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[NXT] APRIL 2018 DISCUSSION


RIPPA

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2 hours ago, supremebve said:

I don't have any idea how anyone can watch that woman and see anything but a natural heel.  I'm sure she's a perfectly pleasant person in real life, but she comes off as overbearing and judgemental in all of her action.  I've noticed it from the first time I saw her.  I don't care how much time she spent serving the country, or how many adorable kids she has...that woman is a heel.  You act like we don't all know a veteran or a mother who is an asshole.

Testify! You could be speaking of my younger sister. Yes, she served her country and good on her for that, yes, she's a mother and while her son wants little to do with her, she did bring him into the world and good on her for that. Otherwise? The most unpleasant, phony judgmental bitch I've ever had the displeasure of knowing. Haven't spoken to her in over a decade and see no reason to allow the aggravation that she is into my life now. 

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Remember when folks (including Dave) castigated TNA for making thea Trinidad a heel (and anti American one to boot) given her backstory?

And now she is a super over heel, and an Hispanic one too.

Maybe something similar will be true for Lacey. 

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That was bad because she was always a heel but they had to do something concerning 10 year anniversary of 9/11 so they  interviewed her to tell her true story and how it impacted her which made her completed sympathetic.  Then about an hour after the interview she did heelish things and it just seemed so weird

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cristobal said:

The notion that "sympathetic backstory" somehow precludes heel heat is kinda disproven by like ALL OF WRESTLING HISTORY.

Well, of course; but it's how you handle it that makes the difference between a believable character and a cartoon. Imagine how Mustapha Ali would have been handled even a decade ago; dude is an ex-cop and American as I am, but has a middle-Eastern name and dark complexion, he'd have been booked as the Sheik's cousin or some such nonsense despite the fact that he is one of the best babyfaces working today.

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12 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

That's what I love about NXT house shows.  Lots of times you get to watch them rehearse upcoming Takeover matches.  A couple of years ago, we got DIY vs Revival in Houston, a couple of weeks before their match in Brooklyn.  They ran through most of the big spots and sequences from the Takeover match.  It was probably the best match I've ever seen live.

I’m still bitter I didn’t get to see Gargano/Almas a week before their classic.

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4 hours ago, supremebve said:

I don't have any idea how anyone can watch that woman and see anything but a natural heel.  I'm sure she's a perfectly pleasant person in real life, but she comes off as overbearing and judgemental in all of her action.  I've noticed it from the first time I saw her.  I don't care how much time she spent serving the country, or how many adorable kids she has...that woman is a heel.  You act like we don't all know a veteran or a mother who is an asshole.

So she's the new Nattie Neidhart.. but with a kid?

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4 hours ago, supremebve said:

I don't have any idea how anyone can watch that woman and see anything but a natural heel.  I'm sure she's a perfectly pleasant person in real life, but she comes off as overbearing and judgemental in all of her action.  I've noticed it from the first time I saw her.  I don't care how much time she spent serving the country, or how many adorable kids she has...that woman is a heel.  You act like we don't all know a veteran or a mother who is an asshole.

She's kinda like a reverse Nia Jaxx.  Everything about her story would suggest all-American babyface but she just has natural heel charisma.  Nia's size and strength suggested monster heel, but she's just never had convincing heel charisma.

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43 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

She's kinda like a reverse Nia Jaxx.  Everything about her story would suggest all-American babyface but she just has natural heel charisma.  Nia's size and strength suggested monster heel, but she's just never had convincing heel charisma.

This is kind of 100% what I mean.  The same reason I was always disappointed in how they handled Summer Rae, she had the perfect heel charisma for a heel valet.  She projected condescension on camera in a way that there was really no need to try to push her as anything else than "The Mean GIrl."  She was a round peg, and instead of finding the round hole they either kept trying to force her into a square hole or just leaving her off of television.  Remember when they were trying to depush Rusev and having him and Summer play with raw fish and other shit...but Rusev and Summer were so good at it they fucked up and got that dumb shit over?  It was because Summer and Rusev understood their characters in a way that made the fans buy into that stupid ass shit.  Nia Jaxx is a natural babyface, let her be a babyface.  Lacey Evans is a natural heel, let her be a heel.  Vince has become one of those football coaches who blames the players for not fitting his system instead of assessing his talent and building the system around that talent. 

I fully expect Lacey Evans to get pushed as All-American babyface whenever she gets called up, and I'm willing to bet she won't catch on.  She's the perfect, "I'm too good for all of you and all of this heel."  The fact that she's using the qualities that most people find admirable to fuel her superiority complex is a great hook.  We all know that person.  My sister swears her boss, who is a doctor, is trying to get back at anyone who would have made fun of him as a kid.  That is a real life thing that everyone can relate to and has a reason to dislike.  Her talent says heel, write the story to that talent.

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It's odd that we're having this discussion as VKM made his bones by doing one thing better than anyone else... He took a worker, looked at their natural personality and just had them roll it up to 11 and there was their in-ring persona. It's really hard to screw things up when they have such an organic base. Look at your great WWE creations, Shawn Michaels is an arrogant twat that thinks he's better than everyone else, Bret Hart is a self-absorbed guy who takes himself way too seriously, the John Cena we see on TV is pretty damn close to John Cena on the street, and the list goes on. Basically Vince has made his mark by building his performers around their natural personalities, that he would suddenly forget how to do this is bizarre at the very least.

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4 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

Except they pretty clearly have no idea what to do with Braun.

I think they're just putting him in a holding pattern for now... and it seems to be working for them since Braun being Braun just gets him over. It's almost like how they handle Andre back in the day (wish it was how they handle Brock now).

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16 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Kacy Catanzaro - the tiny lady from American Ninja Warrior - made her debut last night on the FL loop

She probably still has an inch on Vega.

16 hours ago, supremebve said:

I don't have any idea how anyone can watch that woman and see anything but a natural heel.  I'm sure she's a perfectly pleasant person in real life, but she comes off as overbearing and judgemental in all of her action.  I've noticed it from the first time I saw her.  I don't care how much time she spent serving the country, or how many adorable kids she has...that woman is a heel.  You act like we don't all know a veteran or a mother who is an asshole.

Its the same thing that happened to Alexa. So many were scared of her turning heel, but anyone sane could see most of her comments and mannerisms during interviews made her come across pretty natural as a heel. Lacey has that same deal in the ring.

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22 hours ago, turk128 said:

I guess it's another round of Social Media 101 classes.

 

 

Lio still wearing the dunce cap in the corner?

Speaking of Lio Rush, from a recent house show, it looks like they’re giving him a bodyguard (Babatunde Aiyegbusi) and pulling a Devitt/Fale type pairing.

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5 hours ago, Eivion said:

She probably still has an inch on Vega.

I sat in the first row on Thursday night and Kairi Sane is also tiny, like surprisingly tiny.  If she's more than five feet even, I'd be surprised.

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12 hours ago, OSJ said:

Look at your great WWE creations, Shawn Michaels is an arrogant twat that thinks he's better than everyone else, Bret Hart is a self-absorbed guy who takes himself way too seriously

Fair point but not a great example - the Hitman character was built as a classic babyface and the aspects you're referring to didn't really show up until the last year of his run.

 

5 hours ago, Eivion said:

Its the same thing that happened to Alexa. So many were scared of her turning heel

Who on earth was arguing to keep her as a babyface? She barely existed in NXT before her heel turn.

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13 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Fair point but not a great example - the Hitman character was built as a classic babyface and the aspects you're referring to didn't really show up until the last year of his run.

 

Vince as a genius has always been troubling to me.  His biggest successes are based on some astronomical talent who was going to be huge any way or stumbling into something despite his bumbling.  Hogan was going to be a star whether or not Vince pushed him or he would have stayed in the AWA, he was clearly the next big thing at that point.  HHH was supposed to win the King of the Ring that lead to Austin's push, but he was being buried because of the curtain call.  The Rock is legitimately a movie star, who Vince tried to push as a bland "Blue Chipper."  Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, John Cena, all stars in their own right, but those aren't the dudes who make you look like a genius.  The people who make you look like a genius are the guys who you were too good to fail no matter how hard you tried.

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21 hours ago, OSJ said:

Well, of course; but it's how you handle it that makes the difference between a believable character and a cartoon. Imagine how Mustapha Ali would have been handled even a decade ago; dude is an ex-cop and American as I am, but has a middle-Eastern name and dark complexion, he'd have been booked as the Sheik's cousin or some such nonsense despite the fact that he is one of the best babyfaces working today.

His first week on 205 Live saw him booked as a heel, citing people judging him due to his skin colour, before they thankfully wised up and made him a face the next week.

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I'm certainly not drinking the VKM is a genius Kool-Aid, just pointing out that in general, despite all his bombast and showmanship, he really understands (or maybe he doesn't understand, but just does out of repetitive behavior) something that good writers (like me) know and utilize: "less is more" when building a character. That's what VKM has been pretty good at, letting  wrestlers be themselves cranked up to eleven. Mick Foley, rather than the sinister western caricature of "Cactus Jack Manson" is the lovable daredevil that we've come to know. Edge and Christian are the endearing goofs capable of behaving as though they're still in high-school. In most cases, it's a matter of Vince staying the hell out of his own way, something that Stephen King as great as he is, has yet to learn to do in a novel. The real stars in the business are going to break out one way or another despite how they're booked. The examples of Hogan, Rock, and Cena are instructive, they were going to be huge no matter what. I don't buy VKM as genius, but more often than not, he's capable of a restraint that is surprising considering his personality.

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11 minutes ago, Sky Blue Sam said:

His first week on 205 Live saw him booked as a heel, citing people judging him due to his skin colour, before they thankfully wised up and made him a face the next week.

Yeah, don't know who caught that and said "Whoa!" but kudos to whoever it was. The guy's offense is total baby, his looks, demeanor, everything about him except his ethnicity and name scream BABYFACE. Thank God we've grown past the time where he would have been forced into a heel role simply because he was "different".

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8 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

FWIW (and billed heights aren't worth much) Zelina is billed at 5'1". Kacy is 4'11"

I know her billed height. Its almost certainly bullshit. During Vega's short tour with Stardom, Kairi made a comment at the end of a show about how tiny Vega was which led to her and Hiromi Mimura (supposedly 4'10) comparing heights. Its been a while, but I want to say they were about the same.

5 hours ago, supremebve said:

I sat in the first row on Thursday night and Kairi Sane is also tiny, like surprisingly tiny.  If she's more than five feet even, I'd be surprised.

She is supposedly 5'1.

5 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Who on earth was arguing to keep her as a babyface? She barely existed in NXT before her heel turn.

No one sane.

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Whoever was creating the babyface women at that time definitely had a weird thing going.  You had a delusional woman who thought she can dance and loved popping bubbles,  the childlike superfan who loved hugging and the Disney cosplaying fairy glitter princess.

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