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APRIL 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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2 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

How do wrestlers work a match together when they don't speak each other's language?

I'm not a worker but I imagine most wrestling moves/spots are universally understood no matter the language. 

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3 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

How do wrestlers work a match together when they don't speak each other's language?

Few years back at an Elev8 Pro so saw Steve Anthony and Pentagon Jr going over their match before the show. Pentagon speaks a bit of english and Steve speaks pretty much no Spanish. They used hand gestures and body language to work out the match. 

 

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3 hours ago, Omega said:

Triple H is Lex Luthor and planning on taking over the world

 

 

Glad to see this being put into practice finally. Remember the idea was first rumoured back in the mid-2000s when the first draft was in full swing but they would be actual WWE territories with their own champions etc etc

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9 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

Jericho has said in his books in dealing with Japanese wrestlers move names are generally given and universally understood in English.

I remember Jericho also saying that a lot of the Japanese wrestlers spoke Spanish so he was also able to communicate with them that way.

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Listening to Corny break down '93 booking on his podcast regarding SMW and WWE. Fascinating stuff, as always. However, with Cornette being so open about his politics (which is fine), hearing him talk about the racial angles he wanted to do with Tammy and Tony Atlas, and talking about riling up the "hayseeds and rednecks in the small towns" and riling the passions of all the yokels SMW drew it makes me start to think that this dude really didn't have a lot of respect for Southern wrestling fans. 

I dunno...it's just weird to listen. It's cool Cornette is progressive and liberal but he made his money on the same people whose politics he trashes every show. It all just strikes me as kinda awful in hindsight. 

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3 hours ago, Hagan said:

Listening to Corny break down '93 booking on his podcast regarding SMW and WWE. Fascinating stuff, as always. However, with Cornette being so open about his politics (which is fine), hearing him talk about the racial angles he wanted to do with Tammy and Tony Atlas, and talking about riling up the "hayseeds and rednecks in the small towns" and riling the passions of all the yokels SMW drew it makes me start to think that this dude really didn't have a lot of respect for Southern wrestling fans. 

I dunno...it's just weird to listen. It's cool Cornette is progressive and liberal but he made his money on the same people whose politics he trashes every show. It all just strikes me as kinda awful in hindsight. 

When Cornette is discussing the intricate details and background to old angles, wrestlers, promoters, etc. it is fascinating. When he goes on political and religious rants it’s the worst. 

 

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I think while Cornette does appreciate the fans a bit he mostly just saw them as marks to be tricked out of their money. That attitude, while understandable, taints any old school kayfabe stories a lot of times. I mean why should I find con artists and hucksters lying to their paying customers enjoyable?

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What did you guys think about bixs deadspin article about the Saudi thing? I saw one on the ringer too but I don't know who wrote it. It's not like I disagreed with his points or anything, but I've been getting kind of bummed out with the (pretty warranted) negativity lately with the Saudi thing and then the moolah thing before that etc. Anyway, yesterday my girlfriend wasn't home and when she came back I was checking out Lynn vs Lightning Kid on hidden gems on the network, and she walked in right when x pac kicks Lynn when it's his turn to be down in the amateur position, and she's like "oh that was REAL" and I was taken back to a simpler time

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1 hour ago, quackhell said:

I think while Cornette does appreciate the fans a bit he mostly just saw them as marks to be tricked out of their money. That attitude, while understandable, taints any old school kayfabe stories a lot of times. I mean why should I find con artists and hucksters lying to their paying customers enjoyable?

That's a beloved Americana archetype. 

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2 hours ago, quackhell said:

I think while Cornette does appreciate the fans a bit he mostly just saw them as marks to be tricked out of their money. That attitude, while understandable, taints any old school kayfabe stories a lot of times. I mean why should I find con artists and hucksters lying to their paying customers enjoyable?

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3 hours ago, quackhell said:

I think while Cornette does appreciate the fans a bit he mostly just saw them as marks to be tricked out of their money. That attitude, while understandable, taints any old school kayfabe stories a lot of times. I mean why should I find con artists and hucksters lying to their paying customers enjoyable?

I think you are viewing it the wrong way. Cornette would view tricking or lying to the fans as knowingly putting on a bad show. Or intentionally having bad finishes.

Pro Wrestling to work properly and time has proven this.* The promotions and performers need to treat it as real. If the fans see this, they are willing to play along and invest. This creates an emotional atmosphere which makes the shows better. It is better for the art this way. 

I don't think Atlas being black was the primary motivation for wanting him paired with Tammy. On the show he said it primarily a combination of him still being a draw in the Northeast and how one could perceive him as a big dumb guy. Looking at what did happen. Corny did not go and find another black wrestler for Tammy to manage. He instead too Brian Lee (who he described as being a big dumb guy) and put him with her. 

*  WWE does worse financially the more they fracture this atmosphere. They can only really draw a few times a year. Having to charge more money to less people. Even if you go back to the Attitude Era, they tried not to fracture the reality of the shows if possible. Austin, Rock, Hunter and Taker try to be true to their characters in media interviews. Or you go to the eighties boom and the guys tried to stay true to their characters. 

If you look at the current indy "boom". Most of these promotions cannot draw like SMW did and run a regular schedule. SMW's big shows drew better than any of the super indies do. Even a company like PWG has to do like WWE and charge more to less people. 

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1 hour ago, quackhell said:

That is true and works when isolated on it's own in a work of fiction, but when it is so completely tied to an artform I love it is problematic for me.

You're right. It's an issue. Distance matters. I hate saying it but it does. It's just easier to give 70s/80s stuff a pass. Proximity, too. I don't want to watch a Benoit match but I'm totally willing to tell people that Invader I was one of the best sellers at all time, who just got it on a level that only a handful of other wrestlers ever did (hey, that's probably half of how he got away with it! See).Or, you know, the whole Jim Breaks thing.

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I've actually got a pet project of assembling newsletter info about SMW dating back to 1992, and it's been pretty fascinating.  But one thing that caught my eye: Cornette wanted to put Tammy with the Gangstas.  Meltzer's line was that she decided against it "because she wanted to live to see her 22nd birthday."

On another note, Tammy was so insanely good as a heel at her age.  It's such a shame how things ended up in general.  She should've been the next Sherri, not the first Sable.

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