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The Raw After Wrestlemania 34 - 4/9/2018


The Natural

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On 4/9/2018 at 10:12 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

Well that RAW After Mania crowd was certainly the quietest one I can remember. Mountain Dew and Doritos finally caught up.  

It was more like po boys and sazeracs til 6am every morning, but sure. 

I did love this show, though. That Joe promo, Brother Nero, lot of great debuts and returns. Pure fun.

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Okay. So I just watched the Samoa Joe/Reigns angle from the youtubes. Joe was great but I'm confused by the Reigns angle and was looking for clarification.

So was Reigns  saying he was booked to win a wrestling match because Brock was leaving for UFC, but then Vince re-signed him and changed the finish? Or was he saying that he thought he was booked to win but then Brock legitimately beat the shit out of him, and Vince didn't "smarten him up"? And is he whining about getting another title shot, because he can't legit beat Brock Lesnar and he's angry that he's not being positioned as the top guy any more?

Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it, or I just missed something that wasn't on the youtube clip, but what exactly is "the conspiracy"? 

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My speculation based on Meltzer's speculation (so, y'know): We're supposed to read between the lines that Vince changed the finish very late, possibly even during the match, thus denying Roman the win he was supposed to get and deserved, both because he's the full-time guy and that's what the writing to that point had seemed to dictate. Basically, it's to align Roman with wrestlers who fans perceived were booked to lose when they shouldn't have, because so long as he's thought of as "Vince's guy", a large segment of the audience won't take to him. But if Vince chose Brock, then suddenly Roman is the irl/backstage underdog.

My own speculation: I don't think they're leaning too hard into the "Brock shot on him" angle, because they had a much stronger finish to tell that story with the elbows and subsequent blood. They could easily have stopped the match there, had the ref (and maybe someone from the back) get visibly angry with Brock, etc. No one's gonna believe Roman got legitimately caught with a shoot F5. (But if you believe the elbows were Brock going off-script, and want to boo him for being unprofessional, so much the better.)

But I think it's all supposed to be vague enough that you can insert whatever machinations you find most compelling.

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My problem with that promo and ones like it, especially with Roman, is that anyone that can interpret the shooty parts of it doesn't care because they're smartened up enough to know better than to think any of it is true. So then you're just left with Roman looking like an entitled loser bitching about a conspiracy when everyone saw him lose clean. The only people who could get hooked with a promo like that are middle school kids old enough to be following internet rumors but young enough to still get worked. 

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28 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

  No one's gonna believe Roman got legitimately caught with a shoot F5. (But if you believe the elbows were Brock going off-script, and want to boo him for being unprofessional, so much the better.)

It's not like the F5 is particularly "hurty" to begin with. The German suplex is a far more hurty move. 

If you're going to do a worked shoot - do something out of the ordinary and not a call back to Orton v Lesnar

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My wife, who didn't know much of any of the story and saw Wrestlemania, watched the Joe clip and said "Oh Samoa Joe is the good guy and now Roman's the bad guy, this is cool." So I don't know how casual fans are supposed to interpret it. And like you said, the fans they're trying to change are the ones who should know by now that if it's on TV it's a work.

What I really find hilarious about this is that while they were trying to manufacture this character for Roman, they made the character organically again with Rusev. 

 

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My takeaway was similar, but a little more kayfabey, in that Roman was saying Vince was trying to have Lesnar essentially take him out, and now Vince resigned him to finish the job in Saudi Arabia in a cage.  Remember, in the “build” Roman was suspended solely for pointing out Brock was Vince’s boy and was treated special.

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I'm done with Brock I really am. The allure is gone, he use to be a big deal but now he's just there killing full timers momentum. I turned on him when they put him over Braun in September. I liked the match with AJ st the Series but that's more AJ than anything. 

Give Roman the belt at the GGR. Title changes hands in Saudi Arabia, history making blah blah. 11 Days later Joe chokes out Roman and wins the title. Have Roman chase the belt until SummerSlam, give Roman his moment. 

The only problem is what to do with Braun, I was hoping for like a Lio Rush juxtaposition team that were exact opposites that worked well as a team that would keep him busy for a while. maybe he goes to SmackDown in the Superstar Shakeup. Have him beat AJ at Backlash and get a run with the title or fuck IDK have him pinn Jinder for the US Title give him a run he can loose it in December in some multi man match where he isn't pinned.

Then Braun wins the Royal Rumble says he wants Roman at Mania as he has yet to pin Roman then do Roman vs Braun at Mania 35 where Braun finally goes over Roman.

Sorry for fantasy booking.

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Court Bauer said on Austin's pod that he had talked to folks in the Anoia family and they made the point that, with a couple exceptions (like the Rock), samoans have been the most successful in the business as heels. 

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Well, yeah. I don't think there's any doubt that Roman would make for a killer heel and there's more than enough faces for him to face. Hell, you have Joe who is bursting at the seems to be the tough talking face and Roman who desperately needs to be a heel.

All of this is wasted text though because they're never turning Roman.

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The beginning of Roman's promo would essentially be my promo if you kept putting me in matches with Brock.

"Well yea ... he might have destroyed me this time, and last time, but I mean ... you keep putting me against him and eventually he'll trip on the way up the ring steps, knock himself out and I'll win!"

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13 hours ago, jaedmc said:

Okay. So I just watched the Samoa Joe/Reigns angle from the youtubes. Joe was great but I'm confused by the Reigns angle and was looking for clarification.

So was Reigns  saying he was booked to win a wrestling match because Brock was leaving for UFC, but then Vince re-signed him and changed the finish? Or was he saying that he thought he was booked to win but then Brock legitimately beat the shit out of him, and Vince didn't "smarten him up"? And is he whining about getting another title shot, because he can't legit beat Brock Lesnar and he's angry that he's not being positioned as the top guy any more?

Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it, or I just missed something that wasn't on the youtube clip, but what exactly is "the conspiracy"? 

I think it's much easier to explain the whole thing as the whole Raw episode was already written with the idea the Reigns goes over. Then the rematch in Saudi makes sense, the Joe promo makes way more sense and the Roman promo is "we're giving Reigns another title shot, it doesn't make sense but nobody cares, write a promo for it". 

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9 hours ago, L_W_P said:

They look kinda like Heyman guys. Would keep Roman/Joe busy while Brock is away.

There was something somewhere (I am assuming it was in the WON a week or two ago) where Heyman said in an interview that if he sticks around without Brock he only wanted to do it to be with Rousey or Reigns

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