MITB 2018 POST SHOW THREAD

[Overly Critical Man]

9 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

When did Baron Corbin team up with Braun Strowman.

[Jamal]

 

1 hour ago, Captain Kronos said:

I know that reference. 

Ha! 

[Spritenaut 32]

Now I kinda wish Don Frye had won Money in the Bank.

[Captain Kronos]

1 hour ago, L_W_P said:

And with this statement Vince knew he had broken the IWC forever...

The Backlund v Hogan image is apt. During his title run, Backlund could wrestle rings around Bruno or Hogan. But he's not as entertaining to me as those two guys. (now, Mr. Backlund is lots of fun, but that dude wasn't champ for 5 years)

I draw the line at Billy Graham, who had buckets full of charisma and almost zero ring talent. But in her era, I think Bliss is better in ring than Superstar Graham was in his era. 

I will agree that if you have someone who can do both character and workrate - Lawler, Flair, Savage, Terry, Heel Charlotte, Heel Sasha, etc then you want those people. But my comments arose out of someone suggesting that it should have been Nattie. 

I like Alexa. She entertains me. Maybe one day she won't. Wouldn't be the first time I went off a wrestler. 

Alexa carries herself as a STAR.  Becky and Bayley don't - and to me never did. I adore Becky Lynch. Been a fan since her SHIMMER days. But she does strike me as a better underdog. I want to root for her to win. But when she won before, I was almost immediately "meh" about it. Weird. 

[ReiseReise]

1 hour ago, Captain Kronos said:

Alexa carries herself as a STAR.  Becky and Bayley don't - and to me never did. I adore Becky Lynch. Been a fan since her SHIMMER days. But she does strike me as a better underdog. I want to root for her to win. But when she won before, I was almost immediately "meh" about it. Weird. 

I think you are not wrong, but I think most of it is on the booking. 

Alexa is a stuck up and arrogant heel. One who has a very big mouth and keeps portraying herself as a goddess. She is decent in her role, but I honestly don't see her overperform with what she's been given. This is all subjective, of course. 

She almost never gets proven wrong. She got more landmark victories within a year than Becky and Bayley combined. Even her relatively rare losses came in a meaningful manner. I have to say it reminds me more off HHH when they tried to force them onto the level of Austin and Rock in '99. 

And if we go by who is looking like a star and such, there is no real explanation for putting all involved players in a position were Asuka looks like a choke-artist while Alexa has a ridiculous challenge-to-championship conversion rate. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

15 minutes ago, ReiseReise said:

I think you are not wrong, but I think most of it is on the booking. 

 

That sums up most of WWE's problems really well.

[Just Dave]

20 hours ago, Victator said:

She has three expressions, like a broken CAW in No Mercy or 05 Randy Orton. 

 

WWE already fucked that up with a fake out. But shit Nia tapped out on TV in March and they pretended she had never submitted two months later. 

The writing gets worse the more open the business gets. 

 

It lead to the best work he has done in WWE and a great feud with AJ. 

This is amongst the least accurate things I've ever read here. This new idea that Alexa isn't REALLY good at everything pertaining to this business other than in-ring work is as asinine as the one that went around this board that The New Age Outlaws were never really any good. And there's 40 years of evidence that in ring ability matters less to Vince mcMahon than any other factor a worker is judged on. In fact, there's probably just as much evidence that being a good in ring worker is as likely to hurt you as it is to help you. Alexa's a fantastic heel with really, really good facial expressions. You not liking it doesn't make it less true.

[Victator]

8 minutes ago, just drew said:

Alexa's a fantastic heel with really, really good facial expressions.

Yes three. 

A fantastic heel would get faces over. The only person to come out of an Alexa feud better off than before is Alexa. I don't think she is doing it intentionally. A lot of it is her weird over push and Vince and or Hunter's infatuation with her. But in the end, nobody gets over working with Alexa Bliss. Which puts the lie to her being a great heel. 

And if you go over WWF/WWE history, the champions were good in ring workers. Hulk Hogan and Bruno were way better performers than Backlund could ever be. Hogan, Savage, Undertaker, Bret, Shawn, Austin. They were all great performers. 

So who were the bad wrestlers pushed by WWE as champion. At this point, Cena has proven he is a great wrestler. Batista was in good matches more often than not. 

The only outlier is Warrior. 

[OSJ]

From what I've seen, (and I try not to watch the main roster at all), Alexa has become a sort of mini-me Stephanie McMahon. Hear me out on this; she talks shit about one and all and never, ever gets her comeuppance. Worse, it gets portrayed as though she is actually right most of the time and she's the frigging heel. I've yet to see her in anything approaching a good match, and a big part of that has to do with nonsensical booking that completely ignores the size/strength advantage that most of her opponents have on her. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Bottom line if you are a bad wrestler it's hard for me to care about anything else you are doing and Alexa is pretty bad..  

[Nice Guy Eddie]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Bottom line if you are a bad wrestler it's hard for me to care about anything else you are doing and Alexa is pretty bad..  

Alexa gets a pass because...well look at her. Jinder Mahal and Mojo Rawley get no such pass, nor should they.

[Overly Critical Man]

There's nothing wrong with Alexa's matches. The hyperbole about how "bad" she is seems to correspond with how strongly someone disagrees with her push. I see little difference between her or say...Bayley.

Meanwhile, Carmella needs to get sent back to the PC.

[Rows]

59 minutes ago, just drew said:

This is amongst the least accurate things I've ever read here. This new idea that Alexa isn't REALLY good at everything pertaining to this business other than in-ring work is as asinine as the one that went around this board that The New Age Outlaws were never really any good. And there's 40 years of evidence that in ring ability matters less to Vince mcMahon than any other factor a worker is judged on. In fact, there's probably just as much evidence that being a good in ring worker is as likely to hurt you as it is to help you. Alexa's a fantastic heel with really, really good facial expressions. You not liking it doesn't make it less true.

Its just that simple. They know exactly what'll get hot and judging by RAW they already have something with Alexa/Ronda.

[DreamBroken]

Naomi beat Alexa for the title, beat her for it again, and then successfully defended against her. She's a babyface, who came out better and stronger after feuding with Alexa.

Alexa has had good to very good matches against Asuka, Sasha, Charlotte, Nia, and I liked the Becky series... basically everyone she wrestles with a few exceptions. Was also in that excellent 4 way last week. No idea where she's bad in the ring comes from outside of not liking her push or her size. Her title win here is likely just to serve as a means to get it to Ronda. Yes she has a combined 5 title wins with the two titles, but I don't think her push is that much different than the majority of Charlotte's run or Bayley's initial callup. In fact Charlotte has the same amount of title wins in just about the same timeframe.

[Niners Fan in CT]

24 minutes ago, Overly Critical Man said:

There's nothing wrong with Alexa's matches. The hyperbole about how "bad" she is seems to correspond with how strongly someone disagrees with her push. I see little difference between her or say...Bayley

She's one of the worst bumpers in the company.  There's nothing hyperbolic about that statement. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

13 minutes ago, DreamBroken said:

In fact Charlotte has the same amount of title wins in just about the same timeframe.

We've discussed Charlotte.   Alexa was in like 16 consecutive title matches on PPV and the one she's not involved in last night she ends up with the title anyway.  This has been going on for a very long time. She's not good in the ring.  The fact that some of you have resorted to "x match with y opponent was okay..."   tells the story.  She hasn't had one great match yet and some of us prefer performers who can wrestle. 

If people hate Bayley now,  okay cool.  Hate on Bayley all you want she has at least proven herself in the ring.  But even if you can't stand Bayley,   then what about Asuka,  Sasha, Naomi,  Becky...   none of them have anything going on right now at all because the entire divisions are held hostage by poor wrestling. 

[username]

What people tend to gloss over with the women is that virtually the entire division is just terrible on the mic.  Not mediocre, but outright bad.  WWE isn't really built to deal with an entire division of people you don't really want having to talk for any period of time (Nia having to talk as champ nearly killed her run) and... it's not just that Alexa is really strong at that, but there really isn't anyone to rotate into that spot to give her more time away.  A heel Sasha seems to be the only real possibility on the Raw roster, but until someone comes along to also fill that role I think Alexa is gonna always be hovering around there.

[The Natural]

12 hours ago, Eivion said:

 

How the is it you people have somehow forgotten Nia's matches with Bayley, Sasha, and Asuka? Most of those matches were better than the Rousey match and had Nia looking just as much like a monster, if not more.

 

I remember them, more so the Sasha matches particularly the Gauntlet one. I think my opinion on Jax -Rousey is higher because I had little expectations. When that happens, it gives whatever it is a boost in approval.

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, The Natural said:

I remember them, more so the Sasha matches particularly the Gauntlet one. I think my opinion on Jax -Rousey is higher because I had little expectations. When that happens, it gives whatever it is a boost in approval.

You underestimate Nia too much, and Rousey already showed her potential at WM. Really it was about what I expected. I can see the two having something even better a year down the line with a more experienced Rousey.

[The Natural]

3 minutes ago, Eivion said:

You underestimate Nia too much, and Rousey already showed her potential at WM. Really it was about what I expected. I can see the two having something even better a year down the line with a more experienced Rousey.

Less knowing Rousey's potential after WrestleMania XXXIV, more her first singles match was my concern.

Amazing how Ronda's taken to wrestling.

[Raziel]

I like that everyone wants their favorite to be Ronda's SummerSlam sacrifice and turning Alexa into the board's Roman while not looking at the big picture.

 

And everyone more pissy at Alexa's heelish title theft than Carmella's domination of Asuka.

[Overly Critical Man]

1 hour ago, Raziel said:

I like that everyone wants their favorite to be Ronda's SummerSlam sacrifice and turning Alexa into the board's Roman while not looking at the big picture.

 

And everyone more pissy at Alexa's heelish title theft than Carmella's domination of Asuka.

What, you mean Carmella isn't a monster heel who is suppose to act like Asuka's strikes are pitiful weak blows that barely phase her?

[RIShane]

10 minutes ago, Overly Critical Man said:

What, you mean Carmella isn't a monster heel who is suppose to act like Asuka's strikes are pitiful weak blows that barely phase her?

This is what frustrates me so much about the Carmella push, besides the fact its happening at all. It'd be perfectly fine having Carmella just be a chickenshit heel who cheats to win and then crows about beating her opponents anyway, which would be an approach that plays to her strengths, but WWE is instead trying to simultaneously present her as a strong wrestler, which is laughable given her lack of in-ring talent and the opponents they're having her beat.

[Rows]

Asuka hasn't dominated anyone on the main roster. It was the same when she wrestled against Alexa. She gets her butt kicked then pulls out the submission finish. WWE is going to have heels work over their opponents regardless.

[Overly Critical Man]

7 minutes ago, Rows said:

Asuka hasn't dominated anyone on the main roster. It was the same when she wrestled against Alexa. She gets her butt kicked then pulls out the submission finish. WWE is going to have heels work over their opponents regardless.

It's not the fact Asuka didn't dominate anyone, it's more the fact Carmella didn't stay down for anything she got hit with. She just pops right up. It's really annoying. Asuka hits an entire flurry of big offense and Carmella rolls out of the ring and walks around looking annoyed. What the hell is that? At no point did Asuka look like she was on the verge of winning because of how bad Carmella's selling was. It just makes everything look bad.