DECEMBER 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Craig H]

19 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

It's classic nerd fandom: when it becomes that much of their personality, if someone disagrees it's not just a differing opinion but an assault on them personally. And the more people argue, the harder they stick to their guns. There's never going to be an old timer saying "Well, I used to think it was flippy bullshit but then Meltzer made an apt comparison and Cody yelled at me on Twitter so now I think it's great!"

Don't forget about confirmation bias.

[Dolfan in NYC]

On why the WWE ring announcers have changed their cadence to not allow the crowd to chant "One Fall":

 

[Craig H]

"DAMMIT, pal! I hate when our dwindling amount of customers overspends to go to my shows and actually enjoys themselves."

[Guest Edwin]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I took it as Dave using Okada vs Omega to illustrate his point and Corny remained focused on the Young Bucks.

This was my original sentiment when I read the tweets originally.

Cornette is a guy I listen to to hear his stories from the territorial days, not to listen to his take on current wrestling because no matter what happens and how great a match is in modern times it will always fall short of anything the Midnight Express have done.

Meltzer is a guy I listen to to hear news and rumors and not because of his take on wrestling simply because I don't agree with the majority of it. He also comes across as a giant douche when you try and debate him, so it's a war that's lost before it's even started.

I also find it laughable every time Cornette says he would walk up to someone and slap them. Despite having said multiple times in the past he's not a bad ass, he does continue to try and portray himself as one, but that's not the case here nor there...

[sabremike]

I feel sorry for people who have a single solitary idea what wrestling should be and who hate anything that differentiates from it. I have literally never failed to be entertained by a Young Bucks match, and judging by the money they are drawing the public agrees. I think it's ironic that a guy who grew up on Memphis wrestling that was built on goofy and silly stuff (Lawler vs The Wolfman anyone?) could knock modern wrestling for not being real enough (and before one of you busts a blood vessel I am NOT putting down Memphis. The exact opposite actually as I enjoyed the silly and crazy stuff). And people have selective memories about some older stuff being this incredibly believable product: when they were doing the original Wrestling Gold series with footage from the 70's and 80's a lot of it they couldn't use because it just looked so bad by modern standards.

[sabremike]

Memo to WWE: Turn Rusev and English face and make them a main event act. Its like a licence to print money.

[Dog]

I think Cornette overlooked the most important thing Meltzer tweeted at him -- the Bucks' crowd control as heels. I haven't seen them live since the WrestleMania in New Jersey, and the only thing I remember about the match was their insipid air drumming while standing on the ropes. It was magnificently enraging.

[Casey]

43 minutes ago, Craig H said:

"DAMMIT, pal! I hate when our dwindling amount of customers overspends to go to my shows and actually enjoys themselves."

I see where you're going with that, but given that this board typically hates the post-WrestleMania RAW, that's a funny post.

[Craig H]

I fucking love the post-WM Raw. The crowd is only like THAT once a year and it's a nice palette cleanser after bullshit from the night before. If you're shelling out thousands upon thousands of dollars for those WM packages, then fuck it, have fun. 

Crowd chants and all that shit don't bother me. Not even the "WHAT" chant. If you're getting WHAT'ed, that's more on you than the crowd. It means your cadence and delivery needs work. We've seen wrestlers who get WHAT'ed and deal with it in the best ways possible and then other wrestlers continue on with their promo, delivering it exactly how it was written for them, and they get the WHAT chants for the whole entire promo.

[Sublime]

I find the one fall thing (and the sweeets after 2 counts) to be slightly annoying by the end of a PPV but I'll always take a loud crowd (except for what chants) over one that is silent all night long. I don't know what WWE is so against crowd engagement since the Attitude era. Like back when they took Armando Estrada's opening spiel cause the crowd was starting to go along with it, it's just silly that they after their biggest era where most of the roster face or heel had schticks that the crowd could go along with and be engaged and loud that now it's all about keeping the crowd quiet as possible. It smacks of Vince's idea that the crowd should only react to what he wants them to or he'll take that away. 

[Casey]

8 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I fucking love the post-WM Raw. The crowd is only like THAT once a year and it's a nice palette cleanser after bullshit from the night before. If you're shelling out thousands upon thousands of dollars for those WM packages, then fuck it, have fun. 

Crowd chants and all that shit don't bother me. Not even the "WHAT" chant. If you're getting WHAT'ed, that's more on you than the crowd. It means your cadence and delivery needs work. We've seen wrestlers who get WHAT'ed and deal with it in the best ways possible and then other wrestlers continue on with their promo, delivering it exactly how it was written for them, and they get the WHAT chants for the whole entire promo.

But how do you feel about beach balls in the crowd?!

[Craig H]

6 minutes ago, Sublime said:

I find the one fall thing (and the sweeets after 2 counts) to be slightly annoying by the end of a PPV but I'll always take a loud crowd (except for what chants) over one that is silent all night long. I don't know what WWE is so against crowd engagement since the Attitude era. Like back when they took Armando Estrada's opening spiel cause the crowd was starting to go along with it, it's just silly that they after their biggest era where most of the roster face or heel had schticks that the crowd could go along with and be engaged and loud that now it's all about keeping the crowd quiet as possible. It smacks of Vince's idea that the crowd should only react to what he wants them to or he'll take that away. 

It's stuff like that, or making Wade Barrett drop the Bad News stuff while still calling him Bad News Barrett because he was getting too over. If it's not that, then it's burying Zack Ryder for getting over on his own or sticking their fingers in the ears for Daniel Bryan or any number of examples that are just infuriating. 

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Casey said:

But how do you feel about beach balls in the crowd?!

Hmmm, that's a tough one. How about no beach balls.

[Casey]

3 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Hmmm, that's a tough one. How about no beach balls.

Quote

If you're shelling out thousands upon thousands of dollars for those WM packages, then fuck it, have fun. 

So does that only apply to chants then?

[Craig H]

If you have a beach ball going around, then you're watching the beach ball instead of whatever is happening in the ring. If you're chanting along, you're at least chanting because of whatever is happening in the ring.

[sabremike]

If Vince wants to get into sports and be more than just a wrestling promoter here's an idea: hand Gary Bettman a check for $700 million and bring my Whalers back. In one shot he goes from sleazy scummy wrestling promoter to all time hero who brought back a beloved team to his home state. If he did that and Linda ran for Senate I'd move across the border from Brewster to Danbury just so I could vote for her.

[Casey]

Couldn't it be said that chants of people like Punk, Michael Cole or JBL are, more or less, the same as bouncing a beach ball around the arena because they don't give a fuck about what the match is inside of the ring?

[Craig H]

8 minutes ago, Casey said:

Couldn't it be said that chants of people like Punk, Michael Cole or JBL are, more or less, the same as bouncing a beach ball around the arena because they don't give a fuck about what the match is inside of the ring?

No, because your eyes and attention are still focused on what's going on in the ring and instead of following around a beach ball.

[Casey]

You've got me on their eyes being focused on the ring, but if they're chanting for announcers or someone who isn't in the company, I don't think their attention is devoted to a match they don't care about. That's the reason they're chanting for something not related to the match, because their attention isn't focused on something they care about or want to see. It's the same with the beach ball.

[Victator]

2 hours ago, Ace said:

That's usually the case. Cornette buried the entirety of Lucha Underground based on a 2 minute clip.

Jim Cornette is such an inspired wrestling mind that nobody can remember when his booking and promoting actually drew money to give him credibility.

 

SMW drew pretty well when the business was beginning to enter a recession. In terms of the current indy boom, it drew great. OVW typically did well under him and he helped develop acts WWE relied on for years.

[The Natural]

59 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Hmmm, that's a tough one. How about no beach balls.

Cesaro approved:

[caley]

41 minutes ago, Casey said:

Couldn't it be said that chants of people like Punk, Michael Cole or JBL are, more or less, the same as bouncing a beach ball around the arena because they don't give a fuck about what the match is inside of the ring?

Or when they were chanting derogatory sexist chants to women in the ring based off of whom they were purportedly dating. 

[Casey]

Yeah I don't think anyone here is trying to defend those chants, so...

[Curt McGirt]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:44 PM, Craig H said:

Look at Bockwinkel and then look at Curt. Who is the better Mr. Perfect?

You can always go watch their matches with each other and decide. 

[Craig H]

I would much rather have the younger Curt Hennig as Mr. Perfect than someone who, to me as a kid back then, would have been older than everyone else. Like someone else said though, I have to take that info from Bruce Prichard with a grain of salt. Again, it doesn't make sense to bring in Bockwinkel solely based on his age. I can't see him doing any of the Mr. Perfect promos or getting over with any of those or looking as cool as Curt did.

Now, Bockwinkel as the Million Dollar Man is a good idea. I would be more comfortable with that swap than the Mr. Perfect swap.