UFC 223: Khabib vs. Iaquinta (4/7/2018) - Brooklyn, NY (Barclays Center)

[TheVileOne]

Dana White's already softening in his outlook on Conor McGregor based on the post-fight press conference.  

Nothing is going to happen to McGregor. He's going to sign some checks. He's going to get a legal slap on the wrist. And Dana White will be booking him in a UFC fight as soon he can get it together. 

[Jiji]

September probably. UFC! UFC! UFC! 

[evilwaldo]

13 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Dana White's already softening in his outlook on Conor McGregor based on the post-fight press conference.  

Nothing is going to happen to McGregor. He's going to sign some checks. He's going to get a legal slap on the wrist. And Dana White will be booking him in a UFC fight as soon he can get it together. 

Like I said, they are owned by a Hollywood entertainment company with Hollywood stars as owners.  They care more about the entertainment value above anything else.  Dana is just a mouthpiece for the owners right now.

 

It would be nice if the UFC writers called out the new owners but I doubt it.

 

A few years from now, we will look back at this moment and realize it was the moment when UFC turned from a fighting promotion to an entertainment promotion.  Entertainment was always a part of it but now it is the overriding concern.  It is more about the 'see the train wreck' promotion than building the actual fight.

[Hail Sabin]

Simple guideline never believe anything Dana says because after all "women will never fight in the UFC." 

[evilwaldo]

Things change.  Would they have Women's divisions if not for Rousey?  Hard to say if and when they would have started.

 

 

 

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

52 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

Things change.  Would they have Women's divisions if not for Rousey?  Hard to say if and when they would have started.

 

 

 

 

Showtime wasn't going to do women's boxing. Carano took off and they still didn't do it and Gary Shaw was an actual boxing promoter. Ronda takes off in the UFC and Showtime finally broke down and did a few fights and here there with Amanda Serrano and now Claressa Shields. Katie Taylor and few other females get their clips shown if they win by stoppage. Nobody is fully committed to do it, but it's clear without Rousey, no one in women's pro boxing would even get that far.

UFC at the time was in era where they were in a position where they could take a chance on a Ronda Rousey. If she looks terrible, then they can leave it alone and look elsewhere. This is different than old crabby Bob Arum having Mia St. John and Laila Ali on PPVs and trying to bankroll a Lucia Rijker vs. Christy Martin fight for 3/4 of a million dollars. Arum was trying his damnedest to present those events to a mass audience. That's why you also had Butterbean appearances, and Jim Lampley having to seriously call a Butterbean fight. The problem is if you present your cards as a circus with various attractions, people can't seperate it from the authenticity of pro wrestling. This is an example of why Dana and Lorenzo were adamant about not being pro wrestling (even with a giant wrestling nerd like Joe Silva as the matchmaker) and for awhile wanted to separate themselves from that. A lot of the mid 90s to early 00s boxing felt so much like pro wrestling atmosphere wise because everything had to feel like a giant event. There is a reason why most of the PPV/gate records pre Money Mayweather were in that timeframe. So when people talk about what's sport and entertainment and what UFC/MMA is, either they don't understand the context of what they're watching or they like to pretend sport and entertainment magically have never overlapped.

[evilwaldo]

I agree with what you are saying.  For me, there has always been an overlap between entertainment and sport like a seesaw.  With all of the latest blowups, it appears as though we are fully on the entertainment side.  If this was one of the big four sports, there would be ramifications for Conor's actions.  Now, along with the other events, there are no ramifications because it will sell more PPV's.  The only reason Jones got suspended was because of the USADA, not because it made the UFC look bad.

The entertainment owners are looking at this as 'all press, no matter how bad, is good press.'  

The problem is the more blowups they have the less the sport looks like real fighting and the more it looks like a circus or wrestling.  Everyone will be trying to put on a show leading up to their fights for attention and it risks turning the UFC into a clown fiesta.

If we get blowups with every PPV, at what point do people ask 'Is the UFC out of control?'

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

40 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

I agree with what you are saying.  For me, there has always been an overlap between entertainment and sport like a seesaw.  With all of the latest blowups, it appears as though we are fully on the entertainment side.  If this was one of the big four sports, there would be ramifications for Conor's actions.  Now, along with the other events, there are no ramifications because it will sell more PPV's.  The only reason Jones got suspended was because of the USADA, not because it made the UFC look bad.

The entertainment owners are looking at this as 'all press, no matter how bad, is good press.'  

The problem is the more blowups they have the less the sport looks like real fighting and the more it looks like a circus or wrestling.  Everyone will be trying to put on a show leading up to their fights for attention and it risks turning the UFC into a clown fiesta.

 

I will go back to what I said here not too long and that is UFC's only competitor is basically "bad" UFC as opposed to the hot "good" UFC with Bellator being a distant third. By that I mean their success is not cyclical as it is in that moment (or what have you done for me lately). As a hardcore fan, I couldn't give a damn if the fight sells a million plus or just 100k on PPV. I get excited about great fights as much as I do about fights that are intriguing in a different way that will sell big. In era where people constantly talk about the creation of stars/draws (I believe Setsuna mentioned this) and lack thereof, I more worried about getting the great fights because stars are fleeting. However, I know that the UFC does need stars and it's why they make their efforts to create stars. The problem is there is no tried and true way to create stars and then help them maintain that level of superstardom. Max Kellerman when he came to HBO on every broadcast talked about "cash cows" in reference Pacquiao and Mayweather. Then for a year and a half to almost two years, boxing didn't have a "cash cow" and damn near PPV tanked hard. The boxing was still entertaining even with seemingly more lackluster and average fights than before w/ more "fake" titles and uninspired promotion than ever before. We got a bunch of how to fix boxing and is boxing dead stories. Then, out of nowhere, we can start talking about cash cows again and who sells PPVs and sells out arenas and stadiums.

People seemed to not understand that if stars drive what the sport is (especially in combat sports), everything will be built around that infrastructure no matter if it seems like pro wrestling angles or the sport itself. Folks didn't want to attend Floyd Mayweather fights for ELEVEN years. If you a had top prospect the NFL and NBA consistently underperform that long, he would be automatically compared to Sam Bowie and Ryan Leaf. You had that Sharmba Mitchell fight sponsored by Jordan Brand in Portland near the Nike HQs where you had Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods in attendance who had to be there for brand synergy and a shitload of empty seats. Two years later, he is Money Mayweather and the hottest thing ever. All the stuff he has been involved in has made him bigger or more famous. I don't think that made boxing fully entertainment when you understand what the infrastructure is of the sport is. Boxing exists enough so the sport can support a Floyd Mayweather who doesn't sell jackshit and just a P4P stalwart and a Floyd Mayweather who can do a highly profitable freakshow fight with someone from an entirely different sport. Both of them exist in the same world. Once MMA went slightly into the mainstream, that's what we were looking at. There is a ton of resentment for Floyd, a lot of deserved and a lot of it undeserved, but that's what comes with stars in the sport.

You don't want folks to get special treatment, but at the same time, you want titles to mean something, new stars, and meaningful fights? If MMA existed in a vacuum, it would be no bigger than Real Pro Wrestling and Slamball or Lingerie Football. You don't have to accept anything, but please know what greases the wheels and has been since 1993. If you want something more pure, go watch fencing or the Scripps National Spelling Bee.

[evilwaldo]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Blah blah blah.  Contemptuous and mindless drivel.

No need to be condescending.  If you want to hold an adult discussion, I will wait for you to be an adult.   

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

No need to be condescending.  If you want to hold an adult discussion, I will wait for you to be an adult.   

??? 

What I was saying isn't necessarily directed at you.We've been having variations of this topic in multiple threads for several months. Also, what part is condescending? Are you drunk? 

[TheVileOne]

9 hours ago, evilwaldo said:

Things change.  Would they have Women's divisions if not for Rousey?  Hard to say if and when they would have started.

 

 

 

 

I mean when you play the what if game who knows.  Ronda Rousey and her style definitely spearheaded that movement. But if Gina Carano was still a thing, Dana White definitely would've set things up for her because Carano was a Superstar and Dana White was always complimentary of her. But Rousey changed a lot of people's minds about women in combat sports.

FYI, there wouldn't be a women's revolution in WWE without Ronda Rousey.  The former "Divas" have even said this.  Rousey wasn't pro wrestling at the time but she proved women can be top pay-per-view draws and people wanted to see women like that fight. Before that, Vince McMahon was repulsed by the idea of female MMA. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

I mean when you play the what if game who knows.  Ronda Rousey and her style definitely spearheaded that movement. But if Gina Carano was still a thing, Dana White definitely would've set things up for her because Carano was a Superstar and Dana White was always complimentary of her. But Rousey changed a lot of people's minds about women in combat sports.

FYI, there wouldn't be a women's revolution in WWE without Ronda Rousey.  The former "Divas" have even said this.  Rousey wasn't pro wrestling at the time but she proved women can be top pay-per-view draws and people wanted to see women like that fight. Before that, Vince McMahon was repulsed by the idea of female MMA. 

I think people knew Carano was an average fighter though. You can take a chance on a Rousey because she was proven she was somewhat legitimate (albeit in a nonexistent division). Carano was basically five or six levels above Kimbo. If all Ronda could beat was Sarah D'Alelio and Julia Budd type opponents, but got beat by fighters slightly better than that, there would be no female MMA in the UFC for awhile. I think the best case scenario would be all the fighters going to Invicta when Strikeforce goes under and then the UFC does a talent raid like they eventually did with Invicta. However, it would get pushed like a redhead stepchild until they proved themselves to be a commodity.

Carano would eventually become what PVZ is now except at 135 if she ever could managed to get down to that weight. As much as Ronda hates media, you can still push her out there because people want to talk to Ronda. You cannot push Carano and VanZant out there because they don't know how to deal with media or people in general. I remember Jordan Breen telling a story of when he was covering a Fox show in Chicago and saw Paige's interaction with some woman who recognized her causing Paige to pretend the lady got her confused with someone else and just scurried away as fast as she could across the street. Carano is that level of socially awkward too. I think that has attributed to Gina's acting career plummeting as much as not being able to act. If you're white and pretty in Hollywood, they will find you work in Hollywood. However, they cannot hide you once people know you suck and you don't have the connections to stay relevant despite that. So once the MMA buzz died down, all she could do is be Katee Sackoff lite and show up in Deadpool and a Fast and Furious film as a bit player. She hasn't had an MMA fight in almost a decade and that's what she has to show for a career outside MMA since the Cyborg fight. That and dating Superman and Kevin Ross.

Even though there was a connection between Carano's dad and the Ferttitas, all Gina would be able to do is get beat by Ronda in 45 seconds and head right back into doing direct to DVD films. While Ronda is an extremely poor loser, but she at least gave MMA shot before heading into doing something else. Once Gina got semi hot, she already had one foot out the door. The UFC couldn't do anything with her or have some sort of long term plan.

[J.T.]

For an event with a lot of fights that went the distance, this card was rather satisfying.

[Elsalvajeloco]

8 hours ago, J.T. said:

For an event with a lot of fights that went the distance, this card was rather satisfying.

It helps when the card length got cut by 2 1/2 hours.  

[J.T.]

13 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

It helps when the card length got cut by 2 1/2 hours.  

True enough.