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JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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2 hours ago, Horangi said:

I might catch a bit of flack for this, but the one guy I never got was CM Punk. And I can't even explain why. Maybe I could just never make a connection to him or his work? I can see why people like him and acknowledge some great matches he had (I.e. Cena at Night of Champions) but there's just something unexplainable why I just don't like/get him. I just don't enjoy his work all that much.

Same way in regards to his in-ring.   To me he was a poor man's Piper- great on the mic, bad in the ring.

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Wow, there's a lot of not liking of very talented individuals on here. Except Kurt Angle, he has had no clue what selling of any kind, limb, fatigue, whatever you want, is for mostly his entire career. Which can work in certain styles requiring sprints, but it's in companies and against guys where it doesn't necessarily make it the best all the time. He would have been fairly awesome in 1997 Michinoku Pro...

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On 6/21/2018 at 2:32 AM, mattdangerously said:

Honestly, everyone here can probably name someone that everyone else loves, but that we just don't "get".  For me, it's Toshiaki Kawada.  Hey, if you can't work a great match without kicking the shit out of your opponent, then you can't work a great match.  (Come at me, bro.)

Low-Ki for me even before bridges burnt.

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7 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Its probably unfair to the specific workers, but it doesn't help when every guy does their same signature spots in the same set up every night in every match, the TV matches have the same format that you can set your watch to. Some guys have the right pacing, variety of moveset, and ability to maintain interest to either thrive in that environment or remain tolerable. Most don't, irrespective of their qualifications in other environments.

This reminds me of watching Zayn/Nakamura and thinking “Wow, Nakamura has all of his WWE signature moves ready to go.  Those won’t get old quick at all.”

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I'm not trying to be hipster/anti-hipster or whatever it is this week but for me it's Reigns. Most of it really goes back to what has been discussed above because of WWE limitations, the character is generic and I see people writing that he's so good it's basically a foregone conclusion his matches are going to be great. I watch them and they are , fine maybe? 

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10 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Its probably unfair to the specific workers, but it doesn't help when every guy does their same signature spots in the same set up every night in every match, the TV matches have the same format that you can set your watch to. Some guys have the right pacing, variety of moveset, and ability to maintain interest to either thrive in that environment or remain tolerable. Most don't, irrespective of their qualifications in other environments.

It's annoying that its become an aspect of storytelling that doing anything outside of that paradigm is noteworthy, or that it requires weeks of storytelling to justify why this match isn't laid out like every other. Speaking of which, I also don't miss Dean Ambrose at all.

This nails it. It's what I absolutely camt stand the most about the modern product. I have to blame Austin for this with his hammering in his adage of "get your shit in!". It's bullshit, predictable, and makes the matches pointless. 

It's ok for a person to have a Bret Hart-rsque 5 Moves of Doom... Because those are setup moves... But working the same spots into every match? That is so contrived.

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6 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

This nails it. It's what I absolutely camt stand the most about the modern product. I have to blame Austin for this with his hammering in his adage of "get your shit in!". It's bullshit, predictable, and makes the matches pointless. 

It's ok for a person to have a Bret Hart-rsque 5 Moves of Doom... Because those are setup moves... But working the same spots into every match? That is so contrived.

The thing is Bret was a master of making his 5 Moves of Doom mean something in the context of telling a story in the ring. That is so far removed from the philosophy of "get all your moves in" as to be apples and oranges in comparison. You are spot on that the current "get your shit in"  makes everything pointless. It's like when ECW killed the chairshot as an effective weapon. When you have two guys stand there and bash each other over the head with a metal chair for five minutes, it no longer means anything. The dive out of the ring was jumping the shark when only lucha guys did it, now everyone seems to feel the need to do so. Fuck that, it was a stupid spot when the lucha guys did it as everyone rolled around on the floor for a minute and then were just fine, it's worse now. 

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14 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

This nails it. It's what I absolutely camt stand the most about the modern product. I have to blame Austin for this with his hammering in his adage of "get your shit in!". It's bullshit, predictable, and makes the matches pointless. 

It's ok for a person to have a Bret Hart-rsque 5 Moves of Doom... Because those are setup moves... But working the same spots into every match? That is so contrived.

They're signature spots. That's part of how you get over...

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35 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I have to blame Austin for this with his hammering in his adage of "get your shit in!"

Generally agree with your point, but do not understand or agree with laying blame at Austin's feet. He's clearly not in a position to influence WWE match layouts and is one of the highest-profile critics of current WWE product.

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47 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

It's ok for a person to have a Bret Hart-rsque 5 Moves of Doom... Because those are setup moves... But working the same spots into every match? That is so contrived.

One of the main reasons I enjoy Pete Dunne is because, like Bret, he does his signature moves (including the finger break, which I normally hate) but they’re worked into the story he’s telling. If you watch his last few singles matches on NXT you’ll see a different application of the same moves every time, even if it’s only a subtle difference. That’s what separates a good wrestler from great. Seth Rollins is a phenomenal performer and an amazing athlete, but he’s just a good wrestler because I can’t remember an individual match he’s had in a long time. They all blur together.

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11 hours ago, The Natural said:

Poor Sami Zayn tearing both rotator cuffs. Fuckk. I remember Sami tore one as he made his entrance for his WWE main roster debut against John Cena in 2015.

And while it was kind of WWE to give him a promo-heavy feud that required little wrestling, they couldn't have given him a crappier one.

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40 minutes ago, RIShane said:

And while it was kind of WWE to give him a promo-heavy feud that required little wrestling, they couldn't have given him a crappier one.

Yeah, feel for Zayn getting stuck with shit material on the stick. Shitty end of the stick if you we'lll.

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WWECW Christian was somebody who made all his signature spots make sense in the context of the match he was working.

Sucks for Sami but he was dead on RAW anyway. He can come back as face or heel in 2019, and jump to Smackdown in the draft. He might be considered injury prone but I think he has a ceiling anyway. Wish him luck with his ops and rehab.

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13 minutes ago, ComingToAmerica said:

WWECW Christian

That show was so good in those days. I should go back and rewatch the 2008-09 eps and see how it holds up. One hour time-frame kept things moving, and we got some terrific matches. Christian, Finlay, Swagger and others (Matt H, Mark H?), going on PPV and stealing the shows. 

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4 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Generally agree with your point, but do not understand or agree with laying blame at Austin's feet. He's clearly not in a position to influence WWE match layouts and is one of the highest-profile critics of current WWE product.

I’m pretty sure I’ve heard him criticize the “get your shit in” mentality on his podcast as well.

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29 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Without it, Brian Cage would have no career! It's half his gimmick! Mr. GMSI.

And all this time I thought “GMSI” was some kind of steroid that he thought he’d use in his ring name to sound tongue-in-cheek.

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And the penny drops.  The final straw for C**s being fired apparently was an ugly incident with Carmella:

Quote

He went up to Carmella and, according to a well-placed source, caused a scene while asking her to forgive him, apparently in hopes for a reconciliation. Carmella tried to walk off but he grabbed her arm and wrestlers in the area stepped in. We’re told that The Usos and Erick Rowan were the ones to get Cass to back away.

Well, once word got back to management, the call was made to fire him. Vince McMahon called Cass into a room and broke the news to him hours before Smackdown Live in Toledo. This recent incident would also explain why he was not wished well in his future endeavors when WWE.com announced his release.

http://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/exclusive-incident-with-carmella-was-the-main-reason-why-big-cass-was-released-by-wwe/

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On 6/21/2018 at 2:34 AM, Wyld Samurai said:

So.the WWE Network went random on me and threw on a replay of TakeOver Chicago... But with the Spanish commentary. 

Spanish Commentary is soooooooo much better.

This is why NBC Universo rules. If you missed anything you get the replays minus Cole And The Gang. 

What was the deal with Carmella (as in, what was their prior beef)? When both of your former teammates dislike you (and one is a verified, bonafide piece of shit) you must really, really be an asshole.

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5 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

What was the deal with Carmella? When both of your former teammates dislike you (and one is a verified, bonafide piece of shit) you must really, really be an asshole.

Does she have a reputation for being unlikable? She seems like a sweetheart in the few non-kayfabe videos I have seen of her. Maybe there was some basis in truth for the joke way back on their NXT videos about how she wouldn't fuck Enzo? 

 

 

Also, I have been meaning to watch a PPV with Spanish or Japanese commentary. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

What was the deal with Carmella (as in, what was their prior beef)? When both of your former teammates dislike you (and one is a verified, bonafide piece of shit) you must really, really be an asshole.

Carmella and Cass used to date.  She dumped him.  

That's all the background you need for the story above. 

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