2018 NBA Playoffs: QUARTERFINALS

[sabremike]

I will put it like this: if LeBron was a Knick they would be in this year's NBA finals. People struggle to give him credit because the past is so romanticized but to me he absolutely deserves it.

[_MJ_]

Just a week ago, more than a few NBA heads were picking Philly as the favorites to make the Finals. I think Vegas may have even made Philly the odds on favorite to get out of the east after the 1st round ended. 

...one round later the "east is weak" again. 

As for Lebron vs Jordan, I sort of wish the social media of today was around during Jordan's era. There are moments of Jordan's career that would likely be viewed very differently if it had the same level of 24/7 coverage today.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by _MJ_

[Jiji]

3 minutes ago, _MJ_ said:

Just a week ago, more than a few NBA heads were picking Philly as the favorites to make the Finals. I think Vegas may have even made Philly the odds on favorite to get out the east after the 1st round ended. 

...one round later the "east is weak" again. 

As for Lebron vs Jordan, I sort of wish the social media of today was around during Jordan's era. There are moments of Jordan's career that would likely be view very differently if it had the same level of 24/7 coverage today.

  

Doesn't Philly looking like the team to come out from the East after the first round reflect how weak the East is? Nobody looked all that great aside from Philly once Embiid returned. 

[Kuetsar]

2 hours ago, _MJ_ said:

Just a week ago, more than a few NBA heads were picking Philly as the favorites to make the Finals. I think Vegas may have even made Philly the odds on favorite to get out the east after the 1st round ended. 

...one round later the "east is weak" again. 

As for Lebron vs Jordan, I sort of wish the social media of today was around during Jordan's era. There are moments of Jordan's career that would likely be view very differently if it had the same level of 24/7 coverage today.

 

Could you imagine the coverage for the baseball retirement/secret suspension nowadays?

[sabremike]

5 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

Could you imagine the coverage for the baseball retirement/secret suspension nowadays?

I've never bought the idea of a secret suspension because the NBA wasn't run by morons and they weren't going to get rid of the league's cash cow. That would've been insane.

[jaedmc]

The story sounds sexy, but the likely hood of them suspending Michael Jordan at the peak of His Airness is about as likely as WWE suspending John Cena over a Wellness Violation.

[Niners Fan in CT]

The difference with Jordan is his hiccups in the playoffs came when he was younger so they are never going to be brought up and the one time the Bulls as we knew them lost it was against Orlando with Shaq and I'm pretty sure the NBA burnt the tapes of that footage.  Even so,  Jordan was barely out of retirement so I have no issue with him receiving a pass for that one.  

So LeBron vs. Jordan is always going to be a tough one,   Jordan in his prime was about as perfect as you could be.  Some argue that if he hadn't retired (the first time) the Bulls might have won 8 or 9 titles. I don't think that's fair to Houston because The Dream was a fucking beast but again it's all part of the Jordan legacy.  He never lost in a spot where people are going to remember it.  

Compare it to LeBron.  He lost a game 7 against Boston in '08 where Paul Pierce dueled him to a draw.  If you want to say he wasn't ready and the big 3 were too much that's fair. But then he lost to Boston again two years later with a mysterious "injury" which nobody ever got the whole story on.  Many believe he wasn't really hurt.  The year before the Cavs lost to the Magic.  So KG is injured for Boston and it should have been an easy road and they lost to Dwight Howard and company.  Nobody respects Dwight Howard like that and Hedo/Lewis aren't names people will talk to their grand kids about.  

That robbed us of a LeBron vs. Kobe finals.  Then LeBron joins the Heat to get past Boston.  The Decision was remembered for all the wrong reasons.  They did win two titles but the run is bookend by them losing to a Dirk led Mavericks team that was a lot of vets past their prime and then a Spurs team that just destroyed them.  Still,  LeBron got his two titles so that was good.  

Then he goes back to Cleveland and that's where the argument gets interesting.  He had Kyrie helping out but everyone needs help.  They come back down 3-1 to a 73-9 Warriors team.  It's probably going to be remembered as one of the greatest finals and upsets in history.  LeBron needed that for his legacy.  From this point forward it's tough because you have Durant joining a team that won 73 games,  it's a move that has hurt the overall competition,  if the talent was more spread out LeBron could probably have won another ring or two.  

[Dewar]

5 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Raptors winning 59 games but then getting swept by LeBron and Kyle Korver is unbelievable. 

Not to anyone that has ever been a Raptors fan.

[jaedmc]

That Golden State game was so bad that Javale McGee was shooting 3s in the fourth

[Brian Fowler]

LeBron is a better shooter, passer, and rebounder, has on average went further in the playoffs annually, and already has more great seasons. Jordan has a higher scoring average and more rings. But LeBron's longevity is gonna be what puts his argument over the top.

[Jiji]

I'm with you on everything except shooting. Is he really? James has a better 3 pt% but Jordan was a significantly better free throw shooter (84% v 74%) and I imagine Jordan was hitting a lot of fadeaways and fewer layups/dunks than LeBron. Their career field goal percentages are so close (.504 for James, .497 for Jordan), but level of difficulty has to go to Jordan, right? There's also the age old hand-checking argument too.

LeBron is a great defender when he wants to be and as time has gone on, he's become pickier and pickier. There's also a lot of floating through games and "sending messages" to teammates by taking defensive possessions off entirely. I was really young when Jordan was at his pinnacle, but I certainly don't remember that being a thing he ever did.

I don't think there's a lot separating them other than rings. You can't really go wrong with either of them and I always think Kareem deserves to be in the discussion too but probably as a challenger.

Edit: Looks like Chris Paul is single-handedly shutting down the Jazz's bench lol. This is pathetic. I love me some Mitchell, Rubio, and Stifle Tower but they're one more good piece from really challenging the likes of the Rockets and Warriors. I don't know how they'd get that piece outside of drafting though.

[Brian Fowler]

James is way out ahead in eFG% and TS%

[_MJ_]

Impatiently waiting on the Western Conference finals...

[Dolfan in NYC]

This was cut for time, but is extremely accurate. 

[Jiji]

This was too funny. I dislike Harden the most but have always had a soft spot for CP3 (and to a lesser degree D'Antoni). 

[Lawful Metal]

Clint Capela is the best center in the playoffs.

[sydneybrown]

2 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

This was cut for time, but is extremely accurate. 

Literally the sharpest to the bone thing SNL has done in years.  And they cut it.  They are literally scared more over LeBron James getting pissed off than the fucking president.  Who is the highlight of every show including this one. Cut for time????  THAT was the HIGHLIGHT!

[sabremike]

12 minutes ago, sydneybrown said:

Literally the sharpest to the bone thing SNL has done in years.  And they cut it.  They are literally scared more over LeBron James getting pissed off than the fucking president.  Who is the highlight of every show including this one. Cut for time????  THAT was the HIGHLIGHT!

Don't think that's the reason because NBC doesn't have NBA rights and they are locked up for the forseeable future so why would they care?

Also for GOAT you have to include Wilt in the conversation. Craziest Wilt stat: one season he averaged playing over 48 minutes a night. A regulation NBA game is 48 minutes of course. He did that by playing every minute of every game including overtimes. That is a mark that is literally never going to be broken.

[Brian Fowler]

About Wilt, Russell, O, etc... I just can't fairly scarier people evaluate because I didn't see them. Even Kareem I really only saw the final few years.

Wilt's numbers are insane though.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Jordan was getting triple doubles before they became a thing to do,  before small ball and before guards flew into the paint on every possession.  He could easily average more rebounds and assists in this era and under these rules.  Also, he shot 50% in an era where it was more difficult to score and if he played now I can't imagine how many free throw attempts he'd have.  He'd also be hitting most of those free throw attempts. 

But aside from all of that,  Jordan didn't have the head scratching moments that LeBron has had in his prime.  I don't need to go deeper into defending Jordan, he's still clearly #1 and nothing LeBron does in the next couple weeks is going to change it.  He might get to another finals but they'll lose 4-0.   Plus,  this team as it's constructed is with LeBron playing GM.  The "he needs more help" doesn't even hold much weight considering he's the one that wanted all of these guys and he's the one who told them to give Thompson a ridiculous contract. 

[Brian Fowler]

Defense is so much better today than it was in the 90's dude. They weren't allowed to use zone principles at all. 

[Lawful Metal]

4 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Defense is so much better today than it was in the 90's dude. They weren't allowed to use zone principles at all. 

Dude, back then anything short of Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon was allowed on defense. There were entire gameplans where the idea was if you beat up Jordan enough he’ll pass the ball. Coincidentally, there were a couple of years Jordan averaged 20 free throws a game (take that Harden haters). 

Also, you can’t have a GOAT conversation without mentioning Hakeem Olajuwon. 

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

 

[sabremike]

I remember a time several years ago where a Boston team took a 3-0 lead over a Philly team in the second round of a playoff series. All hope seemed lost. 4 wins later the Philly team was on it's way to the conference finals, and I still have the souvineer puck from that series. Get Richards, Gange and Lappy in the building tonight to remind us that anything is possible!!!

[Niners Fan in CT]

The thing is...  eventually it's going to happen.  We've seen 3-1 comebacks a lot I see no reason why 3-0 can't happen and this is the perfect series for it.  Stevens is ridiculous but Philly is the more talented team and if they find a way to get rolling they could possibly rip off a few wins against this depleted roster.