Control Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Why do I have no memory of Satoru Asako’s existence? It’s like he’s been Eternal Sunshined from my memories. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 He was that charismatic. He also spent the large majority of his career in a company that rarely aired undercard matches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Maaaaaaaaaaybe a step towards the archives landing on All Japan's streaming service? (Almost assuredly not, and aligning their current ace with that past is the closest they could get, but.) Funny and somewhat related thing: There was a bit of Wikipedia vandalism a few days ago, that stated New Japan was set to buy All Japan, mostly for the tape libraries. This of course overlooks the fact that All Japan doesn't own that footage, so... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 To help stave off my G1 hangover, I went back and watched the DVDVR Japanese matches of the year for 2007 and 2008, Nagata versus Tanahashi 4/13 and Mashimo & Madoka vs Teioh & Shinobu. It’s all relentlessly non topical, and a bit long, hence the spoiler tag. Spoiler Funny thing about the former is that it didn’t get the most first place votes... or even the second most. In that regard it finished behind a Takayama/Kobashi versus Misawa/Akiyama tag and the rather famous(ish) Sasaki/Miyamoto death match. But watching it, it’s easy to see why it placed high on virtually all ballots: it’s a relatively accessible early example of the kind of main event style New Japan would come to be know and exalted for. It is also every inch a Nagata and Tanahashi match. So, they start slow, Tana hits the leg to take control, Nagata fires back, the ascending star shows he can hang, the big suplexes start flying, and then it’s just a matter of who can get their finisher(s) first. It’s really good! And I have no doubt it blew my mind at the time. (I think I was the one vote for Nagata/Makabe, though, which I did not watch today and am not prepared to defend.) Dudes teeing off on eachother with palm strikes, landing on their heads, kicking out at one... but it falls victim to the same thing that happens to all popular art and entertainment, and I found myself wanting a twist on a formula that was just getting established. Pretty unfair, but! the fascinating thing is, they innovate themselves by October, and produce a better match. Cagematch rankings and a quick google tells me this is nearly a consensus, that Tana winning the title back is His Moment, the better match, and I think I agree? It didn’t make the top ten, though, and I’m not sure what we were (or I was) missing. It takes all the good stuff about their earlier match, (this could be a criticism) dials up the bombs a bit higher, and crucially puts an awesome twist on their previous finish. Before, Nagata had gotten his knees up for the HFF, tried to roll Tana up, then basically finished him with backdrop drivers. Ah, but this time, Tana goes after the knee even harder, and you can see Nagata selling by trying not to sell, trying to hide it, but Tana keeps using it as a cutoff. Only this time, after the artillery stops, Tana goes for the HFF, Nagata gets his knees up... and can’t move after. Tana wobbles to his feet, Nagata still can’t get to his feet, and either can’t or won’t get his knees up—so he’s beat. This finish honestly had me losing my mind. So clever! And I’d totally forgotten it. I have way less to say about the Men’s Club tag, except that A) it’s incredible such a niche match won, even if it did finish right ahead of two Battlearts matches; B) I remember loving the Kensuke Office elimination tag, but having it behind this; C) It holds up! Perfect, simple story any wrestling fan would understand in sixty seconds and love by the end, even though it involves relative no-names: One proud older vet with his scrawny injured protege (that’s not really the right word, but) take on two guys who are immediately scary and impressive. Japanese tags have always thrived on tiers, and this executes the story you expect perfect. Shinobu sells like he’s dying, but would rather die than lose, while Teioh is just immense with the hot tags; the bad guys time their cutoffs perfectly, and otherwise basically just kick Shinobu’s taped shoulder, and try to rip his arm off. You can google it easily, and watch it if you trust the video hosting site it’s on, and get a bonus cameo by a really young Ibushi getting suggestively pinned in the opening video package, because Japanese indies were having a phase for a while there. (It is a fun reminder how much of a utter trip it is that the Golden Lovers, who would form shortly after this, are now a worldwide main event act and ~serious strong style men~. I guess DVDVR called it by giving a Men’s Club angle related tag MOTY, though.) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Beech27 said: Mashimo & Madoka vs Teioh & Shinobu Whoa, haven't watched that in forever, that one is GOOD. And so is the Miyamoto/Sasaki death match that got voted high that you mention, that's still one of those matches I've taken to people that don't watch any of this shit and was like "you have to see this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 That death match not ending with the Emerald Flowsion off the scaffold... I guess it's better than the traditional BJW trope of killing each other with all of the gimmicks then winning with a flash pinfall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: Whoa, haven't watched that in forever, that one is GOOD. And so is the Miyamoto/Sasaki death match that got voted high that you mention, that's still one of those matches I've taken to people that don't watch any of this shit and was like "you have to see this". Yeah, that tag is on my short list of favorite matches ever--which is not quite the same as "best", insofar as I don't quite know how to get my head around that concept... but, well, I spent too much time on that distinction in the G1 thread. It's great by any definition that makes sense to me, so let's go with that. I also see that Shinobu's had a run with the BJW Junior title this last year, so I need to track some of those matches down; I'm curious to see how good he still is, but I just haven't kept up with that promotion lately. There were a few other general style things that stood out, watching the Nagata/Tana matches, since I've just watched the G1 (SMALL SAMPLE SIZE WARNING): -The end-match choreography has gotten much quicker and more complex, focusing more on counters than just absorbing moves. That makes sense, given that after a while, kickouts diminish in value; the natural thing is to then avoid some of the big moves, which lands us roughly where we are now, where we get a dozen GTR/Destino/etc attempts. Not saying this is an improvement or not, to be clear, just understandable movement. -Related point: In general, it seemed the control segments were longer than we tend to get now. -Though I noted how these are examples of foundational New Japan "main event style", there's obviously some All Japan/NOAH going on, and you might even say current All Japan heavyweight style is closer to this sort of thing than current New Japan style. When people talk about All Japan having real heavyweight wrestling, I think this is the point of contrast they're making, that New Japan's heavyweight division relies on a degree of junior heavyweight freneticism, generally. -Tanahashi doesn't really, though, so this is where another sample size warning should go. One could say: Of course Omega and Naito wrestle more like Juniors, since they were, and could probably cut down easily enough if they wanted to. Although one could counter: Okada--very much a heavyweight--structures his matches around a ton of flash counters and rope running, so it's not just a size thing. -I wonder how many fans who currently revere Tanahashi were screaming for Nagata to boot his head into the bleachers? Because that seemed to be the general sentiment. Not saying that's hypocrisy; I just wonder how many of those fans are still around, and how many always pull for the veteran, hanging on. -Go Ace really is so much worse than High Energy. Like, I knew it, but still. I also watched Suzuki/Sugiura from 2015, and I'm not saying there's a causal relationship, but I definitely have a headache this morning. Goddamn. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 *forearms, punches and slaps @Beech27 987 times* You might have a little swelling later on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 14 hours ago, Oyaji said: That death match not ending with the Emerald Flowsion off the scaffold... I guess it's better than the traditional BJW trope of killing each other with all of the gimmicks then winning with a flash pinfall. Hey, I never said it didn't have overkill... Thinking about it that preceded a lot of the NJ finisher nonsense of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 New Japan has finisher overkill? I'm thinking back through the entirety of the G1 and how many finishers were kicked out of? The Kamigoe from the penultimate show, but it made sense because Kota didn't drop the kneepad for his life partner... Okada is a god and kicked out of the one HFF to his back. It had been previously established it takes more than one hff to put him down. Anything else? Both Okada and Omega didn't hit a single thing after receiving those finishers btw. The flowsion in that BJW match at least followed the King's Road tradition of while the super death kill may not get the pin, the guy is dead to rights after it, much like the ganso bomb. Still makes more sense just to end it there imo. Shit, even Jumbo had to spam like 3 or 4 backdrop suplexes by the early 90s against strong opponents and he's regarded as one of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapRef41N93W Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Yeah, I don't think NJPW has finisher overkill. What they have instead is overkill on moves that arguably SHOULD be finishers. Like, Okada won't kick out of the One-Winged Angel, but he will kick out after something blatantly more dangerous, like an avalanche dragon suplex. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The double underhook driver is another one. He should at least use it to put away the YOSHI-HASHIs of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Hell, he pinned Yano and Young Boy Jay White with a single v-trigger, only a few years ago. I kinda love how he uses it as an omnipresent match turner and/or damage accumulator against top opponents—and the “ahhhhhh” from the crowd everytime he hits it must be like a drug—but I’m not sure he can take it much further. (Though the bomaye and shining wizard both tell us super over knee strikes are never protected for long.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Wow, Irie regained the KO-D Openweight Title, returned to Japan, and then lost it to... Danshoku Dino in under two minutes?! He cashed in Super Sasadango Machine's mitb knockoff contract after Irie and Jason Kincaid (neat!) wrestled Ishikawa and Paulie in a 20 minute match. Best of all, look who came out to square up with Dino afterwards: There is a strong possibility we get Meiko Satomura as the champion heading into Ryogoku/Peter Pan in October. Fuck. Yeah. She challenges Dino on August 28th. Need to check ALL of this out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Oyaji said: Okada is a god and kicked out of the one HFF to his back. It had been previously established it takes more than one hff to put him down. Anything else? Both Okada and Omega didn't hit a single thing after receiving those finishers btw. I might be mistaken, but I think that Tanahashi never pins anyone with HFF to the back. If it is lower tier guy (or match structured in different way like that wonderful Tanahashi/Suzuki KoPW match) then he usually does one to the front and picks up the win. If it is higher tier guy (or match is more "epic" in general) then he does one to the back and immediately follows it with one to the front. I think he also usually does not attempt to pin after HFF to the back and it did in that match only because it had like 10 seconds left so he had to try since there wasn't enough time to hit another HFF and pin him. In match with Ibushi I think it was first time that he delivered 3 different HFFs in a row to pick up a win. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The thing New Japan has going for it is all their top guys (save Tana) already have to wrist-clutch in order to hit their finish. If golden era NOAH taught me anything, it’s that wrist-clutching makes finishers about 500% more effective. Kojima tweeting these at roughly the same time is an experience: His twitter is great but I’m still ready for him to return. If he’s not back in time for an MSG-wide BREAD CLUB chant, I’m gonna be really disappointed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Tanahashi kinda started doing that with Twist and Shout. Christ Charlton guy correctly pointed out that it looks somewhat similar to Okada holding onto the wrist before delivering final Rainkmaker. Granted, it is not a finisher, but when he delivers 3 of them in a row... I think it is good enough to set up the finish itself. Like, I really love that Tanahashi has multiple options for setting up HFF. I wish Sanada would have something like that too, again, drop the sleeper and just have Tiger Suplex -> Moonsault and TKO -> Moonsault as an alternative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Importantly to the context of his rivalry with Ibushi, he has set up the HFF with the dragon suplex in all three of his wins. He ducked a lariat in one to get the dragon and a head kick in the other two. Something to look out for if/when they meet up the next time. Also, Chris should absolutely go by Christ. Anybody read Eggshells yet? I'm checking out the podcast companion to get a taste and I'm liking it even if Chris isn't particularly a good podcast host. He certainly has a vast source of knowledge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Nice looking AJPW card live this weekend: Quote All Japan Pro-Wrestling “2018 SUMMER EXPLOSION”, 8/18/2018 [Sat] 18:30 @ Korakuen Hall in Tokyo () Jun Akiyama, Takao Omori, Atsushi Maruyama & Chikara vs. Masanobu Fuchi, Osamu Nishimura, Yuma Aoyagi & Gianni Valletta () Zeus & Joe Doering vs. Jake Lee & Dylan James () Asia Heavyweight Championship Match: [9th Champion] The Bodyguard vs. [Challenger] Naoya Nomura ~ 1st title defense. () World Tag Championship Match: [83rd Champions] Suwama & Shuji Ishikawa vs. [Challenegers] Kento Miyahara & Yoshitatsu ~ 1st title defense. () Jr. TAG League Match: Black Menso~re & Black Tiger VII vs. Kaji Tomato & Shiori Asahi () Jr. TAG League Match: Koji Iwamoto & TAJIRI vs. Shuji Kondo & Kotaro Suzuki () Jr. TAG League Match: Atsushi Aoki & Hikaru Sato vs. Masaaki Mochizuki & Shun Skywalke I admit I’ve only watched a couple of Jr League matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Oyaji said: Importantly to the context of his rivalry with Ibushi, he has set up the HFF with the dragon suplex in all three of his wins. He ducked a lariat in one to get the dragon and a head kick in the other two. Something to look out for if/when they meet up the next time. Also, Chris should absolutely go by Christ. Anybody read Eggshells yet? I'm checking out the podcast companion to get a taste and I'm liking it even if Chris isn't particularly a good podcast host. He certainly has a vast source of knowledge though. Being able to speak/understand and read/write Japanese while being able to talk with so many people in the business will definitely give you that level of insight. He can also understand what the Japanese wikipedia entries actually say for the really hard to decipher stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I was so disappointed when I went on to NJPW World to hit up some G1 matches from this and last year's tournaments with a friend only to find out they were in the middle of maintenance. We watched some other stuff, including JD Drake drag down WALTER in front of yet another listless EVOLVE crowd then we watched Zeus vs. Miyahara from 7/27. Miyahara was fucking hilarious playing the bratty golden boy with the over-the-top facial reactions to his heeling outside the ring. Zeus was good too, bringing his power offense (though I marked out for the rolling knee bar reversal!). We were just talking about finisher overkill and this match had a bit of it. I know it's a high-stakes match and all but I just felt the finishing stretch was a bit too monotonous with the two continually going for one of three moves for about five minutes. The slow build, in my mind, was better than the concluding fireworks. Really good match though and I recommend it if you've yet to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Look at those glasses—what a goddamn legend. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 He can't see, give the man a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Looks like a 4 man tournament for Hiromu's jr. belt. I would've liked to see Ishimori rather than BUSHI, personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Sad El Desperado doesn't get a chance would rather him than Marty or Osprey. Ishimori would have been a good inclusion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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