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Fight Kits, USADA, TV Rights Fees, & Fighter Union Table Scrap Chaos (Bones is Back in Town)


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So if Jones isn't purposefully cheating how does he know about all these cheaters to help expose them to USADA?

I don't feel bad for Tom Lawlor. Dude was a mid-level UFC fighter. Had a couple decent wins. Did a bunch of goofy crap to get the fans to like him, but he was never that good. 

Also, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Jones gets away with so much garbage doesn't mean it's wrong that Lawlor or Frank Mir didn't. 

Pre-USADA all the groaning was that cheating was rampant in the industry and widespread at a high level and that 80 percent was doing it. 

Whenever someone failed a random test, the media was quick to point fingers at the UFC for not doing anything about it. They did something about it, and now they've apparently gone too far, and you have Luke Thomas saying steroids don't do anything. A view he never expressed pre-USADA.

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On 9/21/2018 at 5:03 PM, TheVileOne said:

They did something about it, and now they've apparently gone too far, and you have Luke Thomas saying steroids don't do anything. A view he never expressed pre-USADA.

This isn't at all what Luke Thomas thinks about steroids.  He thinks the USADA thing is bullshit, but it's not because steroids don't work.  It is because USADA's rules are completely and totally arbitrary and aren't really doing anything to fix the problem.  He acknowledges that there is a problem, but thinks that the way we drug test as a society is causing more problems than it prevents...which is a valid stance.

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On 9/26/2018 at 10:09 AM, supremebve said:

This isn't at all what Luke Thomas thinks about steroids.  He thinks the USADA thing is bullshit, but it's not because steroids don't work.  It is because USADA's rules are completely and totally arbitrary and aren't really doing anything to fix the problem.  He acknowledges that there is a problem, but thinks that the way we drug test as a society is causing more problems than it prevents...which is a valid stance.

Luke Thomas said that PEDs violating the spirit of the sport is a non-starter for him and is bankrupt.  Pre-USADA, he was never advocating minimal testing. 

 

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Luke Thomas said that PEDs violating the spirit of the sport is a non-starter for him and is bankrupt.  Pre-USADA, he was never advocating minimal testing. 

 

I'm someone who is kind of in the middle on this, so let me just state my thoughts instead of my interpretation of someone else's thoughts.  Doping is bad for sports, especially a sport when you are punching people in the head, but the arbitrary way we look at what is and what isn't OK is nonsensical.  The way we test is nonsensical, and a violation of the athlete's rights, their privacy, and basic human decency.  USADA and any of the other anti-doping agencies haven't really done anything to eliminate the amount of doping going on.  They may stop one or two people every now and then, but then again they'll decide that someone who has failed multiple tets didn't intentionally use this time and give them a slap on the wrist.  So, I think doping is a problem, but I think that the way we try to catch people doping is a bigger problem with more negative consequences than the doping itself.  

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52 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I'm someone who is kind of in the middle on this, so let me just state my thoughts instead of my interpretation of someone else's thoughts.  Doping is bad for sports, especially a sport when you are punching people in the head, but the arbitrary way we look at what is and what isn't OK is nonsensical.  The way we test is nonsensical, and a violation of the athlete's rights, their privacy, and basic human decency.  USADA and any of the other anti-doping agencies haven't really done anything to eliminate the amount of doping going on.  They may stop one or two people every now and then, but then again they'll decide that someone who has failed multiple tets didn't intentionally use this time and give them a slap on the wrist.  So, I think doping is a problem, but I think that the way we try to catch people doping is a bigger problem with more negative consequences than the doping itself.  

Yet you have the legion of Jon Jones defenders saying he passed multiple tests and it's not enough proof that he was intentionally trying to cheat, tainted supplements, blah blah blah. Count Luke Thomas among those. 

What else can be done to improve the doping/PED issue that isn't already being done? 

Or are we going to ignore how much clickbait attention the media got out of the whole TRT era due to Chael Sonnen? 

UFC was backed into a corner by the public due to the outrage over Anderson Silva failing a random drug test. The basic gist of it was that UFC didn't really care about cheating or PEDs by not having randomized tests. A lot of it came from the MMA media. So, they brought in random drug testing. And now the dialogue is innocent fighters are getting blamed for "tainted supplements." When the dialogue beforehand was "cheating is rampant throughout this industry and everyone is getting away with it." It's fucking hypocritical BS.

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i said it at the beginning of the USADA era and i'll say it again: i miss the old days of MMA. i don't care about steroids/PEDS (if athletes choose to use that is their choice), i love freakshow fights, and i want more Pride showmanship. i also want more mix of styles in fights but chalk that one up to unattainable as cross-training has become not only the norm, but 100% necessary for relevancy.

 

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7 hours ago, twiztor said:

i don't care about steroids/PEDS (if athletes choose to use that is their choice)

So you think it should be the choice of the puncher and not the punchee, whether or not the puncher's strength has been unnaturally enhanced?  That's the problem with PEDs.  I'm pretty sure none of the people being punched are OK with the people punching them being on PEDs.

The issue I have with USADA and the other anti-doping agencies is that it violates the rights of the innocent.  Seriously, what if you had to randomly prove to the police that you aren't a criminal?  Seriously, the police could come knock on your door at 3 AM and if you don't open the door, you go to jail because not answering is the same as being found guilty.  That is pretty much what goes on with these anti-doping agencies.  The dudes who aren't doing PEDs have to prove that they aren't doing PEDs, which is flat out wrong.

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9 hours ago, username said:

 

This is pretty much inherent to drug testing though, you pretty much have to choose either this or rampant PED use.

Here's the thing, we still have rampant PED use.  None of these anti-doping agencies haven't actually stopped people from doping.  Even someone like Jon Jones, who has been caught doping multiple times, passes the vast majority of his drug tests.  We know he's doping, have known he's doping, and are pretty sure he's going to do it again...and they just gave him a slap on the wrist.  What has USADA actually helped?  

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I don’t like Jon Jones, like, at all - but I keep seeing people tear him down (like DC) for being a snitch. I mean... if he knows people who are cheating and using illegal substances... shouldn’t it be a good thing that he’s turning them in? I know he probably used that as leverage to get a lesser punishment, but still. This ain’t the fuckin’ streets, a snitch in this case would be good for the sport if his information was legit, right?

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14 minutes ago, Casey said:

I don’t like Jon Jones, like, at all - but I keep seeing people tear him down (like DC) for being a snitch. I mean... if he knows people who are cheating and using illegal substances... shouldn’t it be a good thing that he’s turning them in? I know he probably used that as leverage to get a lesser punishment, but still. This ain’t the fuckin’ streets, a snitch in this case would be good for the sport if his information was legit, right?

Nope, a snitch is a snitch...I can't respect that at all.  If you get caught up in some bullshit, and start pointing fingers and telling tales on other people when you are just as if not more dirty than them...I can't respect it.  

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2 hours ago, twiztor said:

also, did i miss an announcement where it was said that Jones turned in other people?

it seems like speculation due to a light sentence, but has anybody confirmed this?

The USADA rep who responded to Malki Kawa's interview provided info from the clause that led to the sanction reduction. Basically, you're providing info on other athletes under the USADA auspices or "support staff" (assuming that means trainers or coaches) OR the information you can provide leads to a criminal investigation. It's still ongoing so the rep didn't give that much info.

I will say this...Jon has only trained at two gyms that I know of: Bombsquad for the first year or so his career and JacksonWink. Remember when Tim Kennedy, another fighter who trained for JacksonWink for years, said he believes 75% of fighters or whatever ballpark figure he gave were on PEDs? We're talking about Tim Kennedy, who himself for a good portion of his career looked like someone from mid-80s WWF and got a lot of packages from George Zahorian. Maybe it's because Jon already had the label of snitch for years, but I felt more weirded out by that than whatever Jon is doing now as basically being an informant. Kennedy for a long time was vehemently anti-PED, but common sense from what he said meant the guys who he trains with are the ones on PEDs. And a lot of folks have been through JacksonWink in the 12 or 13 years it has been a hub for MMA fighters. Anything going on at another gym is just purely hearsay unless folks are very comfortable dry snitching to someone who goes hunting for the remains of Adolf Hitler. I don't see that happening. If Tim Kennedy did what Jon is doing now and he can do that now as a retired fighter because he doesn't have to face anyone at the gym, he won't be getting the same type of scrutiny. And to me, that makes more sense because at least he isn't backing back from what he said. But when Tim did that little dance shortly after joining that fighter union thing and then showed up at UFC media day not standing on it, that told me ALOT about Tim Kennedy. There is a reason why Leslie Smith is really the only one out here alone on that. A lot of fighters won't stand on what they say or they will only do if it directly serves them. IMO Jon ain't doing the lord's work or anything like that to clean up the sport, but based on all I know about Jon, I'm not surprised he took that route. He has never really given a damn about other fighters he trains with. When guys (including Kennedy) were talking about "I think X% of fighters are on steroids" and purposefully don't follow up, that's snitching for absolutely no reason and looking for a pat on the back from media folks and fans. You didn't do shit because this ain't WWF or real sports where everyone shares the same locker room. It's the fighters YOU train with. I'm not here for that either.

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It always seemed convenient to me that Kennedy basically left the sport shortly after USADA came in. I have no idea if he was juicing or not, but if the eye test is real, he never really passed it. You think him being one of the guys most outspoken about the rampant PED use in the sport would've been happy that UFC started a random testing program.

According to Brett Okamoto, they are not going to announce any potential failures until the matter has been resolved apparently. Not sure how well that will work, since a fighter not fighting for a while will probably make people wonder if they failed something or not. And things tend to get leaked and reported anyway. Either way, this should shut up some of the crybabies.

 

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24 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

It always seemed convenient to me that Kennedy basically left the sport shortly after USADA came in. 

He looked putrid in that Gastelum fight. And not like long layoff awful. Kennedy has always been a consistently good fighter and always competitive even before took a break from his duties in the armed forces. In his lone fight during the USADA era, he got beat pillar to post. I don't think all that is coincidental.  Gastelum is pretty good when he's on, but he ain't that good to make Tim Kennedy look like someone who stepped in as a late replacement from Xplode Fight Series. 

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