion by October unless Road Dogg has completely lost his mind at Summerslam.  I think on the RAW side they are fine.  Either Rousey is the champion (very likely) or Alexa is the champion and she is more than qualified.   I don't understand this new hot take that Alexa Bliss is the shits in the ring.   

Its not remotely a new take. Its been around since she was in NXT and never really stopped. She has had some good matches, but she is incredibility inconsistent and most of the time fails to wrestle like she does in her better matches. She isn't terrible, but she isn't good yet either.

2 hours ago, Ace said:

Steph has to take credit for #GiveDivasAChance because there's no fucking way they'll credit it to AJ.

Why the fuck would they give AJ credit for that? She just jumped on the bandwagon. #GiveDivasAChance happened because of NXT's success with women and the Bellas being candid about not understanding why any woman would want to leave NXT at the time and then subsequently being give another 30 second match the next Raw either as punishment or just general booking.

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

19 minutes ago, Raziel said:

I brought actual facts backed by actual numbers, you brought opinions and spin.  How much farther can you throw the goalposts?  

There's something about McCool's bestie, co-champ and partner during that feud that I can't quite put my finger on...

The Bellas, 2 of the only 3 women in WWE with their own TV show, are both brunette.  You lost this, give up, it's getting embarassing.

Whenever someone says "you lost this"..      

What about Sunny being pushed and Sable being pushed and Vince throwing the title away multiple times was "spin"?   Layla was Michelle's sidekick,  Michelle was booked as the star. 

The Bellas were signed in part because they are twins.  They worked hard to get where they are but that was one of the reasons they were initially signed.  

You have Lita,  Nikki Bella..   that isn't much to go on over the course of 25 years.   

Women who have been booked as stars:   Trish,  Torrie,  Sunny, Sable, Alundra, Charlotte Flair,  Alexa Bliss.  Lita and Nikki.  

4 horsewomen.  They pushed Charlotte.   Sasha, Bayley and Becky are way behind.   Recent call-ups.  They push Alexa and Carmella.   Nothing but facts. 

[Overly Critical Man]

Ronda Rousey is only pushed because she's blonde, guys.

[Raziel]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Whenever someone says "you lost this"..      

What about Sunny being pushed and Sable being pushed and Vince throwing the title away multiple times was "spin"?   Layla was Michelle's sidekick,  Michelle was booked as the star. 

The Bellas were signed in part because they are twins.  They worked hard to get where they are but that was one of the reasons they were initially signed.  

You have Lita,  Nikki Bella..   that isn't much to go on over the course of 25 years.   

Women who have been booked as stars:   Trish,  Torrie,  Sunny, Sable, Alundra, Charlotte Flair,  Alexa Bliss.  Lita and Nikki.  

4 horsewomen.  They pushed Charlotte.   Sasha, Bayley and Becky are way behind.   Recent call-ups.  They push Alexa and Carmella.   

More spin.  More opinions.

 

Sunny wasn't a wrestler, never was.  She was eye candy when no title existed, and when one did, she didn't complete. She's irrelevant to this argument.

 

Richter pushed part of the Wrestlemania I co-Main Event, as the Women's match was As important as the Main, due to the Rock N Wrestling Connection.  Also part of that match, Oh yeah, Lelani Kai, who wasn't blonde.

Ivory was the centerpiece of the division for a year after Sable left.  Aside from her 8 day drop to Moolah, her reign outlasts Sable's.  Chyna was pushed HUGE and, um, not blonde.  While Trish was the "star", she was trading the belts with Victoria, Jazz, Gail Kim, Lita, and Molly.  Something they all have in common?  

 

Charlotte and Sasha traded the belt back and forth for 5 friggin months.  Just because you're bitter Charlotte went on and Sasha went into the forgotten pile, you can drop this ridiculous argument.

 

 

[Phantom Lord]

If it were me personally, I would keep the title on Carmella until this PPV. Have her continue to win by hook or crook. At the PPV she has to take on Charlotte or Askua. In a perfect world this show would build to Becky and Charlotte, but this isn't a perfect world. Carmella is so good at getting heat and hate, so her title is the one I'd build around for the main event.

[Niners Fan in CT]

This idea that the company viewed Trish's opponents as equals is preposterous. She traded the title back and forth with various opponents 1.  because that's how WWE books everything and 2. to pump up her number of reigns,  same thing they are doing with Charlotte.  

Sasha never won a PPV match,  never won one of their "historic" FIRSTS...  dropped the title in her hometown,  never held the title for more than 27 days and you think they were pushing her as an equal to Charlotte?   Also,  the "I'm not a Boss anymore" promo.  

I forgot Kelly Kelly.  They pushed her as a star also.  Sunny is not irrelevant to the argument at all.  This is about who the company views as stars. 

But sure we can agree to disagree.

[John from Cincinnati]

39 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Yes,  Lita was a big star and Mickie was pushed..  she was also known as "Piggy James"  while Michelle McCool was booked as the beautiful one.  

AJ was pushed as being "crazy"..  we know from her book what the company truly thought of her.  What was the quote "Who would want to fuck AJ?"  That was the quote from her book. 

As long as we agree that none of these women were blonde, you can carry your goalposts as far down the pitch as you desire.