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MAY 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.


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41 minutes ago, CreativeControl said:

His finisher could've been awkwardly jamming his forearm down his opponents mouth 

Then he realized just turn it upside down. 

Sunny was on the roster so they could have promoted Lays. 

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It's not exactly Shibata is my Homie, but I could see the issue with that.

Though in my brain I associated that with something Brian Pillman would have said back in the day.  Not necessarily right, but it kind of takes the sting off of it some for me.

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I'm not gonna tell people how to live. But if that offends you, I can't see how you function in the outside world. Reminds me of when Kirk Cameron told the president of ABC that Growing Pains is pornography. 

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5 hours ago, The Natural said:

I'm really liking the match listings for The Evolution of WWE Women's Division DVD. I'd only make one or two changes:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnetwork.com/full-match-listing-evolution-of-wwe-womens-division-dvd/154103/

Notice there's Moolah matches but no spotlight on her. I'd lose the former with the latter.

Well, the biggest problem for ignoring Moolah in this instance is you take away Moolah vs. Wendi Richter, and Wendi Richter's a problem since she's important enough to WWF women's history she deserved a spotlight on the DVD and a match...but most of Richter's biggest matches were against Moolah, so you're kind of stuck there.

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You can't remove Moolah from wrestling history. I went thru this on another forum. But their is no real case against Moolah being a "pimp" if you really examine the evidence. 

She was a money grubbing piece of shit even compared to other wrestling promoters. She stifled the growth and evolution of women wrestling for at least twenty years and never made a star. 

Wendi Richter is debatable, you probably could have slid any woman into that spot. But Moolah was such an old uptight crone, I think she was a good antagonist to the rock and wrestling Richter and Lauper. 

I think there is a bias against Moolah for the shitty things she definitely did, that people don't examine allegations the way they should. 

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I wish that women’s dvd had one of the JBA/Glamour Girls matches on it. Specifically the one from MSG, 2 days before Survivor Series ‘87. That match rules. 

Besides this match being awesome, the commentary team of Monsoon, Bockwinkel and Hayes is pretty good. 

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3 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

I wish that women’s dvd had one of the JBA/Glamour Girls matches on it. Specifically the one from MSG, 2 days before Survivor Series ‘87. That match rules. 

The lack of a JBA/Glamour Girls match on the DVD is disheartening.  Not fully knowing about joshi wrestling at the time when I first saw their match I was completely blown away.  I wish they'd find a way to bring those teams up a bit more in their history, seems that unless you actively look for it they've been forgotten in WWE lore.

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The lack of JBA vs. GG is disappointing. I can only assume we get those matches when/if WWE ever brings back the women's tag titles.

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35 minutes ago, Eivion said:

The lack of JBA vs. GG is disappointing. I can only assume we get those matches when/if WWE ever brings back the women's tag titles.

Yeah, but it also goes with a similar problem.

The Jumping Bomb Angels were very innovative and doing things seen even now as big deals for women to do in the ring, but at the same time...the Glamour Girls were...just not very good. They had chemistry with the JBA, but they were really bad.

With the Jumping Bomb Angels, they were timeless, but with the Glamour Girls- just looking at the IIconics, Lay-Cool, or the Bella Twins doing similar schtick to them- heck, even the Beautiful People in TNA for the time period of the same "We're so much better looking than everyone else and we're catty mean girls about it" gimmick- and you can see the newer models of that gimmick are just BETTER, in every possible way, by any possible metric you could use to determine "who's better- and it's not even close. 

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1 hour ago, SorceressKnight said:

Yeah, but it also goes with a similar problem.

The Jumping Bomb Angels were very innovative and doing things seen even now as big deals for women to do in the ring, but at the same time...the Glamour Girls were...just not very good. They had chemistry with the JBA, but they were really bad.

With the Jumping Bomb Angels, they were timeless, but with the Glamour Girls- just looking at the IIconics, Lay-Cool, or the Bella Twins doing similar schtick to them- heck, even the Beautiful People in TNA for the time period of the same "We're so much better looking than everyone else and we're catty mean girls about it" gimmick- and you can see the newer models of that gimmick are just BETTER, in every possible way, by any possible metric you could use to determine "who's better- and it's not even close. 

What the fuck are you talking about, buster?

Look, I pass this off on you not having watched the matches for a long time, but the Glamour Girls were great. Kai was good, but Judy Martin was the best female wrestler in the company from 1980-2010. First of all, they were bases. If you go back and watch those matches with 2018 eyes, it's obvious that they were driving things, that they were grounding things, that they were putting things together. They were the ones taking all of the JBA offense and giving the matches form and meaning. If you look at, let's say, Judy Martin vs Desiree Peterson from that same period, you can see just how solid and mean her stuff came off, how credible it came off as. Did she work that "Moolah" style? Sure, but she's one of the few who really made it work. If you care (and you shouldn't), she wasn't just all hair-throwing though. She was doing top rope clothesline drapes and power bombs in 1985.

Seriously, watch this and look at how she worked the heat:

 

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Yeah, I just re-watched the series last month. That just comes across as crazy talk. The GG do a great job holding up their end. I rarely watched TNA so I haven't seen enough BP to comment, but as much as I like Lay-Cool, the Bellas, and IIconics I honestly can't say I have seen any of them look as good as the GG did in their matches, especially as a team.

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Fair enough.

Rewatching the match given, I'll give you that Judy Martin may have been better than I said if you'll give me that the biggest fatal flaw Martin and Kai had was that of all the examples given of teams with similar gimmicks, The Glamour Girls were the one team that couldn't cut a promo. The fact they needed Jimmy Hart as a manager was a damning blow for a team doing that gimmick- gimmicks like the catty mean girl need a team that can come through on the mic arguably even more than they need good in-ring ability.

Whether or not it was the "women wrestlers rarely cut promos in the 1980s so we don't KNOW if the GG could cut a promo or not" is a fair argument, but when all of those other teams were at least a solid promo and the GG were so not-solid they needed a manager, that is a fair argument for their weaknesses as well.

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6 hours ago, Victator said:

I don't think it matters provided he does not look giant on the show. I think Eric Young would be perfect as champion, he could do what Enzo was doing except he can wrestle and is not a gross tumor of a human. 

I don't think Cedric Alexander is cutting it. How do you get excited for Cedric Alexander vs Buddy Murphy? 

I tend to agree about Cedric, but if you can't get into Murphy I'm not sure you're watching the same show as I am. He's been killing it since the call-up.

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39 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

Fair enough.

Rewatching the match given, I'll give you that Judy Martin may have been better than I said if you'll give me that the biggest fatal flaw Martin and Kai had was that of all the examples given of teams with similar gimmicks, The Glamour Girls were the one team that couldn't cut a promo. The fact they needed Jimmy Hart as a manager was a damning blow for a team doing that gimmick- gimmicks like the catty mean girl need a team that can come through on the mic arguably even more than they need good in-ring ability.

Whether or not it was the "women wrestlers rarely cut promos in the 1980s so we don't KNOW if the GG could cut a promo or not" is a fair argument, but when all of those other teams were at least a solid promo and the GG were so not-solid they needed a manager, that is a fair argument for their weaknesses as well.

You go ahead and keep moving those goal posts.

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I recently watched a couple Glamour Girls matches on Prime Time and was blown away by them, Judy Martin especially. She was a hellacious bumper and was busting out a power bomb in the mid-80s. On top of that, they're both total ring generals. Even the non-Bomb Angels matches rock, if you ask me.

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5 minutes ago, southofheavy said:

I recently watched a couple Glamour Girls matches on Prime Time and was blown away by them, Judy Martin especially. She was a hellacious bumper and was busting out a power bomb in the mid-80s. On top of that, they're both total ring generals. Even the non-Bomb Angels matches rock, if you ask me.

Any specific one you would suggest?

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Vs. Penny Mitchell and Candace Pardue, 11.1.86, in particular. Mitchell and Pardue aren't on par with the Bomb Angels, so this is the Glamour Girls show, and that's totally okay. I dug the hell out of it and it'll only cost ya 12 minutes.

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1 hour ago, Matt D said:

You go ahead and keep moving those goal posts.

Who's moving the goalposts? 

They can't cut a promo. They needed a manager to speak for them. This is not an unfair knock on them- For their gimmick, that is a damning blow.

I'm willing to give you I may have been harsh on Martin from the match you gave me. If you can't accept my part of it, you're the one moving the goalposts there until I say they were the greatest team ever.

 

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