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JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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Maybe you guys can help me with this. Everyone always says what a badass that Minoru Suzuki is, but if he's 5'5 and has 20 losses is he really a bad ass? And that many of his wins are said to be fixed fights? I know we want more bad asses than Brock Lesnar, Ronda and the stoner indy dude, but are we so desperate to say MS is bad ass while forgetting Sakuraba the Gracie Killer? Reddit couldn't answer this, so maybe you guys can. Punk was made fun of 2 losses but bad ass Suzuki has 20, so why is he tough?

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I mean... he's 5'10, not 5'5, and has ~30 wins to go with those ~20 losses. "Was Pancrase a work?" is always going to lead to dispute over records, but even granting that, it's hard to imagine what 30 guys Punk could beat would look like, considering he spent his last fight getting strung along and tickled by a fellow hobbyist. So... "eye test", as much as anything. Punk could've gone 0-2, and come out with a better reputation. But not looking like he did.

And no one forgot about Sakaruba. (Who, I guess we should say, had 17 losses.) If he'd transitioned into Suzuki's pro wrestling schedule, he'd be more discussed on pro wrestling forums. Back in 15/16, he certainly was.

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1 hour ago, Rhett Cohen said:

He tried to do what Sting tried to do when he signed. DDP made it about being made famous since UT stole that slogan/catchphrase from Billy Gunn. Sting tried to say it wasn't about WCW vs WWE it was that HHH was an asshole and needed to be stopped. Bookers put a stop to their improvs real quick after that, if I'm remembering correctly.

And then he got pinned by Undertaker's wife and beaten to within an inch of his life in a cage while his partner ran away.

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55 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

And then he got pinned by Undertaker's wife and beaten to within an inch of his life in a cage while his partner ran away.

That killed him and Kanyon, who really was the Alliance MVP (well I guess RVD could have argued for that title as well).

And poor Sting, he gets brought in as "The Vigilante" even though he says he doesn't care about MNWs but he has to fill the role of Ted Turner. Then Seth breaks his neck...fun times.

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Beech27 thanks for the explanation. I just never got the appeal but you summed it up nicely. Usually I'd get downvoted into oblivion and would never get why people like him. Just 'cause I don't like someone doesn't mean they're bad, right? So I appreciate the straightforwardness of your response.

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7 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

On one hand it's nice that we have a recent precedent for how bad you have to be for Vince to give up on you.

Unfortunately, Roman Reigns clears "Big Cass level bad" by a lot and even Jinder is slightly above that threshold as well, so no hope on those fronts.

Reigns and Mahal are, by every account, decent guys who behave properly backstage. And, as you mentioned, they're competent at their jobs. Reigns is actually good at the graps. So if they can carry out their assignments and know how to act like rational adults, what is the point of saying "no hope of them getting fired, too bad?" 

Besides, Cass wasn't let go because of his in-ring work. He was let go for being a liability to an increasingly PR-obsessed WWE.

 

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PW Sheet on why Cass was fired: 

Quote

Pro Wrestling Sheet has learned Big Cass doesn’t seem to have been fired for one certain reason, instead it was a mix of multiple things — the most noteworthy happening on WWE’s European tour.

As we first reported, Cass went against a directive from Vince McMahon last month during a segment involving a little person. We’re told this is when things began to go south for him.

According to Sports Illustrated, Big Cass was apparently drinking during the European tour which took place a week later and allegedly had “attitude issues.” They also claim “being intoxicated in public” is one of the underlying reasons for his firing.

Multiple sources tell us one of the incidents which rubbed people the wrong way happened in private, however, on the WWE bus chauffeuring talent.

We’re told the bathroom lock was apparently broken, but Cass didn’t realize it and thought he was being pranked. After being stuck inside for too long, a claustrophobic/angry Cass broke down the door. This meant people had to embarrassingly use the bathroom afterward with no door.

This, obviously, made some of the riders on the bus unhappy. It’s worth noting that some understood his frustration though and weren’t as angry as others.

Both of these incidents in such short time — coupled with 1-2 minor unverified incidents that we’re working to confirm with additional sources — seem to have been the final straw.

“WWE has come to terms on the release of William Morrissey (Big Cass),” the company announced on Tuesday. As you might’ve noticed, the wrestler was not wished well in his future endeavors.

The 30-year-old last wrestled at Money in the Bank in a losing effort against Daniel Bryan.

So the TL;DR his 3 strikes were:

1) Getting physical with a little person after being specifically told not to.

2) Being an obnoxious drunk in public during the Euro tour

3) Breaking down a bathroom door on a bus during the Euro tour. 

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7 hours ago, Rhett Cohen said:

*Stone Cold, the midcardiest of midcarders in Memphis and WCW

That is not true at all. Austin was near the top of the card his time in Memphis and a lot of his time in WCW. I know it was suppose to sound cute for your argument, but it kills you out of the gate. 

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I don't doubt that those incidents - if true - had a lot to do with Cass' firing.  But let's face it....  a lot of guys have done that or worse and still have jobs.   Hell, guys of a lot less use to the company than Cass have gotten away with worse and kept their jobs.  Remember the story about Sin Cara being kicked off the bus?

Cass' biggest issue was being a middling performer who the company decided wasn't worth any hassles.  If he had carried the Daniel Bryan feud on the mic or impressed people in the matches the two had, he'd probably still have a job.

Besides, we still have those cringeworthy "Big guy in a suit makes fun of little people who aren't really little" promos to remember him by.  Those are so bad, we'll still be making snide comments about them 10 years from now.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Player One said:

Besides, we still have those cringeworthy "Big guy in a suit makes fun of little people who aren't really little" promos to remember him by.  Those are so bad, we'll still be making snide comments about them 10 years from now.

 

 

If Cass decides to leave wrestling behind him, I hope he'll at least wear a properly fitting suit on job interviews.

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8 hours ago, Rhett Cohen said:

Isn't it odd that the only person more beloved in Mexico than the two known assholes Vampiro and Konann is the gigantic asshole Morrisey? And that none of them are Mexican?

I take umbrage with two parts of your post -

1) Vampiro and Konnan are waaaaaay bigger assholes the Morrissey. Morrissey is a saint.

2) Morrissey is beloved all over the world, including his strange following in California street gangs.

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25 minutes ago, Player One said:

I don't doubt that those incidents - if true - had a lot to do with Cass' firing.  But let's face it....  a lot of guys have done that or worse and still have jobs.   Hell, guys of a lot less use to the company than Cass have gotten away with worse and kept their jobs.  Remember the story about Sin Cara being kicked off the bus?

Cass' biggest issue was being a middling performer who the company decided wasn't worth any hassles.  If he had carried the Daniel Bryan feud on the mic or impressed people in the matches the two had, he'd probably still have a job.

Besides, we still have those cringeworthy "Big guy in a suit makes fun of little people who aren't really little" promos to remember him by.  Those are so bad, we'll still be making snide comments about them 10 years from now.

 

 

Maybe they should fire the writers who came up with that awful drivel.

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Simon Gotch: "Best case scenario, Enzo made a diss rap about a mentally unstable drug addict who needs counseling for both a drug problem and she's bipolar or whatever mental issue she has. She needs to be seeing a psychiatrist and getting drug counselling. She does not need a diss rap being written about her. That is not going to help her situation. And a decent human being would see that and go 'You know what? I'm going to distance myself from this. I'm going to move on and do my own thing. This does not define me. This is not who I am. I did not do this.' They're going to walk away from it because they're clean and innocent.

 

His reaction was instead to do the diss record. Which worst case scenario, he did commit the act of rape, he lucked out because unfortunately the reality of criminal proceedings is that they are financial acts. Lack of evidence usually means that they don't want to spend any more money trying to gather evidence. That it's not been easy enough to justify the cost and they're going to move on. This is not uncommon in cases of sexual assault because again, you rarely have any sort of evidence beyond DNA and all that really shows is that a sex act occurred. It does not show whether or not that act was consensual. So it's just a he said, she said situation unfortunately. So that means worst case scenario, he did a diss track on a woman he raped.

 

So best case scenario he's an awful human being, worst case scenario he's a monster."

I think Gotch did less damage to Enzo that time he nearly killed him

 

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