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NJPW STRONG STYLE EVOLVED (aka the US Show)


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42 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

To win the belts over and over and never get a single successful defense apparently.

Plus apparently for nobody to give a shit about them. For as strong as they were pushed on their return, the fans aren't really buying into them. Crickets were heard during their run-in last show.

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It's gonna take a while to rebuild the Jr. tag division without the Bucks anchoring it. They'll have to rely on Bushi/Hiromu to do it, but they need more teams. Since they already have 3 native teams, they can bring in some gaijins without bloating.

 

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RPG3K is odd, in that they’re both technically good, and seem reasonably charismatic (Yoh moreso); but they were stuck as Young Lions for approximately twenty years, which might say something, and the whole act is super corny/manufactured. I mean, they’re pop idols + fitness, so that makes sense, and might even be somewhat intentional, but still...

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It's all Rocky's fault. O_O

Sho looks like a miniature version of young Tanahashi, down to the the somewhat bowl haircut, and he's got good fire. Yoh may have like an ounce more charisma but I'd be surprised if a company that relies on the female demographic with their hunks at the top of the card (did you see Chuck's botched hunk power rankings?!) doesn't end up pushing Tanaka more in a few years.

hiroshitanahashi.jpgtanaka-392x523.jpg niisan!

If you can't get to a "good enough" level in New Japan working with and learning from the best talent in the world, you're hopeless. They'll figure it out. You guys nailed why they're lacking a connection with the crowd and if we can see it (and Omega's talked about them having everything handed to them and not initiating enough for themselves in one of his more ornery/honest moments), Gedo and co. likely can see it.

 

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I appreciate Chuck’s attempt at ranking, botched or no, and Zack’s emphasis that he’d tap everyone out if he wasn’t distracted by how handsome they were. I guess he managed to focus.

There’s probably an interesting essay to be written examining why a certain cross section of “hardcore” fans loves New Japan—who absolutely does pander to the female gaze quite a bit—but hates it when WWE pushes anyone they assume benefits from good looks. That’s a really superficial way to look at it, and I know endlessly comparing the companies is reductive and exhausting, but since we’re talking about them already—and they really are a good example of the phenomenon—WWE isn’t sending any tag teams to do anything like this for women’s fashion mags.

Also, glad this is cleared up:

 

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Handsome boys in NuJapan come in as good-to-great workers thanks to the dojo system, whereas traditionally Vince will push somebody primarily because of their looks with their in-ring ability an afterthought, and often times at the expense of somebody that doesn't quite have the size or look he likes but is a superior wrestler. I agree though, there is hypocrisy at work but I believe there's also a distinct difference. 

And I'm surprised that WWE isn't more blatantly pushing male sex appeal to pull in more females.

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Me too. They're both guys that I'm confident can look decent or better with really good workers who put the match together. But I have no clue if either of them are capable of putting one together themselves.

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I think that NJPW has a bit of a problem with Jr. divisions in general. Problem being that Hiromu is more over than anyone else, by big margin. Lesser problem, but problem nonetheless is that Bushi is probably also in TOP 5 as far as reactions and merch goes (when he enters the ring they often show some people from audience wearing his masks while I don't really see, or at least don't remember seeing, it for other juniors). He is essentially a pin eater, but still is more over than many semi-protected guys in other factions. I remember in last BotSJ he got strong crowd support when facing Suzuki-Gun juniors and not playing a heel for once. And from what I recall year earlier his main event with Kushida was considered a success in terms of attendance. But either way it is easier to justify non-push with Bushi, because Hiromu is better and is in the same faction.

So why is that a problem? Because both Jr. division are built in very simplistic manner: champion(s) is on big shows and is rotating challengers. If you give a long run to Hiromu (which he totally deserves and should get) then everyone else will struggle to get over since Juniors only really have BotSJ to build themselves up. Case in point, what Kushida is up to? Is he also moving up to heavyweights? Would make sense since they clearly have no space for him in Juniors division. When was the last time that Junior got a special singles match? I don't really remember and it is happening now with Ospreay (who is champ either way) only due to injury. How often Juniors get feuds that are more than "I want your title" feuds? So easy answer for NJPW here was to make Hiromu/Bushi a tag-team and give some space for other Juniors to get themselves over. But is any other Junior getting himself over? From the looks of it only Scurll is having some momentum due to being involved in Bullet Club drama.

But now Jr. Tag division is having same exact problem. Ropongi 3K might be good, have their own hype man and get strong booking, but reality is that neither of them is as over as Hiromu or even Bushi. On one hand they are clearly being pushed and built-up as Aces of Jr. Tag division, but on the other hand audience doesn't really care because they want Hiromu/Bushi. So they do this 3-way thing where they try to protect everyone, but I'd argue it isn't doing any good to anyone either. Furthermore it is even harder for Jr. Tag teams to get themselves over since all they really have asides of championship matches is Tag Tournament which gives a team, at most, 3 matches. Oh, they also might get to face Taguchi/Young Lion in opening matches. That will make them look strong.

Alternatively we have Naito who lost title match at WK, but still is heavily featured on each card, has something to do and at the same time is giving enough space for other heavyweights to breath. Or how KES managed to get few, relatively speaking, decent tag teams to destroy to build themselves up for a rematch with Evil/Sanada. Or how few years ago Tanahashi managed to keep himself busy with Devitt and newly created Bullet Club.

tldr; NJPW needs to change how they book their Junior divisions or Hiromu will continue overshadowing everyone else. Alternatively they can push him down into trios division...

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Hiromu's trajectory will be interesting. @Archibaldis right that he basically outshines the whole junior division, and so it always feels a bit odd/artificial when he's not the focus. And, while this will sound cliche, he certainly has the presence of a heavyweight, if not precisely the stature. During the build to WK and in its aftermath, I seem to remember he and Okada getting some featured segments in tags, and the crowd loved it every time; he certainly didn't feel too small, or otherwise out of place. So while he would tie Ishii for shortest heavyweight on the roster, at a billed 5'7 (four inches shorter than Ibushi, but not so pathologically lean or <Booker T voice>jacked</Booker T voice> either), I'm not sure it matters. I do think there are some indications Kushida might make the move first, though, if only because he doesn't have much more to do as a junior. (Not that that always matters.)

As a counterpoint, dude has the junior title in his visa photo, so maybe he's really attached:

 

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The problem with NJPW, and generally promotions with Junior/Cruiser divisions is that if you look at NJPW's Heavy singles titles (Yes, even if NEVER is "Open"weight, it's a heavy titile), the US Champ makes the Junior Limit, and the IC and NEVER champs are a good weight cutting day away, and the Heavy champ is 15 pounds over.  And the next challenger and winner of the Heavy cup is 187 lbs.  If ZSJ and Ibushi are working heavy and most of the title holders are within the limit, what's the point of splitting them.  You can argue that the heavy's work differently than the juniors with the dives and flippy shit, but you think the Bucks are adjusting style when they start working heavy tags?  

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I honestly feel like the days of New Japan having a junior division aren't long. To look at how they've always booked juniors vs. Heavies like there's always been a huge gulf in class, particularly in the Choshu era would suggest otherwise of course. But, with Gedo at the helm and more and more juniors moving up to heavyweight, and globally the rise of the small guy peaking... I don't know. 

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I’m pretty sure the junior limit is 205 now.  I know Cody has been talking up how the Bucks are heavyweights because they’re 206 now.

Just looking at the title history, it’s been a long time since anyone over 200 got the singles belt.

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New Japan doesn't seem to value the junior belts much, but I wonder if they'd be hesitant to lose the BOSJ tournament? The yearly touring is pretty structured, and that's an opportunity to give some of their heavies a break from headlining. (The worst idea I'm unreasonably fond of is a soft weight division that goes like this: <180 = Junior; 180-220 = Junior or Heavy; >220 = Heavy.)

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2 hours ago, EVA said:

I’m pretty sure the junior limit is 205 now.  I know Cody has been talking up how the Bucks are heavyweights because they’re 206 now.

Just looking at the title history, it’s been a long time since anyone over 200 got the singles belt.

I think that was more of a reference to WWE's 205 Live than to NJPW. And as far as NJPW goes, I don't think really talk much about what is their actual weight limit? Also, I remember reading in one of the Lion Marks articles that they talk about Junior and Heavyweight distinction more in terms of class than in some specific weight.

 

14 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

 (The worst idea I'm unreasonably fond of is a soft weight division that goes like this: <180 = Junior; 180-220 = Junior or Heavy; >220 = Heavy.)

NEVER title could be used, I think, well for that 180-220 bracket, but NJPW looks to be allergic to that.

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21 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

New Japan doesn't seem to value the junior belts much, but I wonder if they'd be hesitant to lose the BOSJ tournament? The yearly touring is pretty structured, and that's an opportunity to give some of their heavies a break from headlining. (The worst idea I'm unreasonably fond of is a soft weight division that goes like this: <180 = Junior; 180-220 = Junior or Heavy; >220 = Heavy.)

If you conflate the divisions and treat at least some of the newly promoted "juniors" as stars, they could rotate guys in and out of tours. It would slow down acts from becoming stale too.

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There’s quite a bit of talk here about the junior/heavy distinction; we’re also given a pretty good idea how the match will probably go (*the back*); also, rather hilariously, Ibushi kinda dismisses the Omega/Okada trilogy, saying he had better matches with Kenny years ago.

 

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9 hours ago, EVA said:

I’m pretty sure the junior limit is 205 now.  I know Cody has been talking up how the Bucks are heavyweights because they’re 206 now.

Just looking at the title history, it’s been a long time since anyone over 200 got the singles belt.

Offically, the Jr Tags are 220.  While I think they said years ago that the Jr Singles was 225, it's pretty accepted that the Singles matches the tag at 220.  

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10 hours ago, Oyaji said:

If you conflate the divisions and treat at least some of the newly promoted "juniors" as stars, they could rotate guys in and out of tours. It would slow down acts from becoming stale too.

I know people very often write that WWE should have off-season or rotate guys, but has any wrestling company ever really tried to do that?

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New Japan's already doing it at a very light level, but mostly with foreigners. I can't think of any off the top of my head but there was always stuff like Otto Wanz's promotions back in the day where they'd have round robins and rotate guys in and out after a while.

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5 hours ago, Raziel said:

Offically, the Jr Tags are 220.  While I think they said years ago that the Jr Singles was 225, it's pretty accepted that the Singles matches the tag at 220.  

Specifically, it was 100 kg.

 

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Context: At the SSE presser, Jay White said Page, not Brandi, is “Cody’s bitch”, and only has his spot because of it. Then...

On one hand, cool, a match between two guys who allegedly don’t deserve their spot! On the other, they’re probably gonna try really hard to prove that they do, and I’m ready to be impressed. (Anyway, people really do get shooty in New Japan, don’t they?)

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