Jenalysis Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Juice/Tana delivered. Great story match, very good wrestling match. Juice deserves to be over Elgin in the pecking order after this (well before this too, but Juice really impressed tonight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What an f'n match that was. Juice just keeps growing and growing. Kelly losing his mind after the finish was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Juice has become the absolute poster child for getting out of the WWE system if you stall out. I mean, I figure there's a good chance he eventually goes back, but he's so much better now and if he does, he'll have so much more behind him. He was just a guy in NXT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said: Juice has become the absolute poster child for getting out of the WWE system if you stall out. I mean, I figure there's a good chance he eventually goes back, but he's so much better now and if he does, he'll have so much more behind him. He was just a guy in NXT. People usually name Cody as an example, but there always are arguments made about his last name and that he got in Bullet Club. But Juice really was nobody in NXT, if he can make it then pretty much everyone can do it. That is, if they got the talent and work as hard as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 So much great narrative in this match. Honestly, I was actually a little disappointed Juice didn't go after the leg or biceps once Tanahashi was in full on jerk mode but perhaps they're saving such a learning curve for the G1. The dynamic in this match was crystal clear from the opening bell though. The experienced Ace in his element not there to make friends but to get back on his perch against the unsure upstart who doesn't want to lose his innocence against his mentor. The handshake, the lack of clean breaks, air guitar after chain wrestling, the "dirty work"... All perfect. Only thing was, as hard as Tanahashi tried, he couldn't turn the crowd. I don't think he ever went full bore for it, so I don't consider it a failure of the story. And you could really see in Juice's face that he grew into the match. His initial look of reservation turned into resolve. Fantastic match. Samurai tv feed had Taichi on commentary. :/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: Well it's between me and @Sublime in the pick it bracket. I'm a point up, we both have Tana winning, but he has SANADA in the finals. (I had Ibushi) so I guess ZSJ vs SANADA will decide it for us. Which ever it goes at least Michigan will be taking the win. I haven't been able to keep up on the Cup as much as I want to, things have been too hectic, I haven't even gotten around to watching Naito/ZSJ yet but it's been interesting following the results. ZSJ is getting a really strong push and I'm totally unsure as to the outcome of his match with SANADA. Will he go over both Naito and SANADA or will SANADA be able to do what Naito could not? I'm really intrigued. My main concern for SANADA is that I don't see him vs Okada happening again so soon while I can def see Okada/ZSJ so Zach winning puts the cup finals more of a question mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, Oyaji said: Only thing was, as hard as Tanahashi tried, he couldn't turn the crowd. I don't think he ever went full bore for it, so I don't consider it a failure of the story. And you could really see in Juice's face that he grew into the match. His initial look of reservation turned into resolve. Fantastic match. I think that's a really good read on the situation. Tanahashi wasn't heeling per se; he just needed to win, and has enough experience to know you can't afford too much empathy in those situations. The crowd understands this too, and so the chants are a confirmation of sorts: "It's ok, we understand and we still support you. We're also really invested in seeing you go back at Suzuki or Okada." Juice played it really well also. You could see fleeting moments where he wonders where the underdog support is, but he doesn't waste too much time begging for the crowd to flip--he just gets back to work. It's weird, because the matches aren't that similar, and of course their characters are totally different, but this all reminded me a bit of Jay White's WK performance. Both he and Juice wrestled as young guys fighting against Tanahashi as an archetype rather than a person; Jay literally shouted "Show me the Ace", and Juice wanted to face the same, not an injured older man. Contrast that with Suzuki, who A) Doesn't idolize anyone, and B) Sees torture as both the means to an end and a reward itself. It will be interesting to see if Tanahashi brings a vintage Ace performance against Okada, should that match happen. He would lose, of course, because his artillery is just lacking at this point. But would showing he could withstand a real barrage be enough of a victory? I don't think so. Not for the title, and his streak. I'd expect this more "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" version of Tanahashi to show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 The black tights is more than just an aesthetic choice at this point too. The showbuckle video on the Okada/Tanahashi feud did a marvellous job of highlighting how Tanahashi very quickly threw out ideals to try and keep his spot at the top. The Black Ace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 If Tana loses vs Okada, I can see him getting a few months off to heal up and coming back as a special attraction, especially since the top of the NJ card is getting crowded. He's too big a star to ever just be a dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 So no one thinks ZSJ would beat Tanahashi in a hypothetical final? Keep in mind Tana owes him a win... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, Pete said: So no one thinks ZSJ would beat Tanahashi in a hypothetical final? Keep in mind Tana owes him a win... Why he owes it? But yes, in my opinion it is not out of a question, but at the same time I'd say that it is something like 90/10 in Tanahashi's favour. Also, random thought after today's show. That tag match where Okada and Suzuki had a face off with belts raised. Now if I'm not mixing up continuity - Tanahashi defeats Nagata to tie his record and sets new record at WK by beating Suzuki. Now Okada can tie Tanahashi's record by beating him and Suzuki is in good position to challenge Okada who would set a new record by also beating Suzuki. Parallels are there. But wait, there is more. Tanahashi said that he wants to challenge the black belt while he is holding the white one, but instead of him it would be his old "friend" doing that which would add some more fire for their eventual match and Tanahashi's revenge. In other words I'm thinking that next two challengers might be Tanahashi and Suzuki. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 31 minutes ago, Pete said: So no one thinks ZSJ would beat Tanahashi in a hypothetical final? Keep in mind Tana owes him a win... Well, they're even. Sabre beat him in the G1, then Tana defended the IC title against him. I think @Archibald has the trajectory right. Zack could certainly win, but part of me thinks they've built him both because Suzuki-gun, rather uniquely, doesn't have a viable lieutenant, and to lampshade Tanahashi's "obvious" win. That is, if we begin to think "They're giving him this huge push, so certainly it isn't just to lose in a final"... maybe that's what it is. Tanahashi and Suzuki as the next defenses would have tremendous narrative heft and crowd heat, and would also save younger guys from taking a(nother) loss in such a high-profile match. To @alstein's point, it will be interesting to see what Tana's twilight looks like. Barring catastrophic injury, no one goes away as relatively young as he is. While he's done being on top, and is--perhaps--too big to ever open cards in mixed tags, there's no reason he couldn't have another ten years as a babyface version of Suzuki's late career run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Fujinami comes to mind. He won the G1 and the IWGP belt in his early forties, then was champ again at 45. Never fell off that hard, put in respectable tournament showings, picked up some tag belts. The stylistic legacy of Fujinami -> Mutoh -> Tanahashi has always been able to adapt with age. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Mutoh seems like the best comparison, though I can't see Tanahashi ever leaving NJPW except as part of some sort of agreed loan similar to how Nagata is used. I don't see Tanahashi getting another run with the belt for the next few years given the strength of NJPW's top and upper midcard unless they want to not have Okada break the defenses record. That's another unique factor, NJPW is a lot stronger talentwise now than when Mutoh/Fujinami were in their early 40s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just getting caught up on the tournament and, God damn, I've never been the biggest Sabre fan but he is bringing it in this. That final submission sequence on Ibushi was great. And count me in on the Juice train. Dude stood toe to toe with Tanahashi and looked good. That in and of itself is an achievement. I forget how good New Japan can be and this is a good reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 NJPW Sabre is great. This is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Seriously. From his first match against Shibata, he's been fantastic. Though I enjoy him pretty much everywhere, I do think he's at his best in NJPW. Lance Archer making the little boy at ringside cry is pro wrestling AF. What a beaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Everybody is sleeping on the fact that JUICE WON THAT MATCH. He clearly got a 3 count after he hit his High Fly Flow. This was a Korakuen screwjob by Red Shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 17 hours ago, Archibald said: People usually name Cody as an example, but there always are arguments made about his last name and that he got in Bullet Club. But Juice really was nobody in NXT, if he can make it then pretty much everyone can do it. That is, if they got the talent and work as hard as he did. And Cody was a multiple time tag and IC champ, a solid midcard guy. Juice was an undercard guy in NXT. I love Cody, but his situation was significantly different. I didn't know he'd be this successful, but you had to know he'd do fine on the indies just by his name and star level. But Juice? Juice man... I had no idea he had anything close to this in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It wasn't NJPW that did anything other than give him a narrow opportunity. Juice being Juice is what made it work. He had the unique charisma and developed the skills to make it work. The best thing ever to happen in the past 17 years in pro wrestling has been the revival and slow global expansion of NJPW. If it can bring up a viable 2nd American promotion (or if NJPW becomes it)- wrestling will be back to where it was in the late 90s. It's going to take years of greatness to do this. They don't have to beat WWE, they just have to be a viable place for Americans to become stars and financial success the level of Omega and Juice. I may not think Omega is as great as the rest of the internet thinks he is, but he's done more for pro wrestlers in general than I think anyone realizes right now. I hope to tell him that in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Does @Casey know Bad Luck is sitting in with Kevin on commentary tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 aaaand I just re-subscribed to NJPWorld. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 The finals are gonna be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Amazing promo work by Taichi: Anyway, time for finals. On one hand Tanahashi should really win it, but on the other hand Zack got a rocket on his ass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 That was phenomenal storytelling. First ten minutes saw SANADA continually frustrate Zack's superior technique with athleticism and power matched with strong enough technique. SANADA isn't a dummy either, so he would've come prepared to deal with Zack's early groundwork and seemingly had an answer for everything. The next ten minutes saw a pissed off ZSJ start to pick away slowly at SANADA's arms with strikes, starting with the Pele kicks to each arm, that then allowed Zack to gradually grind down SANADA's arms with holds. SANADA could still rely on his high flying attacks as his legs were never really targeted. However, the arm work paid off to the point the Skull End couldn't be fully realized, leaving Zack with a clear path to victory. It wasn't an action match, but I think it was perhaps both men's smartest worked match I've seen. Milano wearing a SANADA paradise lock shirt... Love that man so much. Anybody else pop at how Zack says "submission"? SABmeeshun. With the next couple of days off before the final, I'll finally catch up on the prelim matches from the past 3 or so shows. The cup matches have exceeded expectations and it really has been like a single elimination G1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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